Experienced Electrician! Here to Answer Any and All Growroom Electrical Questions

georgyboy

georgyboy

Active Member
ScoobyDoobyDoo said:
I agree with the post above for the most part. You need to get an electrician in there to do the work. Instead of pulling 2-3 wires into the grow room youcan just pull 1 set for a sub panel. Run your entire grow room off the sub panel and then leave the oher 2 bedrooms and the bathroom on the existing circuit. Chances are that the grow room outlets are a link in the chain so you can't just disconnect them or you will probably lose power in other rooms. That's why bringing in a seperate sub panel would be the best idea in my opinion.
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So would this sub panel provide power independent of the existing outlets? Like the outlets already in the room will still be on the original circuit, but the sub panel will be it's own independent circuit with it's own breaker and I can add new outlets in a small custom box like something you make in your first electricity class? This is more so the option I was looking for, as it keeps the wiring more at my level of experience, but I still don't really know how to run a cord all that length and keep it out of sight.
 
ScoobyDoobyDoo

ScoobyDoobyDoo

Well-Known Member
georgyboy said:
So would this sub panel provide power independent of the existing outlets? Like the outlets already in the room will still be on the original circuit, but the sub panel will be it's own independent circuit with it's own breaker and I can add new outlets in a small custom box like something you make in your first electricity class? This is more so the option I was looking for, as it keeps the wiring more at my level of experience, but I still don't really know how to run a cord all that length and keep it out of sight.
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Basically you would add a 50-100amp 240v breaker to your existing panel. Then run a line from that breaker to a small (12-16 circuit) breaker panel. Then you would use the breakers in that new panel to feed outlets for your equipment. it's pretty simple. As far as getting the wire there from the other side of the house; that's kinda hard to guess when i don't know what your house looks like or how it is setup. Can you run the wire outside and around the house and into the grow room? That might be an option.
 
Mister Black

Mister Black

Active Member
I want to make a 4 fixture CFL fitting that can hang rather like a T5. It would of course be wired to one plug. I'd want to plug 65w (real watts) CFL bulbs in there. They are pretty bulky Seeing as I live outside North America and Europe and it is relatively cheap I was thinking of hiring an electrician to make one. There is a considerable language barrier so I'll have to use drawings. I grow in a 2x2x5 tent. What kind of pictures should I be drawing and what kind of considerations should I have in this situation?
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Hey all I'm wondering if anyone here can give me a hand with an electrical problem that plagues myself and a lot of LED growers, (I must admit I didn't read the thread but I bet no one has asked this question). Seems that some LED panels will remain partially lit during lights off, which we all agree is probably not too good for the flowers or the panels :). What we can't seem to agree on is why this occurs. Some say it's the room's wiring. That old outdated wiring causes this. And for the record I have very old 2 wire ungrounded outlets. Some say it's digital timers that cause this and using analog timers will fix this, though I've had it happen on both kinds. Some say that the panel itself is grounded improperly, which I believe too. In my situation the only way to fix it is to connect the ground to a small nut and bolt that is connected to one of the PC cooling fans that many LED manufacturers use. The problem with that solution is if I touch the panel during lights off the diodes will faintly glow, and yes the nut and bolt connection is isolated from the case. I've tried to connect it to different parts of the panel's metal casing but it doesn't work all the time. Or could it be the drivers/transformers that LEDs use? That cheap ass drivers are continuously sipping power?
So to all you electricians out there, before I or anyone give themselves a case of cardiac arrythmia electrician-smiley-emoticon.gif, what the hell is causing this behavior in some panels? I don't think the DIY light makers suffer from this, (or they're not saying perhaps ;)), but lots of LED growers, usually with Chinese made panels, have this problem. So anyone out there have an idea to what's really going on? Is there one common thread to this problem? Or is it several? Thanks RIU.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
Hey all I'm wondering if anyone here can give me a hand with an electrical problem that plagues myself and a lot of LED growers, (I must admit I didn't read the thread but I bet no one has asked this question). Seems that some LED panels will remain partially lit during lights off, which we all agree is probably not too good for the flowers or the panels :). What we can't seem to agree on is why this occurs. Some say it's the room's wiring. That old outdated wiring causes this. And for the record I have very old 2 wire ungrounded outlets. Some say it's digital timers that cause this and using analog timers will fix this, though I've had it happen on both kinds. Some say that the panel itself is grounded improperly, which I believe too. In my situation the only way to fix it is to connect the ground to a small nut and bolt that is connected to one of the PC cooling fans that many LED manufacturers use. The problem with that solution is if I touch the panel during lights off the diodes will faintly glow, and yes the nut and bolt connection is isolated from the case. I've tried to connect it to different parts of the panel's metal casing but it doesn't work all the time. Or could it be the drivers/transformers that LEDs use? That cheap ass drivers are continuously sipping power?
So to all you electricians out there, before I or anyone give themselves a case of cardiac arrythmia View attachment 2467449, what the hell is causing this behavior in some panels? I don't think the DIY light makers suffer from this, (or they're not saying perhaps ;)), but lots of LED growers, usually with Chinese made panels, have this problem. So anyone out there have an idea to what's really going on? Is there one common thread to this problem? Or is it several? Thanks RIU.
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What you are experiencing is called " floating ground/neutral". This occurs when the potential between the "hot" and the "neutral/ground" is not large enough to isolate the power during "off" conditions. This is a potentially hazardous situation and will cause numerous issues with any device that uses this power. You need to verify your grounding from your incoming power and make sure it is sound at all points( even the power company's service to the home). You can add another ground rod and tie it to the ground bar in the panel. Make sure that your neutral/ground bar is bonded securely to the incoming ground and all meter connections are secure as well.

Certain foriegn electrical equipment is manufactured to be able to run on "dirty" 50hz power and that causes all kinds of harmonic imbalances on older 60hz american equipment such as your panel. If you have an old analog mutimeter, such as a Simpson 260, you can see the issues that this causes, a regular digital multimeter ( fluke) is incapable of reading this.

If a device does not turn all the way off when the power is turned off, that is an avenue for a severe electrical mishap, either to the equipment, you, or both.

What happens is the power from other devices in your home are utilizing the neutral in the "off" equipment as a return path to the panel. Remember, electricity is as lazy as things get, it will always choose the path of least resistance. That is why the bulbs in that fixture seem to glow even tho the power is off. Make no mistake, if you get between the two, you will get the full load of what is trying to utilize that path.

Hope this helps

Peace and Safe Grows

Asmallvoice
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Thanks ASV, +rep to you for that answer. I had a feeling that the potential for a disaster was there. Looks like I gotta find an electrician to come in but I guess I'm gonna have to break down the flowering tent for that. What's the fire potential for the situation I'm in? I would hate to hurt anyone. Thanks again.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
Thanks ASV, +rep to you for that answer. I had a feeling that the potential for a disaster was there. Looks like I gotta find an electrician to come in but I guess I'm gonna have to break down the flowering tent for that. What's the fire potential for the situation I'm in? I would hate to hurt anyone. Thanks again.
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The fire potential I see would come from an electrical device being "starved" for a return path to ground. Electricity only disapates in the form of heat. You can find out where the imbalance is originating from by systematically unplugging devices 1 at a time throughout the home untill you see the "glow" disappear from the led light. That has about a 95% chance of being successful. If the issue is on the power company's side, the "glow" will remain even after everything in the house has been unplugged or the breaker turned off( stove, a/c, heat and the likes that have no plug that is easily accessible). Then I would look into contacting the power company and have them verify things on thier side of your service ( faulty meter, loose ground or even a bad transformer could be the culprit)

Peace

Asmallvoice
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Wow ASV you've given me a lot to think about. What did they say about ignorance again? It's bliss until you get shot through your tent in a blaze of glory, right? LOL Thanks again. I'll have to check back in when I get the ball rolling on this.
 
L

Lucius Vorenus

Well-Known Member
We are considering ordering 2 of these. We built our own for our last room but think we want something like this and its gonna end up cheaper anyway.

Anyone used these?

 
ScoobyDoobyDoo

ScoobyDoobyDoo

Well-Known Member
Lucius Vorenus said:
We are considering ordering 2 of these. We built our own for our last room but think we want something like this and its gonna end up cheaper anyway.

Anyone used these?
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sounds like you guys know what you are doing...will be 5x cheaper to build your own. 2x cheaper to have an electrician build you one.
 
Sincerely420

Sincerely420

New Member
So I know this might be a long shot, but figured I'd try here given that I've already passed twice on a fan speed controller due to reading negative reviews.

But basically I bought an 8" duct fan, and ducting because I have an 8" in-duct ozone generator, and the fan is EGREGIOUSLY LOUD!
I have this fan, but it moves 420CFM rather than the advertised..But I have the EXACT same duct fan

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Inch-400CFM-Duct-Fan-Booster-Inline-Cool-Air-Blower-Vent-F006-/270851294585?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0ffec579

My question is...Is there anyone out there using this duct fan with a fan speed controller? I've read that both the ones you can find on Amazon don't work(via Amazon reviews)
I dont have but like $35 invested in this fan so I'm not stressing about it. I'll just use it for now when I need to, but I'm looking for any fan speed controller that's universal and will work with duct fans. This fan is 120v 42w 60htz.

Thanks in advance if ANYONE has any help regarding this issue :joint:
 
E

Evo8Emperor

Well-Known Member
Ok so I'm pulling to much power in my grow room and I am looking to run a sub panel into it. I am pretty capable and have wired in my own 220v breaker for a welder before. I also build houses for a living so I have an idea.

My main question is just what gauge wire should I be looking to get to run about 25'. I want to run it as 220v to the sub panel if possible and from there run 220 and 110 sockets where I need.

I am going to be looking to run at a max of about 4-5k watts in lights. Then there's a couple water pumps, air pumps, and fans. So you figure maybe a max of about 6k watts. Oh and a a/c.

What size breaker should i get for my main panel ?

What size and how many breaker's should I get for the sub panel ? I'd probably like to run about 4-5 sockets with 4 plugs on each if that makes a difference which I think it would. lol.

On a different note I get to run that wire underneath my apartment through a crawl space that all dark and nasty. lol. Luckily its there so I think I will have a easy time just snaking the wire down and back up. While not having harmed the interior and when I leave I can just disconnect it and pull it out.

Thanks guys.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Evo8Emperor said:
Ok so I'm pulling to much power in my grow room and I am looking to run a sub panel into it. I am pretty capable and have wired in my own 220v breaker for a welder before. I also build houses for a living so I have an idea.

My main question is just what gauge wire should I be looking to get to run about 25'. I want to run it as 220v to the sub panel if possible and from there run 220 and 110 sockets where I need.

I am going to be looking to run at a max of about 4-5k watts in lights. Then there's a couple water pumps, air pumps, and fans. So you figure maybe a max of about 6k watts. Oh and a a/c.

What size breaker should i get for my main panel ?

What size and how many breaker's should I get for the sub panel ? I'd probably like to run about 4-5 sockets with 4 plugs on each if that makes a difference which I think it would. lol.

On a different note I get to run that wire underneath my apartment through a crawl space that all dark and nasty. lol. Luckily its there so I think I will have a easy time just snaking the wire down and back up. While not having harmed the interior and when I leave I can just disconnect it and pull it out.

Thanks guys.
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At a minimum, a 60 amp main, run with #6 or you could bump it up to 70 and go with #4. Copper prices fluctuate regularly so it would be worth the effort to shop around a bit. but that would give you plenty of power and keep things cool and balanced in the process as well as a bit of room for future addons, like a dehumidifier, small heater and the likes.

Peace and Safe Grows

Asmallvoice
 
E

Evo8Emperor

Well-Known Member
Thank you very much ASV. Just to clarify one other thing though. As for the other breakers in the sub panel what do I go with and how many plugs can be run off each ?

I'm guessing I would need to check my power ratings on lights, pump, and fans and just add it up and make sure I'm not over doing it in amperage and wattage for each breaker ?

Like for example if I want to go with 4 plugs sockets on each outlet where each one would need to be able to handle 1 light, fan, pump, and say a a/c or dehumidifier. This way each tent will be run off there own breaker. Say like 30amp breaker's for the 120 sub panel outlets and a 40amp for the 220 sub panel outlet ?

Oh and I should be getting a 70amp double pole breaker so i can run it as 220 to the sub panel as well right ?

I'm thinking it would be nice to run outlet as 220v in the 4 outlet box. This way I can plug the lights in as 220 and cut down on some amperage and be a little safer. Plus I have plans on picking up a nice dual outlet 600 light that needs 220 as well.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Evo8Emperor said:
Thank you very much ASV. Just to clarify one other thing though. As for the other breakers in the sub panel what do I go with and how many plugs can be run off each ?

I'm guessing I would need to check my power ratings on lights, pump, and fans and just add it up and make sure I'm not over doing it in amperage and wattage for each breaker ?

Like for example if I want to go with 4 plugs sockets on each outlet where each one would need to be able to handle 1 light, fan, pump, and say a a/c or dehumidifier. This way each tent will be run off there own breaker. Say like 30amp breaker's for the 120 sub panel outlets and a 40amp for the 220 sub panel outlet ?

Oh and I should be getting a 70amp double pole breaker so i can run it as 220 to the sub panel as well right ?

I'm thinking it would be nice to run outlet as 220v in the 4 outlet box. This way I can plug the lights in as 220 and cut down on some amperage and be a little safer. Plus I have plans on picking up a nice dual outlet 600 light that needs 220 as well.
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Try to have the lights on one breaker and all the incidental equipment ( fans, water and air pumps) on another so as to keep the load down and not rely solely on one breaker serving a entire crop. You can loose a light and get away with it for a spell, lose the pumps and air and the crop could be lost in a hurry.

Other than that, you are definently heading towards a bad ass grow room.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice
 
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Evo8Emperor

Well-Known Member
Ok. Yah I got ya. Good idea. I wasn't thinking along those lines yet. lol. That would have popped up later and I'd be re-working things. lol.

Thanks again ASV. Now I just need to get some money together this week hopefully and get that done. Still just spending, spending, spending and nothing coming in from the room sucks. lol. Just working still trying to get it all started again.
 
ASMALLVOICE

ASMALLVOICE

Well-Known Member
Evo8Emperor said:
Ok. Yah I got ya. Good idea. I wasn't thinking along those lines yet. lol. That would have popped up later and I'd be re-working things. lol.

Thanks again ASV. Now I just need to get some money together this week hopefully and get that done. Still just spending, spending, spending and nothing coming in from the room sucks. lol. Just working still trying to get it all started again.
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Yea, getting setup took me the better part of 5 months before I popped the first seed. I must have reworked the venting and automation like 5 times before I was content, but I have mid level ocd and I give myself more grief than anything else..lol

Peace

Asmallvoice
 
smellzlikeskunkyum

smellzlikeskunkyum

Well-Known Member
So i hope someone gets this msg kinda quick... Ive never used a magnetic ballast before.
I recently hooked up my 1000w light which came with a magnetic switchable ballast.

I went into my flower area today, and the light was off :( after looking at the timer. i realised the power to the recepticle i used must have somehow stopped. just the one too... im honestly not suprised by this. my house is super badly wired up and i would be pushing it had i got any more lights.

MY MAIN PROBLEM and or question: My magnetic ballast is not only making that humming noise but if u put your ear near it, it sound almost like a sizzle noise is coming from inside of it? wtf!? is my ballast not supposed to be making that noise?? im worried about it.
 
smellzlikeskunkyum

smellzlikeskunkyum

Well-Known Member
im wondering if there could have been some sort of intermitten feed of electricity and that would maybe cause my ballast some sort of damage to make that noise?

I also have a 600 lumatek set up that isnt giving me ANY problems. its only the magnetic ballast. and it hasnt even been messed with at all, i dont understand why the noise started.
 
smellzlikeskunkyum

smellzlikeskunkyum

Well-Known Member
this might sound dumb... but should i smell smoke if something inside the magnetic ballast is shorting and/or grounding out and sparking?

i dont smell any smoke at all. but im convinced that the noise sounds like electricity. ugh... it sux cuz the house is really badly set-up. so im so damn paranoid now... im considering un-plugging the stupid 1000 and finding someone who can open it up and check it out. am i on the right track here?

it just blows ass cuz this is disturbing my setup so badly. having both of the lights on is important to my temp control and all, the area is not heated. so im reluctant to unplug the 1000 cuz its working just fine except for the noise. but i have no idea why the original recpticle i was using all of a sudden is dead.

if i drew too much power wouldnt i have blown a fuse/breaker?? the house being wired bad makes this part complicated. i dont know that something from the recepticle going out is the reason the ballast is making noise? is that even possible? it doesnt seem like it... but im no expert with electricity. only know the basics.

im embarrassed: i even won a competition for auto-electrical like 10 years ago, go figure i didnt keep with it and now i cant even remember half of it. :(
 
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