CourageToGrow
Well-Known Member
Just wondering if FLIR can go through concerete? And if it does diminish the affect by how much? If anyone knows please share! Thanks
Eyes In The Sky
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cackpircings
Well-Known Member
This is not my words but the words of a smart man.
The source: http://www.1stmarijuanagrowerspage.com/how-to-grow-marijuana-3.html
As far as the person who got busted when the power company or the police helicopter "detected" their grow lights, most of these tales are ones that the fascists would be happy to have you believe. As for power consumption, many residences use lots of electricity for many different reasons including cannabis creation. There is no way that anyone can detect anything through the power lines. As far as the Infra-red thermal imaging (heat sensing) technology that a minority of law enforcement have available, this device can only measure the temperature of an outside surface like the roof or a wall. High powered lights get quite hot so they tend to make warm spots, but if your lights are in any well insulated space like a basement, they may not even show up at all. Also if there is attic space above the grow room, the outside roof temperature would not be affected because the air in the attic acts as an insulator. One notable exception to this rule would be any warm exhaust air flowing out of the room directly to the outside. On a heat-sensing device this would appear as a large fountain. This can be avoided by exhausting into another room (attic, garage, etc.) or up a chimney, instead of directly to the outside.
But listen carefully, students, this is the twist that they want you to miss- In either case, it is a moot point because if they are using these techniques on you, then you are already under investigation. If you are already under investigation, it probably wasn't anyone who you don't know that "detected" you, get it?
I think that this concept is the underlying point and theme of this whole book. It cannot be stressed or understood enough that your main problem as a smart grower will definitely not be law enforcement figuring it out by themselves.
Jails are chock full of people who would give up their own mothers to get out. Police forfeitures generate lots of money that they can use to encourage criminals on the outside to be narcs. Tip lines ring off the hooks, deluged with calls from people brainwashed with drug-war hysteria, who think they heard a rumor or smelled something just slightly out of the ordinary. Cops bust naive kids with a pipe or a bowl, and then threaten them with anything that will get them to squeal. These are just a few of the ways that modern law enforcement tries to deal with the responsibility of having to find and imprison otherwise normal Americans for something as common and benign as eating donuts. The fastest ways. The least expensive ways. The easy ways.
The source: http://www.1stmarijuanagrowerspage.com/how-to-grow-marijuana-3.html
As far as the person who got busted when the power company or the police helicopter "detected" their grow lights, most of these tales are ones that the fascists would be happy to have you believe. As for power consumption, many residences use lots of electricity for many different reasons including cannabis creation. There is no way that anyone can detect anything through the power lines. As far as the Infra-red thermal imaging (heat sensing) technology that a minority of law enforcement have available, this device can only measure the temperature of an outside surface like the roof or a wall. High powered lights get quite hot so they tend to make warm spots, but if your lights are in any well insulated space like a basement, they may not even show up at all. Also if there is attic space above the grow room, the outside roof temperature would not be affected because the air in the attic acts as an insulator. One notable exception to this rule would be any warm exhaust air flowing out of the room directly to the outside. On a heat-sensing device this would appear as a large fountain. This can be avoided by exhausting into another room (attic, garage, etc.) or up a chimney, instead of directly to the outside.
But listen carefully, students, this is the twist that they want you to miss- In either case, it is a moot point because if they are using these techniques on you, then you are already under investigation. If you are already under investigation, it probably wasn't anyone who you don't know that "detected" you, get it?
I think that this concept is the underlying point and theme of this whole book. It cannot be stressed or understood enough that your main problem as a smart grower will definitely not be law enforcement figuring it out by themselves.
Jails are chock full of people who would give up their own mothers to get out. Police forfeitures generate lots of money that they can use to encourage criminals on the outside to be narcs. Tip lines ring off the hooks, deluged with calls from people brainwashed with drug-war hysteria, who think they heard a rumor or smelled something just slightly out of the ordinary. Cops bust naive kids with a pipe or a bowl, and then threaten them with anything that will get them to squeal. These are just a few of the ways that modern law enforcement tries to deal with the responsibility of having to find and imprison otherwise normal Americans for something as common and benign as eating donuts. The fastest ways. The least expensive ways. The easy ways.
CourageToGrow
Well-Known Member
Yea well except for the fact that they actually do bust people this way. and I do concur with all of those statements. And I will continue my sweet setup by the way because I am not stupid like all the noobs on here by talking up a grow.
It was just a curious thought. No need to be a dick. I read the 3 not 8 pages. But ive said my peace.
Peace and Love and Happy Growing
It was just a curious thought. No need to be a dick. I read the 3 not 8 pages. But ive said my peace.
Peace and Love and Happy Growing
Jonus
Well-Known Member
When you say 'this way', are you referring to the cops using FLIR or to FLIR seeing through walls.
You read 3 out of 8 pages, so missed the answer to ur question which had been answered a few times over in this very thread, then because you couldnt be arsed reading the other 5 pages, just asked the question again to waste someone elses time other than your own, and youre calling me the dick. Thats a bit rich mate.
CrackerJax
New Member
In the end law enforcement confiscates and prosecutes a small percentage of growers. I say growers because possession charges are different from grow ops.
Does FLIR work? Of course it does. What is it used for? Many things..... not just for weed. So it is still possible for a FLIR heli to fly over and not be looking at you.
Any bust gets a lot of press to justify the cops budgets, and yes, to wage psych war on the rest of the growers....
That all being said, Ppl are more likely to be concentrating on the heli's and forget to pay the electric bill......... it'll be something mundane or stupid which gets people busted.
And the money goes round and round....
out.
Does FLIR work? Of course it does. What is it used for? Many things..... not just for weed. So it is still possible for a FLIR heli to fly over and not be looking at you.
Any bust gets a lot of press to justify the cops budgets, and yes, to wage psych war on the rest of the growers....
That all being said, Ppl are more likely to be concentrating on the heli's and forget to pay the electric bill......... it'll be something mundane or stupid which gets people busted.
And the money goes round and round....
out.
CrackerJax
New Member
foot taps impatiently (crosses arms and sighs)....
out.
out.
born2killspam
Well-Known Member
The problem with safety due to warrants is the fact that they don't need the FLIR data in court if they simply use it underhandedly to identify you then investigate further for court accepted evidence..
The police really hate having their hands tied.. They know how to work the system.. A recently retired cop I know said that they used to stake-out known drug houses until they were positive it was vacant, then they'd stage a break-in call, enter legally, and serendipitously find a grow-op, or dealing-op or whatever..
As for the specific signatures given off by plants, that is picked up by different technology than the flir in the photo's linked in this thread.. That device would need to filter the vast majority of wavelengths, so they would not be able to detect lights etc (which is their bread&butter).. They use that technology when they're looking for giant outdoor plots, but the cheap equipment just amplifies a broad range of wavelegths and shifts it into the visible spectrum..
Where I grew up, everybody heats with wood stoves.. Alot of houses there would look pretty suspicious..
The police really hate having their hands tied.. They know how to work the system.. A recently retired cop I know said that they used to stake-out known drug houses until they were positive it was vacant, then they'd stage a break-in call, enter legally, and serendipitously find a grow-op, or dealing-op or whatever..
As for the specific signatures given off by plants, that is picked up by different technology than the flir in the photo's linked in this thread.. That device would need to filter the vast majority of wavelengths, so they would not be able to detect lights etc (which is their bread&butter).. They use that technology when they're looking for giant outdoor plots, but the cheap equipment just amplifies a broad range of wavelegths and shifts it into the visible spectrum..
Where I grew up, everybody heats with wood stoves.. Alot of houses there would look pretty suspicious..
cluch
Well-Known Member
a little off subject but some here say the copters can identify a single plant grown out side using these devices wich i say is a myth.sure it maybe possible but fesible i dont think so.has any one heard of the heat or infered being used to spot a plant..
if u have a 1/2 acre garden i say yes..i could see that to during the day flying around
with my eyes just as the coppers. but a plant here and there glowing on thier screens at night like a person standing in a field ive seen no pics of this or read about it..
if u have a 1/2 acre garden i say yes..i could see that to during the day flying around
with my eyes just as the coppers. but a plant here and there glowing on thier screens at night like a person standing in a field ive seen no pics of this or read about it..
born2killspam
Well-Known Member
Approaching harvest season they have limited resources for the task at hand.. The last thing they want to do is take notice of single plants..
Identity detection is useful because they can spot large crops from further away than with eyes alone.. That method would be just as successful in a plane..
In reality single plants are hardly at risk from the sky.. If they're hovering a chopper 6' off the ground scanning your property/area then they must have already had information, and at that point it really doesn't matter what technology they have..
The vast majority of crop hunting is done by cops with binoculars just looking out the window..
Identity detection is useful because they can spot large crops from further away than with eyes alone.. That method would be just as successful in a plane..
In reality single plants are hardly at risk from the sky.. If they're hovering a chopper 6' off the ground scanning your property/area then they must have already had information, and at that point it really doesn't matter what technology they have..
The vast majority of crop hunting is done by cops with binoculars just looking out the window..
autotek500
Well-Known Member
They can't see trough your walls or into your basement,contrary to some previous posts .And they cannot pick up heat sigs coming from your plants....this is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard ...The heat signature comes from heat escaping from windows and such.......Use high output full spectrum cfl's and you don't have to worry....end of story
autotek500
Well-Known Member
They are able to spot outdoor plants with a special filtered lense that makes Ganja show up a brighter color than other plants.......
born2killspam
Well-Known Member
Signatures are only effective for finding outdoor plots, not indoor.. Indoor crops are really easy to find with flir though unless its really well engineered.. Only two problems with that though.. Laws, and false-positives.. I shouldn't have said they're easy to find.. A better way to put it would be to say its easy to find homes that pretty definately do not have grow ops, and the rest will vary in the level of suspicion based on heat layout/intensity etc..
overfiend
HeavyMetalHippie
this is true. some plants give off more energy than others while growing. a plant that is very healthy would give off more energy than a plant that is weak. so when they use this technology they see the well taken care of weed plants as brighter spots than the weak vegitation surrounding them.
Jonus
Well-Known Member
All they use is infrared imaging. As plants begin to come to the end of their life cycle, in other words, as they fill up with bud, their infrared color changes from red to bluey green.
This is a signal that either the plant is sick, or is not absorbing as much red spectrum light as before due to yellowing of leaves as it matures. A field or small patch of weed looks like that under thermal imaging or any infrared sensitive imaging system.
This of course is also true for any field or patch of plants that are either sick, or matured and at the end of their life cycle. So to the effectiveness of finding outdoor grows, even then its hit and miss but becomes more and more likely as plants mature if you have planted your plants in patches or fields.
Since the police are well aware that grow rooms with air cavities between the inner room and the outer wall, and are vented correctly are impossible to see under FLIR then that statement is not correct.
Most professional grow ops, as in, the ones on the top of their list, are never seen via FLIR devices.
Most houses during winter months have unexplained heat blotches in various places around the walls and roof area. Many houses have dryer vents, aircon vents and stove top vent fans. These will all give heat signatures on outer walls.
That is not to even mention what an internal fireplace looks like on the outside walls.
Which is why there are not scores of police trolling streets looking for strange heat blotches. They would be raiding 80% of houses in every street.
FLIR is a secondary tool purely for manufacturing the grounds for search warrants. Who cares if the heat blotch ending up being a clothes dryer parked against a wall, in the end they got the warrant, got into your house and busted your grow.
You really need to spend all your energies on avoiding the first tool police use in almost every instance of a so called successful police raid.....and that is informants.
Informant information lead to investigations which will lead to the need for warrants. FLIR then comes into play where there is doubt they have the grounds for a warrant to be issued so therefore need to manufacture the grounds.
A quick FLIR of your house will 99% of the time net one or two unexplained heat areas which they will state with authority is a sign of a clandestined grow operation. That coupled with daytime photos showing curtains closed, windows bolted ajar or whatever else they can twist to make it appear you are growing, they can then head into court with FLIR pics, daytime pics and informant information.
If that fails, perhaps there were no unexplained heat blotches as is the case with most grow ops, they will then go back to their informant and further threaten them with arrest unless they set you up. This can mean them placing weed on you or at your place, or trying to buy weed while under the observation of the weed nazis.
In those cases, once youre in court, the FLIR pics of your place that netted no cause for suspicion would then be used against you to trash your character, by inferring that you willfully thwarted police operations proceedures by blocking their imaging tactics. Try to make you look like a determined hardened criminal.
FLIR is secondary, it works both ways for the cops, informants are your REAL threat.
born2killspam
Well-Known Member
Thing is, in this very thread there are links to articles about police entering homes on the basis of suspicious heat signatures alone.. Its about patterns, not the amount of heat being radiated..
A commercial sized grow op in a residence throws up red-flags in areas like power consumption regardless of how well heat gets diffused, so it would be kind of silly to put too much effort into renovating the house to combat signatures when you're drawing way too many kW..
Most ppl locate their grow op's close to the exterior for easy ventilation.. A couple HID hot spots, and hot air exiting at the same time on a 12/12 cycle wouldn't take a rocket scientist to deduce..
A commercial sized grow op in a residence throws up red-flags in areas like power consumption regardless of how well heat gets diffused, so it would be kind of silly to put too much effort into renovating the house to combat signatures when you're drawing way too many kW..
Most ppl locate their grow op's close to the exterior for easy ventilation.. A couple HID hot spots, and hot air exiting at the same time on a 12/12 cycle wouldn't take a rocket scientist to deduce..
Jonus
Well-Known Member
That would result is lots and lots of raids that resulted in no grow ops if that were the case. No doubt there are the odd place where they may employ that tactic, but the majority depend on informants. How many raids cases are there where power consumption and heat signatures were the primary source of evidence presented by police.
I would say in most of those cases they used other methods to identify the grow, methods that were probably not admissable in court, then used the FLIR images and power bill to show probable cause for warrants.
Even in the case that lead to the US Supreme Court ruling forcing police to obtain search warrants before using FLIR, USA v KYLLO, was initiated against the grower due to informant information.
Here is an extract from the report written into the lead up to the raids.
IN the US v. Field case, another one that was overturned due to FLIR, in fact earlier than the Kyllo case, also initiated by informants
http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=163101
In the US v. Robertson case an unknown informant had tipped agents off, I assume that they did not want to drag their informant into court so used FLIR imaging as their means to an end.
http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/39/891/512213/
In the US v. Fenny it was revealed that warrants for raids came initially from tips from 4 or 5 anonymous informants, which lead to the investigation, FLIR imaging and then raids.
http://www.precydent.com/citation/984/F.2d/1053
In US v. Pinson investigators received an anonymous tip that Pinson had received large amounts of hydroponic gear in the mail, leading to further investigation and the eventual use of FLIR
http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/24/1056/499231/
In State v. Young, Edmond police acted on an informants tip went and observed Youngs house where they used FLIR to generate the grounds for the warrants.
http://www.losangelescriminaldefense.com/INFRARED.pdf
And it goes on and on, in every case where FLIR lead to a raid which found weed, it was initiated by an informant, usually the informant does not want to be identified so the police use FLIR and the power bill to generate and manufacture the grounds for search warrants.
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