Firearms Freindly Collective?

Sir.Ganga

New Member
Misinterpret.. yes, you did that quite well. It's not a matter of having to pack, it's a choice, and a right given to us should we choose to do so. And no, our right to bare arms has no bearing on the shootings that happen in the streets
NO...The right to bare arms is the whole problem, When this was written, the times and people were different and it was written to protect the COUNTRY not the person. The NRA and other gun factors have used this long enough and it should be corrected.

This is the problem now solving it is another again caused by your "RIGHTS"

What do you need a fully automatic assult rifle for? Home protection? Hunting?

Wake up and smell the coffee, they ban certain knifes all the time but automatic weapons.....NO ITS OUR RIGHT! Come on give your heads a shake. collectively..of course.
 

Murfy

Well-Known Member
no-

this country is the person. our union is founded upon the basis of our own liberty. without us the government fails to exist. they(arms) ARE to protect ourselves from tyrants, thus protecting the union.

[video=youtube;3cQNkIrg-Tk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cQNkIrg-Tk[/video]
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
I only read the first post, but:

As has been said before, your right to carry does not supercede the right of people to do or ask as they like, ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. (N.B: I'm not even going to open the can of worms which is "private property") To think otherwise is hilariously, preposterously hypocritical.

And I have no idea why you have this obsession with the constitution and specifically "protecting your asses from tyrants". Absolute fantasy. On a purely pragmatic level, if you think your "assault weapon" is going to stop a modern military, you are hopelessly out of touch with modern warfare. The real reason you should be allowed to own guns is the same reason you should be allowed to smoke weed, and quite simple: we aren't living in soviet russia. Individuals should have the freedom to do as they please, including owning guns, provided you aren't hurting anyone.

And to the gun-control-nuts:

I live in England. As im sure you know we are not legally permitted to own RPG-7's.

Can still buy yourself a pistol pretty easy though, especially if you live in a poor area and know the right people (i.e. violent criminals). Chances are its already been used for crime.


On a more philosophical level: You guys love the idea of banning shit dont you?

I Bet you simultaneously cry about weed being illegal.

 

Murfy

Well-Known Member
you guys get this channel across the pond?-

[video=youtube;vsQzw_Ax8Cw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQzw_Ax8Cw[/video]
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
If it's a knife being presented, and no attack has been made to that point.. I wouldn't present firearm unless said blade happened to be more of a sword, like a 17 inch Tanto.
I would hope that if you carry a firearm you have a more solid knowledge of how combat actually goes down....

A rule of thumb that is taught in american police departments (at least in Texas) is that a man with a drawn knife must be more than 21 metres away from you to be able to confidently draw, present and engage before they are within their effective distance.

A friend of mine was given this lesson and said that EVERY SINGLE PERSON in his group was laughing at the suggestion. Then they took it in turns to stand with weapon holstered while the instructor rushed them with a marker stick from 20 metres (bear in mind that they were EXPECTING his engagement). Every single officer cadet was left with one long diagonal mark across his body before he could draw and engage. Most were left with a big red "X".

It worries me that you people carry guns, but seem like you would be out of your depth WITHOUT one......



tl;dr if someone has a knife drawn you should immediately be using your weapon to create space for you and the bystanders you are presumably protecting.
 

ProdigalSun

Well-Known Member
NO...The right to bare arms is the whole problem, When this was written, the times and people were different and it was written to protect the COUNTRY not the person. The NRA and other gun factors have used this long enough and it should be corrected.

This is the problem now solving it is another again caused by your "RIGHTS"

What do you need a fully automatic assult rifle for? Home protection? Hunting?

Wake up and smell the coffee, they ban certain knifes all the time but automatic weapons.....NO ITS OUR RIGHT! Come on give your heads a shake. collectively..of course.

People dont have any fully automatic assult rifles. Youn need special permits, and checks to get them, and hunting with them is already illegal. If I wan't one, thats a different story, we have a bill of rights, not a bill of needs.

I have fired 20,ooo rounds in the last 3 years not including .22 ammo, as I have said before. I have no inclination whatsoever to hunt. The forefathers had no plans to go hunting, so I don't see why the hunting argument keeps coming up.
I only read the first post, but:

As has been said before, your right to carry does not supercede the right of people to do or ask as they like, ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. (N.B: I'm not even going to open the can of worms which is "private property") To think otherwise is hilariously, preposterously hypocritical.

And I have no idea why you have this obsession with the constitution and specifically "protecting your asses from tyrants". Absolute fantasy. On a purely pragmatic level, if you think your "assault weapon" is going to stop a modern military, you are hopelessly out of touch with modern warfare. The real reason you should be allowed to own guns is the same reason you should be allowed to smoke weed, and quite simple: we aren't living in soviet russia. Individuals should have the freedom to do as they please, including owning guns, provided you aren't hurting anyone.

And to the gun-control-nuts:

I live in England. As im sure you know we are not legally permitted to own RPG-7's.

Can still buy yourself a pistol pretty easy though, especially if you live in a poor area and know the right people (i.e. violent criminals). Chances are its already been used for crime.


On a more philosophical level: You guys love the idea of banning shit dont you?

I Bet you simultaneously cry about weed being illegal.

Really? You don't think so? THats funny right there. A few simple numbers to help you get things clear. 1,200,000 residents in my county alone. Half are gun owners. 3% of them would fight for our rights against the US government. Thats 18,000 people. There are only 1200 oakland county sherriffs employees. About 1/3 are street cops, the rest are pencil pushers. a half of those beat cops are oathkeepser, those who wont fire on american citizens, leaving you with 2-300 cops. Now there are 2,500,000 military personnell in the world. Again, half would never fire on US citizens. I have heard soldiers tell me that if someone in their unit ever fired on an american, they would be immediately killed. So, you now have less than a million troops who would go to war. There are 50 states that leaves 2,000 troops per state. 83 counties in Michigan leaves you with 24 soldiers per county. So by the numbers, you have 25 soldiers, and 250 cops per county.

Simply put, in a shooting war against the people, the US government wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell.
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
Yep. Highest chances of being shot are in gun free zones. All but one of our countries mass shootings have happened in gun free zones. Broad daylight, nice area, nobody would have thought, kinda places.
Precisely why I was going to get my PI, purely to open up the ability to carry in more gun-free zones.. at least unless/until Michigan signs off on additional legislation to open up the zones.
 

mrbungle79

Well-Known Member
it irritates the hell out of me every time someone refers to ANY civilian weapon as an "assault weapon". those people haven't got a clue. an ar15 is a dressed up hunting rifle. it does not become more powerful or deadly because a flashlight or a collapsible stock was added. i can add a laser to an old six shooter if wanted, does that now make it an assault revolver? get in line sheeple, obama has a job for you
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
NO...The right to bare arms is the whole problem, When this was written, the times and people were different and it was written to protect the COUNTRY not the person. The NRA and other gun factors have used this long enough and it should be corrected.

This is the problem now solving it is another again caused by your "RIGHTS"

What do you need a fully automatic assult rifle for? Home protection? Hunting?

Wake up and smell the coffee, they ban certain knifes all the time but automatic weapons.....NO ITS OUR RIGHT! Come on give your heads a shake. collectively..of course.
See, to me that sounds like a selective defensive posture - without starting an argument, I'll try to elaborate as to why. In the same breath you say that there is no need for an automatic weapon at all... you (and everyone else who shares your same mindset in Canada) has -NO COMPLAINT- at all with the US putting anti-rocket and missile systems on your west coast in the last few weeks to stop nuclear attacks from N.Korean subs or their mainland (assuming their mainland can touch you, their subs definitely can.) What is the difference at that point? Someone else is protecting you, so it's okay as opposed to you being able to do so yourself by any means one can acquire? Again, not an argument - just trying to understand your logic which isn't an all-encompassing standpoint, to me anyway.
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
I would hope that if you carry a firearm you have a more solid knowledge of how combat actually goes down....

A rule of thumb that is taught in american police departments (at least in Texas) is that a man with a drawn knife must be more than 21 metres away from you to be able to confidently draw, present and engage before they are within their effective distance.

A friend of mine was given this lesson and said that EVERY SINGLE PERSON in his group was laughing at the suggestion. Then they took it in turns to stand with weapon holstered while the instructor rushed them with a marker stick from 20 metres (bear in mind that they were EXPECTING his engagement). Every single officer cadet was left with one long diagonal mark across his body before he could draw and engage. Most were left with a big red "X".

It worries me that you people carry guns, but seem like you would be out of your depth WITHOUT one......



tl;dr if someone has a knife drawn you should immediately be using your weapon to create space for you and the bystanders you are presumably protecting.
Which is precisely why you're not allowed to give advice to civilians, further than 21 -FEET- (7 yds) in Michigan, and in a court of law will get you put on trial, and you will not like the results. For no-knock, the range goes to 12 yds, and that's with a 2x2 leapfrog team door breaching with a shotgun/rifle pairing going in the gate hot. For those who may doubt, I welcome any of you to research Massad Ayoob... he happened to be my instructor when he was running LFI (When it was still LFI, before the change to MAG), and can vouch for anything I've said in terms of legality/liability in terms of engagement distances from a civilian standpoint.

Edit: If they're close enough to us to use the knife, by the time I'd drawn the gun one of us would have the blade in the ribs.. and hand-to-hand with Krav knife deflection and disarm would be much safer than firing at very close proximity.. not even factoring the number of innocents that may be behind the one attacking, but am sure you already thought of that.
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
...Sooo....Who are you protecting from? This is exactly my point... Whether you have guns or not is not going to make a difference. If you were invaded by another nation (or: they would be willing to kill you) They are not going to be hakka-hakka-ing around with AK47s, they are going to be dropping bombs on you. In an actual "defend americuh" scenario your legal ownership of some semiautomatic rifles is going to be of little consequence really. You're going to be planting IEDs and bombing the occupiers while they queue for lunch and shit.

I don't think everyone in iraq and afghanistan had a permit for their AK47 but it didnt help them much did it.

I think that you have just seen a sentence in my post that you don't like and gone on a tangent about it.
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you know your shit, why did you say you wouldn't draw if someone had a knife then? not challenging you just wondered.
Depending on the range they are when it's presented, it's not guaranteed that it's a safe option for myself or those near me... if they pulled it out at the 7yd/21-ish mark.. I'd have my hand on piece and give a direct order, any advancement would cause presentation of the firearm. If they're within threat circle, and pulled it then put it to my body, or body of one with me.. there would be no choice in terms of drawing - I'd have to disarm/incapacitate before drawing, after securing their weapon. Was more of a general / hypothetical, in that I wouldn't draw 100% of the time, given that their weapon may already be drawn, how big they are, how built they are, their perceived ability to close the distance, etc.
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
I think i misunderstood your first post. However from what i understand you would still hesitate to draw even if you had time, depending on if they advanced on you? If you would draw when they advance​ why would you not draw before?
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
I think i misunderstood your first post. However from what i understand you would still hesitate to draw even if you had time, depending on if they advanced on you? If you would draw when they advance​ why would you not draw before?
If not advancing toward a target, no threat acquired - anyone could pull out a pocket knife, but until they're advancing toward a target it's pure judgement call in that respect and is personal preference - presentation of firearm without just cause in MI will get you charges for brandishing and CPL suspended, or revoked depending on the judge and gun board.. after a full investigation of the circumstances.
 

ProdigalSun

Well-Known Member
Precisely why I was going to get my PI, purely to open up the ability to carry in more gun-free zones.. at least unless/until Michigan signs off on additional legislation to open up the zones.
Look for it this fall.

Which is precisely why you're not allowed to give advice to civilians, further than 21 -FEET- (7 yds) in Michigan, and in a court of law will get you put on trial, and you will not like the results. For no-knock, the range goes to 12 yds, and that's with a 2x2 leapfrog team door breaching with a shotgun/rifle pairing going in the gate hot. For those who may doubt, I welcome any of you to research Massad Ayoob... he happened to be my instructor when he was running LFI (When it was still LFI, before the change to MAG), and can vouch for anything I've said in terms of legality/liability in terms of engagement distances from a civilian standpoint.

Edit: If they're close enough to us to use the knife, by the time I'd drawn the gun one of us would have the blade in the ribs.. and hand-to-hand with Krav knife deflection and disarm would be much safer than firing at very close proximity.. not even factoring the number of innocents that may be behind the one attacking, but am sure you already thought of that.

Hold up. No such law. It's a loose standard used by police, but has recently been extended to 30 feet because 21 feet and you're probably going to get hit even with training. If the person with the knife is trained, you're in deep, a knife is much more effective at short ranges.

...Sooo....Who are you protecting from? This is exactly my point... Whether you have guns or not is not going to make a difference. If you were invaded by another nation (or: they would be willing to kill you) They are not going to be hakka-hakka-ing around with AK47s, they are going to be dropping bombs on you. In an actual "defend americuh" scenario your legal ownership of some semiautomatic rifles is going to be of little consequence really. You're going to be planting IEDs and bombing the occupiers while they queue for lunch and shit.

I don't think everyone in iraq and afghanistan had a permit for their AK47 but it didnt help them much did it.

I think that you have just seen a sentence in my post that you don't like and gone on a tangent about it.
It's over your head at this point.

If not advancing toward a target, no threat acquired - anyone could pull out a pocket knife, but until they're advancing toward a target it's pure judgement call in that respect and is personal preference - presentation of firearm without just cause in MI will get you charges for brandishing and CPL suspended, or revoked depending on the judge and gun board.. after a full investigation of the circumstances.
Pretty much.
 
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