radeonDEUS
Active Member
so i know 95 is pretty hot, that is with the doors sealed completely and the exhaust fan running. so how can i lower the temp? bigger intakes or more powerful fan...or both.
who says what?
who says what?
First grow - bag seed x8 - CFL - 4x4x4 cab or 3x3x3
- Thread starter radeonDEUS
- Start date
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
both
bigger intake and dump the filter (if you have one) 1st step
if that dont work up the CFM
dude, 95 is hot but jeesus its just weed
bigger intake and dump the filter (if you have one) 1st step
if that dont work up the CFM
dude, 95 is hot but jeesus its just weed
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
i personally think (MY OPINION) they like it a bit warm.
i just sectioned off my cab and now my flower side is gettting no vent, dosent seem to matter to be honest, still growing good. 1 plant is stunted due to cutting 4 clones off a plant that had 7 branches but the heat seems to help. dont go over 95, and if you can get down to 89-90 i think some strains thrive on that hot weather
i just sectioned off my cab and now my flower side is gettting no vent, dosent seem to matter to be honest, still growing good. 1 plant is stunted due to cutting 4 clones off a plant that had 7 branches but the heat seems to help. dont go over 95, and if you can get down to 89-90 i think some strains thrive on that hot weather
Triclone Head
Member
man thats an outa sight unit you have there dude!!! and the weeds seem to like it in there, but for me being a "closet/outdoor grower" do ya think the heat might be an issue?? 95 seems to high....aleast for my 5' lenght x 2' wide x 8' height closet. (pics soon) I have my grow between 76-78 degrees with a squirrel exhaust,also a 6"circulate fan..all I know is that I never seen high temps like that in a cab before...thats just my opinion...very certain that the last pic in your thread is gunna be a beauty...Fresh smoke an Happy Trails
Triclone Head
Member
bigger space...radeonDEUS
Active Member
theres no filter at the moment. just two intakes on either side, 1.25" each and then the 4" in the center ceiling, which is just a 4" 90 degree elbow through a 4" hole in the ceiling with the 60 cfm fan duct taped to it. its just plugged straight in, no timer or anything. keeping it around 95 degrees steady. the doors are sealed now, so the humidity is up which is good, but id like the temp down a lil.
probably right, just start with making the intakes bigger. i may just enlarge both to 4". there would then be a total of 8" in and 4" out. worried ill just end up getting the more powerful fan anyway and then the intakes will be too big...so...fuck i don't know.
i KNOW I'm looking too much into this (matt) but lol I'm just trying to learn as much as possible. definitely not STRESSING about it, but every lil thing brings up a thousand new questions. just want to learn as much as possible. a lot of the time when i stop and think about it, i can figure out the best way. but i DEFINITELY love having someone else get me there quicker lol.
hey i guess the way i see it, as long as these lil babies keep growing, I'm good! lol.
probably right, just start with making the intakes bigger. i may just enlarge both to 4". there would then be a total of 8" in and 4" out. worried ill just end up getting the more powerful fan anyway and then the intakes will be too big...so...fuck i don't know.
i KNOW I'm looking too much into this (matt) but lol I'm just trying to learn as much as possible. definitely not STRESSING about it, but every lil thing brings up a thousand new questions. just want to learn as much as possible. a lot of the time when i stop and think about it, i can figure out the best way. but i DEFINITELY love having someone else get me there quicker lol.
hey i guess the way i see it, as long as these lil babies keep growing, I'm good! lol.
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
Negative pressure helps guarantee all air flowing out of your tent is filtered.
Say you have a 6" exhaust and a 12" inlet - you can only exhaust 1/4 of the possible capacity of the 12" inlet which means that although you are pulling air in from parts of the inlet air can also escape from other parts of the inlet. Or say you have a 6" exhaust and 4 6" inlets - the exhaust might just pull from a single inlet in which case air could flow in and out of the other 3 inlets as it pleases - not being filtered mind you.
Now if you have a 6" exhaust and a 4" inlet the fan will attempt to draw out more air than you are letting in creating a vacuum and ensuring none will be able to escape - all air that enters the tent will have to pass through the filter before exiting it, even the tiny amount of air being sucked into the tent through small holes and cracks. Now this vacuum does strain your fan so you don't want too much negative pressure - enough to make sure no air is escaping through cracks and fissures but not so much you kill your airflow or burn your fan out.
Positive pressure - Say you blew air in with a 6" fan and only had a 4" outlet for it to escape through the filter - air would try and break out of every tiny hole and crack you have which would make the filter pretty pointless.
Say you have a 6" exhaust and a 12" inlet - you can only exhaust 1/4 of the possible capacity of the 12" inlet which means that although you are pulling air in from parts of the inlet air can also escape from other parts of the inlet. Or say you have a 6" exhaust and 4 6" inlets - the exhaust might just pull from a single inlet in which case air could flow in and out of the other 3 inlets as it pleases - not being filtered mind you.
Now if you have a 6" exhaust and a 4" inlet the fan will attempt to draw out more air than you are letting in creating a vacuum and ensuring none will be able to escape - all air that enters the tent will have to pass through the filter before exiting it, even the tiny amount of air being sucked into the tent through small holes and cracks. Now this vacuum does strain your fan so you don't want too much negative pressure - enough to make sure no air is escaping through cracks and fissures but not so much you kill your airflow or burn your fan out.
Positive pressure - Say you blew air in with a 6" fan and only had a 4" outlet for it to escape through the filter - air would try and break out of every tiny hole and crack you have which would make the filter pretty pointless.
radeonDEUS
Active Member
alright i think i follow. it makes sense. so heres where i am at though.
i have a 3x3x3 foot insulated cabinet. it seems pretty well sealed, minus the doors, which are still pretty well sealed anyway. the intakes and exhaust are as mentioned, and if i am calculating correctly, i am getting 62.5% intake capacity of the 4" exhaust.
you (gastanker) are talking about a pretty serious exhaust system. there are only 27 cubic feet in the cab, less technically. while the temp is very high, it also dropped about ten degrees when i made the exhaust port bigger. as far as pressure goes inside, I'm reasonably sure there is negative pressure now. its just not moving ENOUGH air. i don't want to change the intakes. they are sealed in and i feel like they will be sufficient, and it may just be fine the way it is now. i can deal with 95 degrees if the plants don't die.
i guess i may just get a better fan and try that. going to only run the fan with the lights on. was going to attempt to temp control it but it seems like that would be pointless because it would just run the whole time the lights were on anyway. so. i guess i will just buy a new fan. lol. and then i can order the filter later, like when i start flower.
anyone, could i upgrade this cab with HID lighting? what other upgrades are possible with this cab? is it worth it? should i just build another or get a tent? want to know what everyone thinks.
i have a 3x3x3 foot insulated cabinet. it seems pretty well sealed, minus the doors, which are still pretty well sealed anyway. the intakes and exhaust are as mentioned, and if i am calculating correctly, i am getting 62.5% intake capacity of the 4" exhaust.
you (gastanker) are talking about a pretty serious exhaust system. there are only 27 cubic feet in the cab, less technically. while the temp is very high, it also dropped about ten degrees when i made the exhaust port bigger. as far as pressure goes inside, I'm reasonably sure there is negative pressure now. its just not moving ENOUGH air. i don't want to change the intakes. they are sealed in and i feel like they will be sufficient, and it may just be fine the way it is now. i can deal with 95 degrees if the plants don't die.
i guess i may just get a better fan and try that. going to only run the fan with the lights on. was going to attempt to temp control it but it seems like that would be pointless because it would just run the whole time the lights were on anyway. so. i guess i will just buy a new fan. lol. and then i can order the filter later, like when i start flower.
anyone, could i upgrade this cab with HID lighting? what other upgrades are possible with this cab? is it worth it? should i just build another or get a tent? want to know what everyone thinks.
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
You could run a small HID if you upgrade the ventilation/fan which is why I would recommend a cheap 6" inline fan. 6" is overkill but running it on a dimmer will be much quieter than a 4" running full blast - like that one person suggested, this can technically harm your fan but I personally have never met anyone that had a fan get damaged/fail. With an aircooled hood I would assume that you could run a 250 or 400w in that space. You might be able to pull off a 600w blowing a ton of air during the cooler parts of the yeah but it would be calling it close unless you increase height.
You can always leave the current inlets and just add more - should increase airflow to a degree even with your current fan.
Pretend this is air and not water and only pay attention to the top graph. So the 1 1/2" has a flow rate of 3gpm at the lowest pressure (lets pretend that's your 60cfm duct fan). 4" at the lowest pressure is 40gpm - over ten times the rate of the 1 1/2" at the very same pressure. So by only have small inlets you are decreasing your 60cfms fan capacity to evacuate air by a whole lot.
Upping your fan is like increasing your pressure - so lets say a 200cfm fan increases pressure to 1 psi - at 4" and 1psi it could move a total of 250gpm but the 1 1/2" would limit this to 10gpm - 25 times less airflow. So with a big fan you really need to enlarge the inlets but even with a smaller fan it makes a big difference - and that is without taking into consideration friction loss of air movement.
I grew some plants in a 3x3x3 area with the same 60cfm duct booster fan in a 110 degree trailer during the summer - it will work even at high temps, the plants will grow and you will end up with bud. It might be a bit fluffier and just generally different bud than if grown at cooler temps but it is definitely possible.
let me know if you want me to get rid of the chart.
You can always leave the current inlets and just add more - should increase airflow to a degree even with your current fan.
Pretend this is air and not water and only pay attention to the top graph. So the 1 1/2" has a flow rate of 3gpm at the lowest pressure (lets pretend that's your 60cfm duct fan). 4" at the lowest pressure is 40gpm - over ten times the rate of the 1 1/2" at the very same pressure. So by only have small inlets you are decreasing your 60cfms fan capacity to evacuate air by a whole lot.
Upping your fan is like increasing your pressure - so lets say a 200cfm fan increases pressure to 1 psi - at 4" and 1psi it could move a total of 250gpm but the 1 1/2" would limit this to 10gpm - 25 times less airflow. So with a big fan you really need to enlarge the inlets but even with a smaller fan it makes a big difference - and that is without taking into consideration friction loss of air movement.
I grew some plants in a 3x3x3 area with the same 60cfm duct booster fan in a 110 degree trailer during the summer - it will work even at high temps, the plants will grow and you will end up with bud. It might be a bit fluffier and just generally different bud than if grown at cooler temps but it is definitely possible.
let me know if you want me to get rid of the chart.
radeonDEUS
Active Member
all i can say is +rep. you rock gastanker. exactly the type of info i need/can understand. going to start with adding another intake, then perhaps another. see how far i have to go. i have room on the sides where the intakes are, and can adjust the current ones completely. will probably end up with at least 2 on each side then. keeping the same diameter, if only for appearances (ocd aesthetics - yes i do sit in my basement and stare at a wooden box. lol). keep the fan i have now, and upgrade if necessary. maybe it won't be necessary with more intakes. excited.
the 6" hydrofarms is only like 5 bucks more than the 4". might as well get that. can either do a 4 to 6 inch reducer or just increase the size of the exhaust port. again. lol.
the 6" hydrofarms is only like 5 bucks more than the 4". might as well get that. can either do a 4 to 6 inch reducer or just increase the size of the exhaust port. again. lol.
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
top of the mornin to ya Rad
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
I literally sit and stare into my tent for at least an hour a day if not more, so yes I believe it 
Helps with seasonal affect disorder you know, even if you don't really have it.
Your cab looks badass imo so by all means keep it looking good - not just for you but for us as well; I'd much rather look at pics of a pretty cab than an ugly one.
Helps with seasonal affect disorder you know, even if you don't really have it. Your cab looks badass imo so by all means keep it looking good - not just for you but for us as well; I'd much rather look at pics of a pretty cab than an ugly one.
radeonDEUS
Active Member
haha word. thats awesome. so i drilled and sealed two more ports before work. have to add some more tubing to light trap, but i think it will cause a significant improvement. same sized intakes as the last. have to route the fan cable back into the cab, to plug into the light timer.
LOVE the charts gastanker, def leave em! i wasnt trying to be a dick to triclone lol i he just quoted my entire pic update post to comment on it, reposted a bunch of pics. that was all...no bigs and thanks for the compliment! im sooo stoked my first cab came out so good! plus im pretty sure i could do an outdoor indoor grow lol its in my garage/basement that gets real cold!
TOP OF THE MORNIN TO YA TOO MATTY OL BOY
lol sorry it took me so long to finish this post...blogging at work...bad...lol
LOVE the charts gastanker, def leave em! i wasnt trying to be a dick to triclone lol i he just quoted my entire pic update post to comment on it, reposted a bunch of pics. that was all...no bigs
and thanks for the compliment! im sooo stoked my first cab came out so good! plus im pretty sure i could do an outdoor indoor grow lol its in my garage/basement that gets real cold!TOP OF THE MORNIN TO YA TOO MATTY OL BOY
lol sorry it took me so long to finish this post...blogging at work...bad...lol
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
I literally sit and stare into my tent for at least an hour a day if not more, so yes I believe it
Your cab looks badass imo so by all means keep it looking good - not just for you but for us as well; I'd much rather look at pics of a pretty cab than an ugly one.
haha like my cab ><
Gastanker
Well-Known Member
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
It can't be an ugly cab if filled with beautiful healthy plants - duh...
except my cab is filled with mangles shitty plants LOL, hopefully the other is a female and the clones come through and i will have a nice little SoG in there
but right now my plants look like they have been run overradeonDEUS
Active Member
lol they aren't mangled man, and they are a LOT better off than mine. wana hear a funny story guys? i planted on december 3rd. my plants are still under 6 inches tall. thats 4 full weeks of vegging. NOWHERE close to ready to flower. THAT is funny. my cab may LOOK sweet, but in the end its all for the plants.
i guess my babies ARE taking off tho. i did what i wanted and learned about the cab, thermodynamics, lighting, insulation, air flow, construction, soil/mediums, nutes, etc etc the list goes on...not saying i have that all down pat (ha - that'd b a good joke) but i LEARNED and that was the point. NOW that my cab FINALLY holds steady temps, got everything PRETTY much all worked out logistically with the cab...
time to focus on actually growing. maybe a lil improvement on the cab. but mostly growing. i have 9 babies now. hoping for 5 female, hoping for that beginners luck. we shall see.
do i upgrade to HID for the next round or do i continue with cfls and do SoG and lst'ing? see how this first grow turns out and go from there right? right. ok. lol.
i guess my babies ARE taking off tho. i did what i wanted and learned about the cab, thermodynamics, lighting, insulation, air flow, construction, soil/mediums, nutes, etc etc the list goes on...not saying i have that all down pat (ha - that'd b a good joke) but i LEARNED and that was the point. NOW that my cab FINALLY holds steady temps, got everything PRETTY much all worked out logistically with the cab...
time to focus on actually growing. maybe a lil improvement on the cab. but mostly growing. i have 9 babies now. hoping for 5 female, hoping for that beginners luck. we shall see.
do i upgrade to HID for the next round or do i continue with cfls and do SoG and lst'ing? see how this first grow turns out and go from there right? right. ok. lol.
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
well if you can get HID then thats the way to go. CFL growing is great, it works well but there is better out there to use. when i get my money in about a week first thing im buying is a 1000w HID lighting system with a dimmable ballast so i can use it as a 400w or a 600w. my second investment will be a grow tent.
i will cont to use CFL's for vegging and maybe some for side lighting in flower but mostly for vegging.
honestly if you do end up with a good number of females it will probally cost you LESS to buy a 4-600W HID lighting system then to buy all the CFL u will need to finish flowering 4-6 plants.
trust me, you dont want to grow for 4 months just to get 1/2 of what you could get because you didnt have enough CFL. Gastanker can crunch the numbers for you on how many CFL you will probally end up needing to finish fully flowering 5 plants (if you dont mind, sorry to volunteer you lol)
i will cont to use CFL's for vegging and maybe some for side lighting in flower but mostly for vegging.
honestly if you do end up with a good number of females it will probally cost you LESS to buy a 4-600W HID lighting system then to buy all the CFL u will need to finish flowering 4-6 plants.
trust me, you dont want to grow for 4 months just to get 1/2 of what you could get because you didnt have enough CFL. Gastanker can crunch the numbers for you on how many CFL you will probally end up needing to finish fully flowering 5 plants (if you dont mind, sorry to volunteer you lol)
matthebrute
Well-Known Member
Approximate light production:
Incandescents: 17 lumens/watt
Mercury vapor: 45-50 lumens/watt
Fluorescents: 60-70 lumens/watt
Metal halide: 90 lumens/watt
High pressure sodium: 107 lumens/watt
so for a 400w HPS you get about 42,800 lumens
and for 400w worth of CFL you get only 28,000
they say about 10,000 lumen per Sq foot so you would need around 430w of CFL to get just a little above 30,000 lumens for your 3 sq ft grow area. so now you using MORE electricity for less light so you start saving money with the HPS right there.
you can find a decent HPS light system wich is entire kit ballast, cool tube, MH and HPS bulbs, hangars and usually a free timer for around 125 bucks new and under 100 used.
in order to get that 30,000 lumens you need 430w of CFL, say you are buying therm by the 2 pack at wal mart, 26w CFL for around 6 bucks a 2 pack. you will need 17 of them so 9x6 = 54$ blus Y's for all them bulbs, fixtures wiring and all that shit your looking at close to 100$ to achieve bare min amount of lumens, more electricity usage and a shit ton of CFL bulbs in your cab.
so bottom line for 100 bucks you can either have 430w CFL setup OR 400w HPS setup that will give you roughly 12,700 more lumens and use less power, plus its only 1 light to deal with.
feel free to correct me if im wrong with my numbers. trying to look this shit up as i go lol
Incandescents: 17 lumens/watt
Mercury vapor: 45-50 lumens/watt
Fluorescents: 60-70 lumens/watt
Metal halide: 90 lumens/watt
High pressure sodium: 107 lumens/watt
so for a 400w HPS you get about 42,800 lumens
and for 400w worth of CFL you get only 28,000
they say about 10,000 lumen per Sq foot so you would need around 430w of CFL to get just a little above 30,000 lumens for your 3 sq ft grow area. so now you using MORE electricity for less light so you start saving money with the HPS right there.
you can find a decent HPS light system wich is entire kit ballast, cool tube, MH and HPS bulbs, hangars and usually a free timer for around 125 bucks new and under 100 used.
in order to get that 30,000 lumens you need 430w of CFL, say you are buying therm by the 2 pack at wal mart, 26w CFL for around 6 bucks a 2 pack. you will need 17 of them so 9x6 = 54$ blus Y's for all them bulbs, fixtures wiring and all that shit your looking at close to 100$ to achieve bare min amount of lumens, more electricity usage and a shit ton of CFL bulbs in your cab.
so bottom line for 100 bucks you can either have 430w CFL setup OR 400w HPS setup that will give you roughly 12,700 more lumens and use less power, plus its only 1 light to deal with.
feel free to correct me if im wrong with my numbers. trying to look this shit up as i go lol
radeonDEUS
Active Member
dude you have it down. didn't realize the switch point in efficiency was such a low wattage. i believe you're right tho. have u seen any of the pics tho matt? i have 18 bulbs now lol. i have 4 quads and a double. the double has the two extra y splitters for when i wana start flower and make the double a fifth quad. and what i was planning on doing was getting 4 of the 65watt (300watt equiv) bulb for flowering. so i would have 4 quad fixtures with 92 watts each, thats a total of 368 watts with the four quads, add in the fifth fixture with 4 65watt 2700k bulbs for a GRAND TOTAL OF 628 FUCKING WATTS HOLY SHIT I SHOULD HAVE NOT SPENT SO MUCH ON CFLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
currently at just over 400 watts. i feel dumb. actually hold on lets do this...
i bought 4 4 packs of 23 watt cfls for 10.97 each. thats 368 watts for $43.88. add in the 4 65watt 2700k's for $16.97, subtotaled at $67.88 each thats a grand total of 628watts for $111.16. add in the 7 bucks for each socket, and then 12 for each quad adapter...GRAND TOTAL SPENT ON JUST LIGHTS = JUST UNDER $210. FUCK ME.
ok now I'm pissed. should have just bought a HID system. the only thing i haven't bought yet to have what i broke down above is the four BIG bulbs. which i factored with 65 watt bulbs but i saw on google shopping that you can actually buy self ballasted 100watt bulbs in both spectrums.
i guess now the question is do i spend more money and finish fitting my cab for cfl, or do i just get a HID system before flowering. shit i mean i guess its a learning experience, and IM GETTING IT.
currently at just over 400 watts. i feel dumb. actually hold on lets do this...
i bought 4 4 packs of 23 watt cfls for 10.97 each. thats 368 watts for $43.88. add in the 4 65watt 2700k's for $16.97, subtotaled at $67.88 each thats a grand total of 628watts for $111.16. add in the 7 bucks for each socket, and then 12 for each quad adapter...GRAND TOTAL SPENT ON JUST LIGHTS = JUST UNDER $210. FUCK ME.
ok now I'm pissed. should have just bought a HID system. the only thing i haven't bought yet to have what i broke down above is the four BIG bulbs. which i factored with 65 watt bulbs but i saw on google shopping that you can actually buy self ballasted 100watt bulbs in both spectrums.
i guess now the question is do i spend more money and finish fitting my cab for cfl, or do i just get a HID system before flowering. shit i mean i guess its a learning experience, and IM GETTING IT.