First grow, looking for advice

Hey guys, I'm looking to start my first grow, however I need a few tips!


Seeds!
I'm looking at these strains to kind of keep a middle ground between cheap and quality:

http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.u...regular/white-label-white-skunk/prod_521.html

http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.u...eds-regular/nirvana-seeds-ak-48/prod_356.html

and then of course the freebies you get for spending tiers from attitude

http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/freebies/dinafem-blue-hash/prod_1078.html

http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/freebies/dinafem-seeds-roadrunner-free-seed/prod_1128.html

I think all in all it ran me somewhere around 80 dollars from attitude, I chose them because I didn't like that fact that most people had to wait 2-3 weeks to get seeds from Nirvana, and Attitude has the awesome package tracking, plus my shipment is garanteed with their stealth delivery option.


Lights!
Anyway I'm going to be doing a CFL grow, I already went out and purchased 2 bulbs of each.

For Flowering: (2 pack 26w 100w equiv running on the 2700k spectrum and 1750 lumens)
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=23790-371-60043&lpage=none

Couldn't find a link on the Veg CFL I bought but it's a 26w 100w equiv with 6500k spectrum and 1600 lumens


Soil!
This is the area I'm having the problems with, I went out and got some Organic Miracle Grow: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=78595-446-72986655&lpage=none

This soil seems pretty Airy, however I've been researching about using Coco as a medium, and I think I want to go Coco instead. My reasoning is that; I will basically be controlling when and where my plants get nutes and more specifically the types of nutes they get, and it seems pretty beginner safe, in that it protects from overwatering, which is something I can see myself easily doing.

I've pretty much made up my mind on this, unless that is, anyone has had any luck or is familiar with the Organic Miracle Grow and how it affects the grow, during Veg and flowering stages.

Now the problem is my inability to find a good place to buy Coco, nor do I know what the preferred soil consistancy would be for a container grow, also the little information I've been able to pick up about Coco is that it already has some plant minerals in it that are specific to the Coconut plant, so you have to use Coco safe nutrients to not overload the plant with the nutrients that are already present.

So basically what I need help on with this is any link or place or company to buy good potting coco soil, and any nutes that are compatible with it, I've heard Gravity works well for flowering, what about during the Veg stage?


Miscellaneous!
PH Strips - I'd also like to add that I have PH strips to ensure my PH is in the 5-6 range that is recomended for Coco grows (although I havn't seen any designation as to whether this was a hydroponic only thing or for all grow types, any clarification would be good on this!)

Odor Control - I plan on making the Cup carbon scrubber detailed here, https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/101248-best-diy-ez-walmart-carbon.html
If anyone has any info on how well, or not well, this works or any cheaper(don't think it can get much cheaper than this method) or better working method, it would be much appreciated! I also plan on buying some Zeolite, as I've heard it works nearly 100% for all types of odors, and it's impossibly cheap.

Humidity - I have a humidifier that I will be placing in the cabinet along with a temp/humidity guage.


Questions!
Just to summarize:

1. Any information on growing in containers using Coco mediums.

2. What kind of Coco soil to use as far as grain size etc, also a link to a website to purchase it off the internet, or direct me to a retailer that I can go to.

3. I know CFL 2 lights probally won't be enough for 3-4 plants, but is a rough estimate on lighting needed good to go at 1 light per plant? And possibly add some lower lights(heard lights in the blue spectrum are great to add during flowering to improve color and taste) during the later Veg/Flowering Stage if my plants are really bushy?

4. What kind of Coco safe nutes should I use, and where can I get ahold of some Gravity!?

5. Any links to journals of grows that might be similar to mine would be extremely helpful.

6. As a matter of PH controlling, what is a good way to raise or lower water PH, and how does adding nutrients into water effect the PH, does the PH still need to be readjusted when adding Nutes or is the addition of nutrients neglible?


I'm a perfectionist, and I want to make sure all the chips are stacked in my favor before I start this grow, any help suggestions comments on my choices, and explanations on any of the above or anything I havn't listed would be extremely helpful and appreciated! Thanks for reading, I'm hoping to start growing sometime within a weeks time!

Good job with researching before the grow. I sorta learn as I go (my 1st grow) and have had some problems along the way. I've also been able to solve a few as well, thanks to the people and info found on this site.

Can't really help you with any of your questions except 1.

6. As a matter of PH controlling, what is a good way to raise or lower water PH, and how does adding nutrients into water effect the PH, does the PH still need to be readjusted when adding Nutes or is the addition of nutrients neglible?

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My water ph is 9.2 out of the tap with 160ppm TDS.
When using straight water on the plant, I have to use ph down. I have heard of other things to drop ph, but I haven't used those and cannot comment on them.
Now.... once I add nutes to my 9.2 tap water, my ph drops to 6.3- just where I keep it for soil.
I don't know if all nutes will create this kind of a drop. Being my 1st grow, I have nothing for comparison.

Good luck with your upcoming grow.

Stonefish said:

Good job with researching before the grow. I sorta learn as I go (my 1st grow) and have had some problems along the way. I've also been able to solve a few as well, thanks to the people and info found on this site.

Can't really help you with any of your questions except 1.


My water ph is 9.2 out of the tap with 160ppm TDS.
When using straight water on the plant, I have to use ph down. I have heard of other things to drop ph, but I haven't used those and cannot comment on them.
Now.... once I add nutes to my 9.2 tap water, my ph drops to 6.3- just where I keep it for soil.
I don't know if all nutes will create this kind of a drop. Being my 1st grow, I have nothing for comparison.

Good luck with your upcoming grow.

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the nutrients you use must be pretty acidic, when you say PH down, is that an actual product you use to drop PH, concurrently is there a PH up if your water starts at an initially lower PH level and you are using acidic nutrients such as yourself?

200 real watts per square foot, which is about 8 of you 23 w per plant.

bar said:

200 real watts per square foot, which is about 8 of you 23 w per plant.

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Thanks for the imput, I might have to order some larger wattage of the internet, the lowes and home depot in my area don't have much for high wattage CFLs

Little update, I went ahead and put in an order, spent a little more than I was wanting but I think in the end it'll pay me back 10 fold found a site that was reasonably cheap, although the shipping almost cost more than the actual products I went ahead and got:

50 litter bag @ $19.25 http://www.hydroasis.com/hy/productd...large-bag-50-l

Coco A & B 1 lt. @ $21.90
http://www.hydroasis.com/hy/productdetail.aspx?id=1041

PK 13/14 250 ml. @ $5.95
http://www.hydroasis.com/hy/productdetail.aspx?id=1056

Rhizotonic 250 ml @ $17.95
http://www.hydroasis.com/hy/productd...uct=Rhizotonic

Altogether it was $65.05 and shipping was another $41.13, so $106.18 total the weight of the soil really smacked me in the face on the shipping lol, but what can you do?

So now i just need to sit back and wait for everything to get here!

Ne0. said:

the nutrients you use must be pretty acidic, when you say PH down, is that an actual product you use to drop PH, concurrently is there a PH up if your water starts at an initially lower PH level and you are using acidic nutrients such as yourself?

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Yes, there is a product called PH Down- there is also a product called PH Up.
Both can be found at your local grow shops. In a pinch, I've heard that you can use PH down/up that was designed for aquarium use. I have no idea if the products have the same active ingredients. Since I buy my nutes at the grow shop, I just picked up some PH down while I was there.
I don't know what you will be using for nutes but I use the basic General Hydroponics nutes. As mentioned previously, I haven't a clue whether all brands of nutes will have a similar reaction to PH.

Here's a pic of the GH brand PH down for reference:

Ne0. said:

Thanks for the imput, I might have to order some larger wattage of the internet, the lowes and home depot in my area don't have much for high wattage CFLs

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Double check Home Depot man I found some 68watt cfls there and my bitches are rockin with it lovely! Besides,certain shit I refuse to buy online...yaaa mean!

Stonefish said:

I don't know what you will be using for nutes but I use the basic General Hydroponics nutes.

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It's been a long day. I re-read your post and know what you will be using for nutes after all. I just can't tell you what to expect in the way of PH changes.

Be sure you read the nute labels carefully before mixing. With the GH 3part, you must mix the micro 1st or, from my understanding, you will get nute lockout. I don't know that this is fact, it's just what I've read and I haven't tested for verification.

Stonefish said:

It's been a long day. I re-read your post and know what you will be using for nutes after all. I just can't tell you what to expect in the way of PH changes.

Be sure you read the nute labels carefully before mixing. With the GH 3part, you must mix the micro 1st or, from my understanding, you will get nute lockout. I don't know that this is fact, it's just what I've read and I haven't tested for verification.

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I plan on going pretty low on nutes, and increasing as the plants can handle it, I think that's the only way I'm going to get good results and still be able to learn how much to give and what the plants can handle, also since I'll probally be growing 2-3 different strains they probally won't all like the same solution. Reason I got the rizotonic is mainly because I read that it was good to give even as a seedling and promotes strong root growth, which in turn gives you bigger plants in the long run, at 18 dollars for 250 ml I'd say it better work lol! Is GH 3 part the nutes you use? I had to go with Canna products as it's highly recomended by everyone on here that uses coco products for a beginner.

Ne0. said:

I plan on going pretty low on nutes, and increasing as the plants can handle it, I think that's the only way I'm going to get good results and still be able to learn how much to give and what the plants can handle, also since I'll probally be growing 2-3 different strains they probally won't all like the same solution. Reason I got the rizotonic is mainly because I read that it was good to give even as a seedling and promotes strong root growth, which in turn gives you bigger plants in the long run, at 18 dollars for 250 ml I'd say it better work lol! Is GH 3 part the nutes you use? I had to go with Canna products as it's highly recomended by everyone on here that uses coco products for a beginner.

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Ne0.,
It sounds like you are taking all the correct steps and have researched things pretty thoroughly. You definitely want to start lite on the nutes and let the plant be your guide. I gave mine a classic case of nute burn...not bad, but definitely excessive amounts of nutes. The plants pulled through just fine, but the flush could have been avoided if I had started a bit lower on my amounts.
I usually research things to death, but this first grow was an exception to that rule. I didn't even know I was on my 1st grow until walking out on the patio one day and seeing a 2ft sativa- it's a long story. LOL
I might have been much more careful and researched more if:
A) I had known this grow had started.
B) I had been using something other than bagseed.

In fact, that might be the only recommendation I can make to you is possibly consider a trial run with bagseed before hitting quality seeds. I wanted to get a good feel for what the plants would require and how changes would affect those plants. I have 2 indica and a sativa and they all seem to require slightly different care.

Anyway, I am indeed using the 3pt.GH Flora nutes. I wanted to try Advanced Nutrients, but couldn't find everything I was looking for locally. I decided to go GH because there are multiple sources to obtain them within a 15 minute drive.

As an afterthought, I figured I would post a pic of my sativa.
As you can see, this girl is pretty stretchy and thin. In fact, I am going to have to secure this plant in the near future to keep her upright. There is about 2 more foot to this plant that you can't see (she's 6ft). This trial run has taught me a bunch about lighting and the effects of not enough light, too much distance from the lights, nutes, etc.
I might have felt bad doing this to genetically superior seed. That's OK though, I now know what NOT to do on the next go-round. Of course, once I change my lighting to HID (I'm using only T5 now), I'm sure there will be some more trial and error along with an angry plant or 2- you gotta learn somehow.

Stonefish said:

As an afterthought, I figured I would post a pic of my sativa.
As you can see, this girl is pretty stretchy and thin. In fact, I am going to have to secure this plant in the near future to keep her upright. There is about 2 more foot to this plant that you can't see (she's 6ft). This trial run has taught me a bunch about lighting and the effects of not enough light, too much distance from the lights, nutes, etc.
I might have felt bad doing this to genetically superior seed. That's OK though, I now know what NOT to do on the next go-round. Of course, once I change my lighting to HID (I'm using only T5 now), I'm sure there will be some more trial and error along with an angry plant or 2- you gotta learn somehow.

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Doesn't look to shabby, how far along is it do you think? I have tried to grow bagseed, I just havn't had any luck at all with it. I think the seeds just wern't viable, and the ones that probally were wern't germinated correctly. I've tried the soak in water trick, and also the paper towel thing, I think I might actually have some bag seeds from some crappy swag I picked up getting ready to pop out some roots, but its been about 5 days since I put them in the towel.

I just put like 30 seeds in a square towel and gave them 2 layers on each side. Rolled it up loosely and put it in a little shot glass with about a quarter of an inch of water and put it in my water heater closet where it is pitch black. I check it once a day and unfold the towel to see how they are doing, the towel is staying really damp and has started to smell a little moldy. The only difference I can see in the seeds is that they have started to swell up and I see white growth looking stuff on a few of the seeds (sort of looks a little like an algae or something) I'm assuming the seeds are finally starting to crack and its the root, but I won't know until I see the roots come out. Either the seeds are just super duper hard and the roots are having problems pushing out or the seeds suck, or there is something else going on, maybe my water sucks.

I've gotten 1 seed to actually produce a root, that was when I was using the soak method, the seed definately cracked, and I might have jumped the gun in putting it in some soil, because I week later it still hadn't popped out on an 18-6 schedule. I had it in a solo cup with some slits in the bottom for drainage, them I put a sheet of saran wrap over the lid to keep the humidity in the cup, I even went in there and exhaled into the cup and covered it back up to put some carbon dioxide in there and insure the air didnt get stale in there. That little bugger never popped out it was like a week and It was only lightly covered with dirt, after 2 weeks I was just fed up and i just dug it out to see what the deal was, the thing's root was only like a centimeter long so I tossed it.

Only thing I can think of that happened is that the seeds were just really crappy, or the temperature drop when the lights went off was too drastic(had it in a bathroom we never use, with the door close, got kinda chilly in there with our AC going). Either way I think I'll have more luck with some seeds I know are actually viable, and I'll have them in a more controlled enviroment (my grow cab) and possibly buy a heat pad as I've heard it boosts root growth and germination rates. My bad luck with seedlings is also what spurred me to get that rizotonic too, when I saw in the description to put some on seeds to boost growth and increase germ rates I was like "Sold!"

Anyway sorry for rambling on, haha.

Ne0. said:

Doesn't look to shabby, how far along is it do you think? I have tried to grow bagseed, I just havn't had any luck at all with it.

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Well, I guess she could be worse. Now that I think about it, she has been thru some tough times. It's now 28 days into 12/12. It went thru around 45 days of veg in the severe heat outdoors while being watered with water at a ph of 9.2. I guess that explains why the lower leaves were turning yellow.
**note to self- good ph meters are worth the coin.**
After all of this, I then mistakenly OD'ed this plant with nutes the 1st week of 12/12. Had to do a 12 gallon flush and figure I lost at least 1 week of progress due to plant stress and yet another rookie mistake along the way. It's been an educational grow, if nothing else.

I have a small bottle of bagseed that have been randomly collected over an extended period of time. These things could be up to 5 years old. I guess I got lucky that I ended up with 3 females out of 5 seeds. One seed was DOA and another went male recently and had to be terminated. I have a sickly skunk that I need to try and save. It has been badly stunted from the heat, the water, and a lack of nutrients. It gets a flush tomorrow and I will see if it improves. I feel I have gained some useful knowledge from unintentionally abusing my plants.
I suppose that your seeds could be bad but seems as tho something else is going on. I hate to say it, but most of my problems along the way have been PH related, not that I am suggesting that is the problem here.

Stonefish said:

Well, I guess she could be worse. Now that I think about it, she has been thru some tough times. It's now 28 days into 12/12. It went thru around 45 days of veg in the severe heat outdoors while being watered with water at a ph of 9.2. I guess that explains why the lower leaves were turning yellow.
**note to self- good ph meters are worth the coin.**
After all of this, I then mistakenly OD'ed this plant with nutes the 1st week of 12/12. Had to do a 12 gallon flush and figure I lost at least 1 week of progress due to plant stress and yet another rookie mistake along the way. It's been an educational grow, if nothing else.

I have a small bottle of bagseed that have been randomly collected over an extended period of time. These things could be up to 5 years old. I guess I got lucky that I ended up with 3 females out of 5 seeds. One seed was DOA and another went male recently and had to be terminated. I have a sickly skunk that I need to try and save. It has been badly stunted from the heat, the water, and a lack of nutrients. It gets a flush tomorrow and I will see if it improves. I feel I have gained some useful knowledge from unintentionally abusing my plants.
I suppose that your seeds could be bad but seems as tho something else is going on. I hate to say it, but most of my problems along the way have been PH related, not that I am suggesting that is the problem here.

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Are PH strips or the fish water drip sufficient enough to test the PH of nute solutions?

Ne0. said:

Are PH strips or the fish water drip sufficient enough to test the PH of nute solutions?

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I suppose that you would be OK with those although there is room for error. I tried the test drops first- I was somewhere between 6.0 and 6.4 with my nutes but had no clue what my tap water was since the kit didn't go that high. I never tried the strips. I then purchased a cheap PH pen. This worked well for a week and then started drifting very badly. I would have to calibrate it every few days. I finally broke down and spent the money on a good meter. Let me save you some trouble- if you decide you aren't satisfied with drops or strips, do yourself a favor and don't buy a cheap pen tester. Any product with a 30 day warranty is not designed to live long and function well. Just spend the money up front for a good one.