first time cloning(and first grow) my babies keep suiciding! help!

People, you can root a cutting by leaving it in plain old tapwater. Chlorine and all unless your water is from Uzbekistan. Change the water regularly, don't just add to it. Leave it in a dim area but it has to have light. Roots WILL begin but you MUST be patient. People want to cut it and three days later have it in DWC or in the dirt and leaves growing. Rockwool sucks - period. It retains moisture for sure and that can be bad. It encourages unwanted bacterial growth after a while and who needs any of that crap? Use plastic beer cups and water and clone away. Just be patient. It might take a week or 10 days but when they start they take off. When you see roots, and a lot of them, then plant her.

PLAIN water. No nutes!!!!!! No rooting hormones needed either.

thats awesome, i going to try this..

hotrodharley said:

People, you can root a cutting by leaving it in plain old tapwater. Chlorine and all unless your water is from Uzbekistan. Change the water regularly, don't just add to it. Leave it in a dim area but it has to have light. Roots WILL begin but you MUST be patient. People want to cut it and three days later have it in DWC or in the dirt and leaves growing. Rockwool sucks - period. It retains moisture for sure and that can be bad. It encourages unwanted bacterial growth after a while and who needs any of that crap? Use plastic beer cups and water and clone away. Just be patient. It might take a week or 10 days but when they start they take off. When you see roots, and a lot of them, then plant her.

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I used to think the say way about rockwool. After I took my first 100% successful batch of rockwool clones.. my opinion turned a 180 overnight. However, it took me years to perfect each step of my cloning process. In my opinion 90% of successful cloning using rockwool is in the prep work.

I'm addressing its use by novices. Same with expensive LED versus cheap HPS/MH and complicated hydro systems or growing in straight coco. Remember, this is "Newbie Central".

Newbies, remember KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid.

hotrodharley said:

PLAIN water. No nutes!!!!!! No rooting hormones needed either.

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I have been completely flummoxed by the fact that I can take a cutting, put it in plain filtered tap water (6.5 out of our whole house filter) and watch it stay green for weeks. (no roots though, I haven't exchanged the h2o either until it gets a bit cloudy)/

I have repeatedly done this with about 30 cuttings I have taken which went tits up in rockwool, an Octo-cloner, rooting plugs, sterile sand, perlite, vermicuite, and potting seed fake soil. Put 'em back in water and they bounce back for the most part.

I haven't yet had any roots show even after two weeks though.

I am attempting to clone a Pure Sativa seeded, 2 month vegging set of a dozen plants rooted from 20 yr old seeds.Being that old I honestly didn't think any of them would sprout since they have been frozen, defrosted, refrigerated, refrozen. left at room temperature for years, and otherwise received nothing but grief from me.

But of those that have rooted, nearly 60% is my guess, the moms (and pops) are vigorous, tall, strong, green, from the get go, very little done to the organic soil they are growing in. No parasites, mites, or other nasties.

But I am totally baffled that I cannot get even one cutting to root. (I am keeping my fingers crossed because an hour ago I checked the ph in the Octo-cloner, took out 7 of the 8 cuttings (they all wilted and just looked awful, but one has sprouted 1/4 inch roots and it's my first in over a month of trying so I don't want to jinx it). I'm ALMOST tempted to take it from the Octo-cloner and put it in plain tap water for the duration of its rooting out b 4 planting in Naturegrow soil and the 18/6 fluoro lights.

I am going to try again with the plain tap water, exchanging it every few days as you suggest and see if that works. What a great no maintenance way to go if it does.

When all else fails, amigo, try an aerocloner. They aren't 100% and you have to adjust the mister nozzles to ensure complete coverage but they do work. Make your cutting, put it in a neoprene collar and insert in the aerocloner.

hotrodharley said:

When all else fails, amigo, try an aerocloner. They aren't 100% and you have to adjust the mister nozzles to ensure complete coverage but they do work. Make your cutting, put it in a neoprene collar and insert in the aerocloner.

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HRH- I have had an Octo-cloner for three weeks, and of the 30 or so cuttings I've put in the collars not one has shown even the vestiges of a root. Yesterday one cutting began to show the 'bumps' and this morning there are 1/8-1/4 inch rootlets beginning. That's the only one that has done anything. All the rest I discarded after three weeks due to the mushy stem ends which seemed to end all hope of roots.

The single nozzle does a good job of coverage. I have a minute timer on the aerocloner that turns the pump on for one minute and off for 4 minutes, which I added after the second week didn't produce any roots at all while being on constantly for two weeks, water change excepted. Maybe not as good as one with multiheads?

I have an air stone in the res as well, so there is always lots of bubbling fresh air in the H2 O.

I still think Pure Sativa is nearly impossible to clone but this one that has roots now may prove me wrong. I'll see how it fares over the next few days, and I am nervous as hell that it is going to go tits up if I even touch it for tranplant too early (or too late).

Really need to get someone with pure sativa experience to determine my chances of saving this strain--- which is nearly extinct ----since I can't find any seed that is guaranteed pure Sativa.

But thx for the reply.

I still suggest checking your spray pattern.Cheaper units are thrown together. I had to adjust mine several times to get any real coverage. Your one success shows it can be done.

And having been born and raised on the Mexican border with work and travel in Mexico many times I have a wee bit of experience with real sativas going back to 1966. I'm no expert mind you but . . . . .. The stuff didn't make into this century because of man.

hotrodharley said:

I still suggest checking your spray pattern.Cheaper units are thrown together. I had to adjust mine several times to get any real coverage. Your one success shows it can be done.

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I didn't buy it until I saw the video of the spray pattern, and it looked every bit as good as multiple heads. You can see the pattern on the Octo-cloner website.


Let me know if you think it is insufficient. As you mentioned the single cutting that has rootlets on it proves that the coverage is there. I've put two more cuttings in today that my 55 # puppy from a lower branch that broke off when he went thrashing thru the fence so I'll see how they do.

The H2o temp is 82 degrees, slime free, and controlled. The ambient temp is around 75 as it sits on the basement floor, a natural heat sink.

I have a dome over three of the cuttings to see if that helps. I spray with plain h2o several times a day.

Are you saying that my seeds are not pure sativa, that the strain no longer exists?

I'm saying you need to check the actual spray pattern inside of your actual unit. If it has a removable top take it off and place a piece of glass or Plexiglass over it and turn it on. Watch for the very second it sprays. If it doesn't immediately cover the entire pane then it needs to be adjusted until it does. And I have no idea if your strain no longer exists. I'm good but not that good.

Done. Spray is coming out the circumference under the piece of glass I placed on top. I'd say the coverage is fine. I have moved to a minute timer. 1 on 4 off since the 24 hours on didn't do anything. And I'm not sure why a stem would need 24 hour spray. The one cutting that has small rootlets on it, (they aren't getting any longer) was under the on/off timer.

Just thought you were saying that 'man' has wiped out pure sativa.

hotrodharley said:

PLAIN water. No nutes!!!!!! No rooting hormones needed either.

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best advice i ever got about cloning, but it was more along the lines of "You don't need that shit!" So till this day all i do is take cuttings cut at angle and and throw into my home made cloner with just a an air stone and non ph'd TAP water, and almost 98% of the time all my clones root, the other 2% is due to human error, like getting high while cloning and cutting your finger with the razor!

Here is where I heard about the same advice and turned my "non-working" cloner into a machine that worked. On Alaska tap water. I had already started using straight water thanks tosome parties here.

I worked as a RN for many years. I had access to RO water from a dialysis clinic. It got old - and I am old - hauling that crap. Especially the winter of 2011-2012 when we broke the all-time snow record for South Central AK at 158" at my house and the airport both. So I broke down when it needed water one night and added tap water. Never switched back. Had to de-calcify it a couple times. Easy with white vinegar. Disinfect with bleach at the same time (bleach:water at 1:100). But beware and rinse well!!!! Vinegar or bleach to the roots in any dilution is fatal. To nearly any plant including desert weeds! Rinse 3 or 4 times and go to town again.

smokefacekillah said:

best advice i ever got about cloning, but it was more along the lines of "You don't need that shit!" So till this day all i do is take cuttings cut at angle and and throw into my home made cloner with just a an air stone and non ph'd TAP water, and almost 98% of the time all my clones root, the other 2% is due to human error, like getting high while cloning and cutting your finger with the razor!

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About 80% of those responding to my frustration with cloning have been similar to yours. I have an aero cloner, two air stones so the h20 bubbles a lot and cuts down or eliminates slime altogether, H20 is at 6.5. NOT ONE ROOT in nearly 4 weeks. Cloner is sterile.

I am even more now than ever convinced that these Sativa seeds I rooted outdoors, now vigorous, 4' tall, and green with no bugs, or parasites, mold or mites, in organic soil, are nearly impossible to clone, success rates very very low. I have one that is now showing 1/8 " roots as of Friday, last week and have not gotten any longer.

I started taking cuttings after 16 days of growing from seed, and thruout the last two months, the latest yesterday. Of the 50 or so I have taken from a dozen moms or pops, many stayed nice and green, the lower leaves, never yellowing (Yellowing of lower leaf I understand is a good sign, giving up its own life to feed the root cells). After three weeks I pulled them out of the vermiculite they were happy in, and put them in the Octo-cloner where they died one after the other.

Whatever plants your successful experience has brought you, you would not be able to do that with these cuttings. I have offered to send them to anyone willing to try. So far, no takers.

hotrodharley said:

Here is where I heard about the same advice and turned my "non-working" cloner into a machine that worked. On Alaska tap water. I had already started using straight water thanks tosome parties here.

I worked as a RN for many years. I had access to RO water from a dialysis clinic. It got old - and I am old - hauling that crap. Especially the winter of 2011-2012 when we broke the all-time snow record for South Central AK at 158" at my house and the airport both. So I broke down when it needed water one night and added tap water. Never switched back. Had to de-calcify it a couple times. Easy with white vinegar. Disinfect with bleach at the same time (bleach:water at 1:100). But beware and rinse well!!!! Vinegar or bleach to the roots in any dilution is fatal. To nearly any plant including desert weeds! Rinse 3 or 4 times and go to town again.

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Vinegar is routinely used to lower the ph of H2o. As is lemon juice. When I take a cutting and put it in ph lowered h2o, They stay green and vibrant. Are you saying using vinegar in that dilution to get ph down is going to be fatal to the cuttings? I haven't had that happen yet.

Just in an aerocloner setting. I use vinegar to lower the pH in my hydro setups. In fact I use unfiltered apple cider vinegar. The plants like it better than straight white vinegar I think.

hotrodharley said:

Just in an aerocloner setting. I use vinegar to lower the pH in my hydro setups. In fact I use unfiltered apple cider vinegar. The plants like it better than straight white vinegar I think.

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Just got a gallon of unfiltered ACV, so I'll use that next.

4nikator said:

About 80% of those responding to my frustration with cloning have been similar to yours. I have an aero cloner, two air stones so the h20 bubbles a lot and cuts down or eliminates slime altogether, H20 is at 6.5. NOT ONE ROOT in nearly 4 weeks. Cloner is sterile.

I am even more now than ever convinced that these Sativa seeds I rooted outdoors, now vigorous, 4' tall, and green with no bugs, or parasites, mold or mites, in organic soil, are nearly impossible to clone, success rates very very low. I have one that is now showing 1/8 " roots as of Friday, last week and have not gotten any longer.

I started taking cuttings after 16 days of growing from seed, and thruout the last two months, the latest yesterday. Of the 50 or so I have taken from a dozen moms or pops, many stayed nice and green, the lower leaves, never yellowing (Yellowing of lower leaf I understand is a good sign, giving up its own life to feed the root cells). After three weeks I pulled them out of the vermiculite they were happy in, and put them in the Octo-cloner where they died one after the other.

Whatever plants your successful experience has brought you, you would not be able to do that with these cuttings. I have offered to send them to anyone willing to try. So far, no takers.

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I'm no expert, but just by watching how aero cloners & similar sprayer cloners work, I just don't like them, I see it like this when your thirsty you want to drink water not have some one spray it in your face. just take out your sub-pump and raise your water level so the roots are like almost touching the water, I think this is a better way for the plant to receive constant oxygen with just the airstones, thats how i do it, it wouldn't hurt to try, I mean it's worked with at least like 4 strains that I have tried.