First Time Grower, G13 Feminized

supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
saw one more microscopic white thing walking on the top of a leaf. spider mite, i presume. sprayed w/ Don't Bug Me. don't see any more of them. sprayed under plant sorta thoroughly w/ mid-5's pH water.

some of the leaves from right around the heat stress on june 4th have obvious chunks missing, although they are long since covered by newer & denser canopy up above.

a few of the upper leaves are coming out missing the very tip of the leaf. definitely not eaten by pests. possibly a nute deficiency...? i wish i knew what this was called so i could research it more.

*damn*, this plant is growing quickly, and drinking/eating quickly. i never guessed that the growth rate would be so exponential or so accelerated. the xylem is freaky thick for a plant this size. i find it funny myself. it's like a beefed-up/fortified freak of nature.

i took a 20"x24" mirror & cut four irregular triangles out of it, appx 2"x6"x7" each. those four are now sitting at a reclined angle on the dirt and reflecting UFO light to the g13 undersides. extremely great light coverage all around, especially for a first try. if/when i cut out some more strategic mirror pieces, i should be able to keep this plant very well lit all the way through harvest time.

temperature between 72 and 75 fahrenheit seems to be the optimum temperature for this plant.

might be forgetting something, but that's plenty for now. more 2moro.
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
- i checked runoff water for the first time. i don't really know how to interpret these numbers for runoff, but here they are for future use: 6.46 pH, 3501 ppm, light brown transparent color.

- my container is a 5-gallon bucket sitting in another 5-gallon bucket. the inner bucket has a couple dozen 1/4" holes on the sides, about 2" from the bottom and no holes on the actual bottom.

- explosive growth! new foliage is nice and green everywhere. some of the tippety tips of the leaves are a lighter color but i consider this within a normal healthy range.

- mixed up 2 gallons of 50ppm jack's classic grow/20-20-20 nutes in a 5.7pH solution for next several waterings. trying to get into the habit of watering right when i turn the lights off.

- during the first couple of weeks i was worried about losing leaves but i haven't lost one yet. some of the lower leaves touch the ground. i try to gently dig out space for em occasionally.

- when the temp exceeds 26F, the plant seems to droop some and even taller leaves touch the ground. at 22F to 24F it seems quite stiff and upright especially w/ fan venting.

- i still don't understand the purpose of the smaller leaves popping out where the branches come off the tree trunk. lighting up the plant from the side makes them big. these are useful, right?

- plant is slightly off-center in the pot. hopefully this won't cause asymmetric root probs. also i wish i knew how big the roots are underground, just to know if they'll have enough room.

- my darkness cover at night is yet another 5-gallon bucket, upside down on top of the grow bucket. at the current rate of growth the plant will outgrow this cover in a day or 2, meaning its leaves will be wide enough to touch the sides of the cover. i'll probably get some cardboard sheets & make a 3ft square box as a new darkness cover to hang over grow bucket at night.

-plant height is 4 or 5 inches and climbing daily. plant "wingspan" at the 2 widest leaves is 9 or 10 inches.
 
Dr Gruber

Dr Gruber

Well-Known Member
supersymmetry said:
- i checked runoff water for the first time. i don't really know how to interpret these numbers for runoff, but here they are for future use: 6.46 pH, 3501 ppm, light brown transparent color.That seems extremly high for a PPM reading....if thats true flush-flush-flush.

- my container is a 5-gallon bucket sitting in another 5-gallon bucket. the inner bucket has a couple dozen 1/4" holes on the sides, about 2" from the bottom and no holes on the actual bottom.As long as you have good run off its okay. But you might want some holes in the bottom to help that.

- explosive growth! new foliage is nice and green everywhere. some of the tippety tips of the leaves are a lighter color but i consider this within a normal healthy range.

- mixed up 2 gallons of 50ppm jack's classic grow/20-20-20 nutes in a 5.7pH solution for next several waterings. trying to get into the habit of watering right when i turn the lights off.the nutes will also lower the PH so check again after you add them. Always water in morning..when plants get big and buds are everywhere the chance of mold or root rot is very high.

- during the first couple of weeks i was worried about losing leaves but i haven't lost one yet. some of the lower leaves touch the ground. i try to gently dig out space for em occasionally.

- when the temp exceeds 26F, the plant seems to droop some and even taller leaves touch the ground. at 22F to 24F it seems quite stiff and upright especially w/ fan venting.

- i still don't understand the purpose of the smaller leaves popping out where the branches come off the tree trunk. lighting up the plant from the side makes them big. these are useful, right?Yes they are...plant will use them as energy of it doesnt need them...so dont trim them.

- plant is slightly off-center in the pot. hopefully this won't cause asymmetric root probs. also i wish i knew how big the roots are underground, just to know if they'll have enough room.I have that problem all the time...have never heard of it causing problems.

- my darkness cover at night is yet another 5-gallon bucket, upside down on top of the grow bucket. at the current rate of growth the plant will outgrow this cover in a day or 2, meaning its leaves will be wide enough to touch the cover. i'll probably get some cardboard sheets & make a 3ft square box as a new darkness cover to hang over grow bucket at night.
Click to expand...
Not sure about what you are doing without pics but the plant does need fresh air at night also....
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
replying to dr.gruber's info

the 3501ppm: well i mean the water has tons of soil particles dissolved in it when it's coming out the bottom. wouldn't you expect that to artificially raise the ppm count really high? it sort of makes sense. i feel like it doesn't matter because i just dump the runoff down the drain anyway. i don't re-use it because it gets to be high in salts or something, isn't that right? mixing up a new batch of water is no problem anyway.

the order in which i mix up the feed water is this: 1) check my tap water. it's usually around 48ppm/7.2pH or in that ballpark. 2) add whatever ppm of nutrition i'm looking to add, like in this case i wanted to add 50ppm nutrition, regardless of what it does to the pH. usually it lowers the pH to appx 6.75 and the ppm is now 98 (48 from tap, 50 from nutes). 3) let that mixture even out, with about 2 minutes of shaking, and then check pH. it's usually too high, so i add a few drops pH-down until i'm between 5.5 and 6.0 pH. dr. greenthumb specifically said "no more than 5.7". it takes roughly 5ppm of pH-down to achieve that. so now the grand total in this example was 103ppm (48 from tap, 50 from nutes, 5 from pH-down) and 5.72pH. close enough for me! BTW at the other end of the nutrition spectrum, perhaps for use later in the plant's life cycle, i've noticed a nice little "all fives" coincidence... with my tap water, 555 ppm of nutrition works out to 5.55pH with no pH adjustment needed.

watering time: a few pages ago i asked about watering in the day or night and i could've sworn you said night, but your post isn't there anymore. that's the advice i was following for about a week now, watering when i turned the lights off. i understand what you're saying about mold & root rot, but bottom line, day or night? i will look around the 'net to get other tried&true strategies on this

venting at night: yeah of course i understand the thing needs to breathe even when it's sleeping. i go about it in various ways, depending on temp/humidity circumstances & common sense. either keep a fan running nonstop nearby, or peek inside the cover to check temp and exhale at it a couple times, which also gives it a shot of carbon dioxide. it has no probs breathing at night so far.

pics: yeah i'm way behind, because i don't have a simple way to upload them. it's a pain in the ass. i gotta take screenshots of my Canon camera with my cellphone camera. then i gotta go through a very tedious hit-or-miss uploading process because Android 2.2.2 (cellphone operating system) doesn't have a decent web browser with full computer features. so i've been putting it off coz it gives me a f***ing headache to think about, but i do have nightly shots, mostly red looking pics in the LED light. i don't really take daylight or flash pics yet, but i will eventually.

thanks for your continued help dr.gruber! the more info you can give me, the better. right now the g13 plant seems very happy, so i'm happy. but i'm sure i'm missing out on lots of things that could optimize the g13's future...
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
IMG_20110614_000544.jpgIMG_20110614_010944.jpg
ok here ya go, from a few minutes ago. DAY 28.
pic 2 - some nodes underneath. 4 sets of nodes are visible from top to bottom
pic 1 - on the right side maybe you can see a leaf that grew without a tip. i got about half a dozen missing tips like that, but all newer leaves up above are coming out normal right now. pointing straight down the photo is another tip-less leaf. remember they grew out like that. they were *not* eaten by pests. i suspect a bad batch of water right around that time was to blame. is it a good size for day 28? all i know is that it's growing very quickly every day. at this rate it might be twice as big in a week. my expectations are LOW as usual, so i'm not sweating it. the plant is doing great!
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
no prob. i just totally appreciate yr help and anyone else who wants to chime in

right now i can't decide if i wanna drop $300 on a 2nd 90w UFO light, or continue to use mirrors through to the end. i got UFO #1 on sale for $250. the chances of that happening again are slim to none. or, could drop twice as much on a 180w...? that would be nice but it's a lot of dough and i don't want to go overboard - if my grow fails, then i'm stuck w/ tons of lights & back to square one. eh, we'll see... for now there's plenty of light & my crazy mirrors to focus it around...
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
IMG_20110615_160804.jpgIMG_20110615_160827.jpg

sure. i took these very quickly coz it's nighttime for the plant for 2 more hrs, so they're not great pics. if you need a specific zoom shot or something let me know. edit: this is late into day 29.
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
there are a lot of smaller leaves touching the dirt on the bottom. i dug out space for 'em as best as i could, like maybe 1/4" - 1/2" inch. some are still touching though. that's as far as i'm willing to dig, so i don't upset any shallow roots that might be right under there.

a couple of earlier leaves from like week 1 or 2 have one leaf blade wilting from the edge towards the vein. the blades are still green in the middle. all their surrounding leaves & other blades on the same leaf look healthy. there are no pests visible. i don't know why it's happening or what i could do. i should try to get an up-close look underneath tomorrow. that's the way it goes, i guess...?

i'm not an insect expert so this is a wild guess, but there are occasionally some gnats or fruit flies, black in color, different types, from like 1/32" to 1/8". basically from day 1 and they seem to want light or water, not the plant. they hang out on walls a lot. some other ones are like 1/16", more grey or brown, and they like walking in the dirt. whenever i see 'em i squash/swat/spray 'em. tonight some kinda tiny winged thing like 1/8" long came in. white/grey body, flat sleek streamlined wings facing straight back. this one went right to the plant. i sprayed it off, it left, but then it came back & i lost track of it. the last time i saw it, it was among the higher leaves that are a few days old.

i can't see the tree trunk at the bottom anymore because it's totally surrounded by leaves.

how can you tell where the buds will eventually come out? i know it's from the center of a leaf at the end of a branch, but... which ones? all of 'em? only some of 'em? the ones higher up only? the ones up high, in the middle and down low? there's gotta be some basic formula to know ahead of time

to-do: get white fabric, hopefully reflective and breathable. hang this from galvanized chicken wire built into a circle like 3 or 4 feet around. this should make a very simple "modular grow room" from here on out. i like this idea for many reasons and can't think of a disadvantage yet. advantages: damn simple to build, easy to keep clean, thick enough to seal out light if it's multi-layered, easy to move around, good ventilation, smell control, doesn't have any wasted light on flat walls, because it's just one round wall just big enough to house a plant. i was gonna do the grow room w/ cardboard but it sounds too hard. i was also gonna do the grow room using the aluminum foil lined bathtub but that's not practical anymore because it's in the adjacent mini room with too many cracks in the walls and too far from the a/c unit.

thursday or friday could be the last day for the upside-down 5-gal bucket as a night cover (1230pm-630pm), coz the leaf span is getting too big, so it's pretty important i build that fabric grow room or something else, fairly soon.
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
i'll be taking smaller pics for a while. i've been taking 4416x3312 which is nice but the memory card is filling up and i'm too much of a cheapskate to buy another one. ha! oh well, 1600x1200 should be plenty, and rollitup dot org downsizes them even more, so who cares
 
Dr Gruber

Dr Gruber

Well-Known Member
supersymmetry said:
there are a lot of smaller leaves touching the dirt on the bottom. i dug out space for 'em as best as i could, like maybe 1/4" - 1/2" inch. some are still touching though. that's as far as i'm willing to dig, so i don't upset any shallow roots that might be right under there.

a couple of earlier leaves from like week 1 or 2 have one leaf blade wilting from the edge towards the vein. the blades are still green in the middle. all their surrounding leaves & other blades on the same leaf look healthy. there are no pests visible. i don't know why it's happening or what i could do. i should try to get an up-close look underneath tomorrow. that's the way it goes, i guess...?

i'm not an insect expert so this is a wild guess, but there are occasionally some gnats or fruit flies, black in color, different types, from like 1/32" to 1/8". basically from day 1 and they seem to want light or water, not the plant. they hang out on walls a lot. some other ones are like 1/16", more grey or brown, and they like walking in the dirt. whenever i see 'em i squash/swat/spray 'em. tonight some kinda tiny winged thing like 1/8" long came in. white/grey body, flat sleek streamlined wings facing straight back. this one went right to the plant. i sprayed it off, it left, but then it came back & i lost track of it. the last time i saw it, it was among the higher leaves that are a few days old.

i can't see the tree trunk at the bottom anymore because it's totally surrounded by leaves.

how can you tell where the buds will eventually come out? i know it's from the center of a leaf at the end of a branch, but... which ones? all of 'em? only some of 'em? the ones higher up only? the ones up high, in the middle and down low? there's gotta be some basic formula to know ahead of time

to-do: get white fabric, hopefully reflective and breathable. hang this from galvanized chicken wire built into a circle like 3 or 4 feet around. this should make a very simple "modular grow room" from here on out. i like this idea for many reasons and can't think of a disadvantage yet. advantages: damn simple to build, easy to keep clean, thick enough to seal out light if it's multi-layered, easy to move around, good ventilation, smell control, doesn't have any wasted light on flat walls, because it's just one round wall just big enough to house a plant. i was gonna do the grow room w/ cardboard but it sounds too hard. i was also gonna do the grow room using the aluminum foil lined bathtub but that's not practical anymore because it's in the adjacent mini room with too many cracks in the walls and too far from the a/c unit.

thursday or friday could be the last day for the upside-down 5-gal bucket as a night cover (1230pm-630pm), coz the leaf span is getting too big, so it's pretty important i build that fabric grow room or something else, fairly soon.
Click to expand...
Sounds like Fungus Gnats...i have them all the time. You can try mosquito dunks...they are cheap and easy to use. Probably get them at lowes or any garden center. You crumble them up in water wait for them to disolve and water plant. You can also crumble up a t-spoon worth and top dress your soil so it get watered in all the time. Do this every 2 -3 weeks and you will see a huge drop in numbers of Gnats. I also use a spray to kill the adult ones that are flying around. You can also use sticky traps to get the adult flying ones.
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
cool thx. i don't know if that's what they are, but i will keep this in mind. their numbers are pretty low, like 0 or 1 or 2 at a time.

there's been a few days of relative "cool", and by that i mean high around 90F and low around 65F. starting today, weather.com's 10 day forecast is right back to mid 90s and lows of like 72. it's really not the heat that drives me crazy, but the high humidity. grrrrr
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
too much and too little?

too much:
i've been watering every day, a couple of times a day, about 32oz per day. sometimes the top soil gets dry around the edges of the bucket and sometimes not. according to online info i read, this might be way too much. i will try a full day with no water, to let the top surface of the soil get completely dry everywhere.

too little:
i'm coming up on 3 weeks in Ocean Forest soil. up till a few days ago i was watering with pH-adjusted tap water w/ no nutes. last few days i've been using a 50ppm nute mix. after the upcoming drought day described above, i will gradually raise the nutrition ppm in like 75ppm increments until i see adverse fx because by now i think 50ppm is too low.
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
ok, you want low budget?? i'll give you low budget! my planned grow room now consists of two HULA HOOPS, hahah, and some... white curtain material between 'em, the kind they use for projector screens. i've bought everything, plus a stapler to work the fabric with. it'll be like a round room the perfect size for one plant. one hula hoop will be on top like a round curtain rod, and the other will be on the bottom, just to make sure the curtain keeps a uniform shape all the way down. the fabric is lightweight, reflective, and lightproof. you put a flashlight right up to it and you can't see any light through it. it's a 4 1/2 foot roll. i don't know if 4 1/2 feet will be tall enough to fit a fully-blooming plant, but i'll worry about that later. the one shortcoming is that i don't have anything sturdy to hang the top hula hoop from on the ceiling. but, you know... i'll improvise the hell outta something when there's a job to be done, so, i'll probably hang it from the ceiling fan. you gotta do what you gotta do, and that's what i gotta do. hopefully i will be building this tomorrow and giving it a trial run soon. the plant is growing laterally very fast, as well as gaining great height, so this bigger room is needed asap. maybe if the "room" is centrifugally balanced i can have the world's first rotating grow room... lol... i think it's a great plan. yeah i'm fuckin' nuts, so what
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
holy cow, i just now noticed something new... ok down low where the cotyledon was, and where the first few leaves came out in the early days, i said a few days ago the tree trunk was totally hidden by expanding leaves, right? well, now i'm noticing some pretty substantial branches coming out there! i think there are 4 main branches off the trunk, almost horizontal, and they split up as they grow out too! wow, this is one of the densest plants i have seen, as far as branching. should i be focusing my light further up on newer foliage or should i continue encouraging these lower branches? or both?

btw the new "room" made of hula hoops & a white curtain is half done already... i stapled the sheet all around one hoop. just gotta do the same 2moro w/ the other hoop, and then find a way to hang up the whole contraption. bedtime 4 now...zzzgk.
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
wow, i'm so proud of my little tree of nature. she's a hot little thing.

as i was watering just now, the g13 totally took on the appearance of a bush for the first time. the upper blades are comin out sleeker and longer all the time. i still see 7 per leaf. there is substantial bottom and side growth all around thanks to side mirrors, making it bushy-sided like a small decorative bush. the newer leaves at the bottom have 3 sorta fat blades.

that one white butterfly thing i saw the other day - i saw it again today and there is definitely one upper leaf blade w/ eat damage from below. it's a really small area. as long as i can kill that thing next time, i'm happy.

g13 went through drought day w/ no issues, so i should water it less frequently maybe. i have a gallon of 69ppm nute and another of 169ppm. i'll go thru those before mixing up any new batches.

definitely can't use the bucket cover anymore so i'll have to finish the hularoom before noon tomorrow.

ss
 
Dr Gruber

Dr Gruber

Well-Known Member
supersymmetry said:
wow, i'm so proud of my little tree of nature. she's a hot little thing.

as i was watering just now, the g13 totally took on the appearance of a bush for the first time. the upper blades are comin out sleeker and longer all the time. i still see 7 per leaf. there is substantial bottom and side growth all around thanks to side mirrors, making it bushy-sided like a small decorative bush. the newer leaves at the bottom have 3 sorta fat blades.

that one white butterfly thing i saw the other day - i saw it again today and there is definitely one upper leaf blade w/ eat damage from below. it's a really small area. as long as i can kill that thing next time, i'm happy.

g13 went through drought day w/ no issues, so i should water it less frequently maybe. i have a gallon of 69ppm nute and another of 169ppm. i'll go thru those before mixing up any new batches.

definitely can't use the bucket cover anymore so i'll have to finish the hularoom before noon tomorrow.

ss
Click to expand...
Let the soil dry somewhat between waterings. Not so dry that its cracking and pulling away from the sides of the pot but dry enough that you dont drown the roots by over watering. I go by the weight of the pot when wet versus when completely dry. You get a feel for it after awhile and you can get a good idea how much time before next watering.
 
supersymmetry

supersymmetry

Active Member
i agree, thx. right now the prob is i use the grow bucket inside another bucket underneath, so i can't visually see runoff. i need a wide plastic tupperware or something from lowe's garden center as a legit runoff plate and then i'll be in good shape.

ok well 9 more bungee cords to buy tomorrow and the new grow room & ufo light will be suspended from my ceiling fan. 5 to hang the upper hula hoop from the 5 blades, and 4 to hang the ufo light from the fan's 4 light fixtures. i need to make sure there's support under the light in case it falls, so it doesn;t crush my beautiful shrub. we should be good 2 go then. hula grow room is easily removable, easily retractable, and has side-sliding curtain. good features for a crazy homemade setup.
 
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