First time indoor grower, need help from experienced growers

I use Miracle-Gro moisture control, 0.18-0.10-0.10 no issues at all, only feed 24-8-16 plant food in veg when plants ask, usually though just tap water for 2 months.

I have to laugh when I mention I use it, and get told how awful it is for growing cannabis and I'll have nothing but problems.. wrong, I have nothing but thriving happy plants.

Hey everyone,

I wanted to provide an update to the thread for those that are interested.

The plant is still growing after the transplant, but the issue is still occuring, it's quite weird as the new growth is so luscious and nice and then fades hard in a few days.

Issue still is occuring from oldest to newest growth, and begins from the tip of the leaves and works it's way down the leaf towards the stem with no discernable pattern etc.

I keep thinking of mobile elements as it starts at the older growth and moves to newer growth, but I've ruled out everything, manganese maybe but seems like it doesn't fit.

So I think it's viral, bacterial or fungal, but still don't have enough knowledge on these issues to accurate identify.

The first 5 images are from the plant showing issues, the last picture is of a plant germinated at the same time/age, planted in the same medium with the same watering, transplanted at the same time and basically treated the same.

So I'm stumped still, the plant still grows healthy new shoots and the plant still dies off as it grows, who wants to take a crack?

Newfella21 said:

Hey everyone,

I wanted to provide an update to the thread for those that are interested.

The plant is still growing after the transplant, but the issue is still occuring, it's quite weird as the new growth is so luscious and nice and then fades hard in a few days.

Issue still is occuring from oldest to newest growth, and begins from the tip of the leaves and works it's way down the leaf towards the stem with no discernable pattern etc.

I keep thinking of mobile elements as it starts at the older growth and moves to newer growth, but I've ruled out everything, manganese maybe but seems like it doesn't fit.

So I think it's viral, bacterial or fungal, but still don't have enough knowledge on these issues to accurate identify.

The first 5 images are from the plant showing issues, the last picture is of a plant germinated at the same time/age, planted in the same medium with the same watering, transplanted at the same time and basically treated the same.

So I'm stumped still, the plant still grows healthy new shoots and the plant still dies off as it grows, who wants to take a crack?

Click to expand...

Low ph. What are you running? Just PH. Brand of nutes and medium are not needed.

MICHI-CAN said:

Low ph. What are you running? Just PH. Brand of nutes and medium are not needed.

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Ph is 6.3-6.6, I try to do a 2-2-1 cycle, like
1- 6.6
2- 6.3
3- 6.3

I try to aim for around 6.4ph in a runoff, but they do not get watered very often.

Here's a view of the whole 4x4 with wide angle lense, I'm trying to point to the two that have this issue in question.

EDIT:

Added close up of the other one in question that showed this issue before the current one was even germed, still grows and I'm still chopping off affected leaves, don't know why it won't die...

Newfella21 said:

Ph is 6.3-6.6, I try to do a 2-2-1 cycle, like
1- 6.6
2- 6.3
3- 6.3

I try to aim for around 6.4ph in a runoff, but they do not get watered very often.

Here's a view of the whole 4x4 with wide angle lense, I'm trying to point to the two that have this issue in question

Click to expand...

Adding the needed info. I only see fabric pots and water source as the next concerns. Tap or modified water?

MICHI-CAN said:

Adding the needed info. I only see fabric pots and water source as the next concerns. Tap or modified water?

Click to expand...

Was in a plastic pot before transplant last week.

Tap water from mains, comes out at a measely 45-50ppm, treated with chlorine and chlorimine.

Do the usual aeration for 24 hours, water reports from local authority peg CaCO3 (cal carbonate and an average of 20ppm, so there's only about 30ppm for everything else.

I've doing a few things, epsom salts and gypsum at a rate of 120ppm + 240ppm respectively, for all plants now, every other watering.

Have also now recently been using this powdered product (image attached), I'll sprinkle enough in the water to boost the ppm to 160-220 overall, it's a sprinkle compared to instructions on packaging, which calls for treated depleted soil, I'm just using it to boost trace minerals back up in the water,
Doing this about once every 2 weeks.


So far the whole garden seems to be running fine with this above, but still have these two plants showing issues.

They were really old seeds, I mean old 10-15 years, bad storage conditions, regularly exposed to heat, hell even when I initially started this journey the seed storage container had a few nasty looking ones in there and a bit of a smell, hence tried to used hydrogen peroxide to try and reduce any of those issues, but I just don't know enough about fungi or bacteria to pin it on them.

The plant has never been overwatered either, I'm damn familiar with doing that and have grown my skills in two months and 4 different germination sets 2nd pic is comparison to day 45 and day 21

Newfella21 said:

Was in a plastic pot before transplant last week.

Tap water from mains, comes out at a measely 45-50ppm, treated with chlorine and chlorimine.

Do the usual aeration for 24 hours, water reports from local authority peg CaCO3 (cal carbonate and an average of 20ppm, so there's only about 30ppm for everything else.

I've doing a few things, epsom salts and gypsum at a rate of 120ppm + 240ppm respectively, for all plants now, every other watering.

Have also now recently been using this powdered product (image attached), I'll sprinkle enough in the water to boost the ppm to 160-220 overall, it's a sprinkle compared to instructions on packaging, which calls for treated depleted soil, I'm just using it to boost trace minerals back up in the water,
Doing this about once every 2 weeks.


So far the whole garden seems to be running fine with this above, but still have these two plants showing issues.

They were really old seeds, I mean old 10-15 years, bad storage conditions, regularly exposed to heat, hell even when I initially started this journey the seed storage container had a few nasty looking ones in there and a bit of a smell, hence tried to used hydrogen peroxide to try and reduce any of those issues, but I just don't know enough about fungi or bacteria to pin it on them.

The plant has never been overwatered either, I'm damn familiar with doing that and have grown my skills in two months and 4 different germination sets

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I'm only trying to help. If I offended you? Please say so.

It would appear your water is stupid pure or PPM meter needs calibration. If correct. You have a cal/mag issue.

As for the not overwatering? Push a bamboo skewer all the way into your soil close to the stem when you think dry. I bet it is wet when removed. Like checking a cake. Wet toothpick? Not done. But honestly offering advice.

MICHI-CAN said:

I'm only trying to help. If I offended you? Please say so.

It would appear your water is stupid pure or PPM meter needs calibration. If correct. You have a cal/mag issue.

As for the not overwatering? Push a bamboo skewer all the way into your soil close to the stem when you think dry. I bet it is wet when removed. Like checking a cake. Wet toothpick? Not done. But honestly offering advice.

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No sorry, you didn't offend me at all , sorry if I'm a bit robotic in the lines, hoping to try and provide all the data I can to help out in the diagnosing

Yeah our water is stupid clean, like stupidly clean, it comes out at 7.8ph and using these trace elements helps me get it back down into the 6 range

I also use citric acid as ph down when just giving them plain water.

I was initially suspicious of calmag deficiency as well, as I have definitely had the issue in this grow, see first 2 images attached, I think it's mag in that one mostly, I was definitely guitly of overwatering at the start of this grow journey though, that plant is 57 days old now lol.

but all the other plants have come good with the above bandaid fixes whilst these other two are still struggling.

Third pic is the other two I've germed in the most recent set along with this problem child and the other healthy comparison from earlier.

The only difference between them is that I watered them a bit more often, didn't let the medium get as dry.

Could letting the medium dry out too cause it? It's weird though cos new growth is still so nice and it's growing ok after the transplant.

I've ruled out tobacco mosaic virus, anoerobic soil conditions as just didn't get wet enough, so it leads me to bacteria or fungi issue from the aged seeds

Newfella21 said:

No sorry, you didn't offend me at all , sorry if I'm a bit robotic in the lines, hoping to try and provide all the data I can to help out in the diagnosing

Yeah our water is stupid clean, like stupidly clean, it comes out at 7.8ph and using these trace elements helps me get it back down into the 6 range

I also use citric acid as ph down when just giving them plain water.

I was initially suspicious of calmag deficiency as well, as I have definitely had the issue in this grow, see first 2 images attached, I think it's mag in that one mostly, I was definitely guitly of overwatering at the start of this grow journey though, that plant is 57 days old now lol.

but all the other plants have come good with the above bandaid fixes whilst these other two are still struggling.

Third pic is the other two I've germed in the most recent set along with this problem child and the other healthy comparison from earlier.

The only difference between them is that I watered them a bit more often, didn't let the medium get as dry.

Could letting the medium dry out too cause it? It's weird though cos new growth is still so nice and it's growing ok after the transplant.

I've ruled out tobacco mosaic virus, anoerobic soil conditions as just didn't get wet enough, so it leads me to bacteria or fungi issue from the aged seeds

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Just my opinion. But wet roots. Borderline rot. Too common. Fabric pot in particular. Better for drip irrigation or a wet set. Not soil based. And my only and suggested band aid is 1tsp fish emulsion, 1/4 tsp epsoms salt to a quart of tap water. Spray plants early in light cycle. Once per day for 2 days in a row. Dump and clean spray bottle. Only good or2 days when mixed. Will improve health and stabilize till you figure your water schedule out. And roots can heal. May take 2 weeks if you get it right soon.

MICHI-CAN said:

Just my opinion. But wet roots. Borderline rot. Too common. Fabric pot in particular. Better for drip irrigation or a wet set. Not soil based. And my only and suggested band aid is 1tsp fish emulsion, 1/4 tsp epsoms salt to a quart of tap water. Spray plants early in light cycle. Once per day for 2 days in a row. Dump and clean spray bottle. Only good or2 days when mixed. Will improve health and stabilize till you figure your water schedule out. And roots can heal. May take 2 weeks if you get it right soon.

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That's for helping out and taking a look.

So I feel like wet roots/waterlogging ist the cause in this case, will try to deep dive into it.

Image 1 attached is all plants germed in January that have survived and with varying levels of overwatering evident, ages range from 45-57 days, only one from this group has the issue and is day 45.

Image 2 is february cohort and average age is 21-22 days, the main problem child is day 22 in this group, only one affected in this group.


Image 3 is the whole place together.

So I definitely had overwatering issues in Jan no doubt about it, just look at em - so tiny, nute and other issues galore.

February I got my watering game improved, and that's evident compared to jans effort, still only one showing issues.

Both of the ones showing issues have had the least amount of watering.

Images 4 and 5, the problem plant from febs run again, the process went as follows.

1.5% hydro peroxide solution in a shot glass for 14 hours, then in
dampened paper towel for 2 days.

Medium was moistened with a spray bottle for an even consistency on a flat tray, squeeze tested for run off, there wasn't any, then put into the pot, germed seed went in with about half inch of taproot and like 3 mls of water on top, domed for 2.5 days until true leaves showed some size increase, then dome removed and has been off since.

It was watered for the first time on like day 14 or so, no misting, no top ups no nothing, the other 3 did get about 25-30 mls each in total (1 shot glass roughly) of misting and dripping, spread out between day 10 and day 16, then watered day 17.

All the other 3 had the same initial medium moisture levels as the problem one, all sitting in same spot in the tent, same light wind humidity etc.

So atm the issue arises across spectrums of watering levels mainly less water, and is occuring in a single plant of each grow set.

The issue doesn't affect new growth, as its luscious and shows no signs of deficiency, but will make its way to the leaves within a few days.

I have used great white myco during transplanting to 5 gal pots, but issue presented before that.

Stumped though the issue is the most prominent on my least watered plant this year, if I gave it less water it would die, this was my test subject for the lowest watering levels, which makes me think the issue may be root dryness or other.

EDIT:

Just took a video to help show a bit more, first 3 plants were the most affected by overwatering in Jan, 4th was least watered from Jan.

5th most overwatered in Feb, last, least overwatered and the biggest problem child.

Have you checked thoroughly for bugs? Including roots when you transplanted. What did your roots look like?

hotrodharley said:

Have you checked thoroughly for bugs? Including roots when you transplanted. What did your roots look like?

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Fungus gnats a known issue for sure, I've got neem oil for if when the sticky traps don't succeed, but they have seemed to have gotten all of them, will need to see after the next watering though, the medium on this one was too dry for the gnats and they have barely had a look at problem girl.

Roots looked ok, but maybe 10% smaller than on the other plants transplanted at the same time, which is weird as it was equal first for the biggest prior to transplant, no signs of root rot and looked a good shade of white for all the plants moved, with no evident browning.

I did have some small green flying bugs that I've taken care of, but that was before the feb germ set and they predominantly only attacked the largest plant and ate at the leaves, Mosquitos and moths will make their way in but are swiftly delt with, I'm there every few hours.

Because the medium had such little water to start with, and of such low ppm and no watering prior to the symptoms showing on first set of leaves, I thought it might of been manganese, but doesn't quite meet the mark, I understood calcium was immobile so thought that would start at the top, unless the it's linked somehow, I'm still in the heavy research stage of figuring out nutrient relationship s

Newfella21 said:

Fungus gnats a known issue for sure, I've got neem oil for if when the sticky traps don't succeed, but they have seemed to have gotten all of them, will need to see after the next watering though, the medium on this one was too dry for the gnats and they have barely had a look at problem girl.

Roots looked ok, but maybe 10% smaller than on the other plants transplanted at the same time, which is weird as it was equal first for the biggest prior to transplant, no signs of root rot and looked a good shade of white for all the plants moved, with no evident browning.

I did have some small green flying bugs that I've taken care of, but that was before the feb germ set and they predominantly only attacked the largest plant and ate at the leaves, Mosquitos and moths will make their way in but are swiftly delt with, I'm there every few hours.

Because the medium had such little water to start with, and of such low ppm and no watering prior to the symptoms showing on first set of leaves, I thought it might of been manganese, but doesn't quite meet the mark, I understood calcium was immobile so thought that would start at the top, unless the it's linked somehow, I'm still in the heavy research stage of figuring out nutrient relationship s

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Try adding Great White or Xtreme Gardening Mykos. There’s definitely something going on at the root level. GW or Mykos and molasses once a week to feed those critters.

hotrodharley said:

Try adding Great White or Xtreme Gardening Mykos. There’s definitely something going on at the root level. GW or Mykos and molasses once a week to feed those critters.

Click to expand...

I hit em with the great white myco during transplant, during the move to the 5 gal pots, going to look to give em continued for a month to see if that will help, but I'm still perplexed.

Hey everyone, figured I'd post another update for those who are interested, the plant still lives!!

Haven't quite fixed the issue entirely, but seemed to have slowed it down a tonne, basically tried every remedy I could think of to try and fix it, including:

Adding gypsum and epsom salts to medium
Adding dolomite lime to medium
Feeding it more fish emulsion and bat guano feeds, seaweed tonic and some more great white myco.

Flushing the hell out of it with a excessive amount of water.

What really seemed to of made a difference was:
Used a trace elements foliar spray
Used a liquid copper fungicide spray

Plant started reacting well after using those two within 4 days of each other, that was a few weeks ago , so I'm thinking it's a manganese issue or a fungi issue, hit them last night with the trace elements again and will do the copper again in a week or two.

Overall, have to say garden is looking great compared to a month or so ago, feels good to see positive changes after trying to narrow down the issue, still learning as I go and enjoying the challenges, feel like I had the lighting set a bit low previously as I started playing with it and trying to push the garden and it reacted well, didn't think these decade+ old bad seeds were even going to grow so I'm pleased.

I wouldn't have other plants in there together, they aren't as resilient as cannabis to bugs and mildew. I'd switch to promix and use a good nutrient lineup too you're going to run into Nitrogen and CalMag problems later if you don't pick some up