PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Yeah! Another grower who has broken free from LED mind control. Welcome to the LED Outlaws
First time LED DIYER gathering thoughts on all white panel(s)
- Thread starter HiloReign
- Start date
SnotBoogie
Well-Known Member
Dont forget:
Thermal glue or epoxy
Kapton tape maybe, maybe not necessary with the stars
multimeter(!)
core wire for soldering.
Looked around this forum before I ordered and expected a newbie guide..haha. Ended up having to learn basic electronics to know what to order (Which was probably a good thing anyway, right?)
A quick guide to matching drivers and LEDs
Current: measurement does not change throughout the circuit. i.e LEDs rated for 350ma need a 350ma driver no matter how many there are.
Voltage: Look for the "Forward voltage" as mentioned above. add together the total forward voltage of your circuit to know what Output voltage your CC driver should be. 10 x 2v LED needs a ~20v driver.
Wattage: a rough guide to the ouput of the LED. again, add it up to find the total wattage your driver should be(I think?)
Hopefully some other LED newbs can save themselves a little time understanding the different terms when doing their first shop - I didnt know where to start
Thermal glue or epoxy
Kapton tape maybe, maybe not necessary with the stars
multimeter(!)
core wire for soldering.
Looked around this forum before I ordered and expected a newbie guide..haha. Ended up having to learn basic electronics to know what to order (Which was probably a good thing anyway, right?)
A quick guide to matching drivers and LEDs
Current: measurement does not change throughout the circuit. i.e LEDs rated for 350ma need a 350ma driver no matter how many there are.
Voltage: Look for the "Forward voltage" as mentioned above. add together the total forward voltage of your circuit to know what Output voltage your CC driver should be. 10 x 2v LED needs a ~20v driver.
Wattage: a rough guide to the ouput of the LED. again, add it up to find the total wattage your driver should be(I think?)
Hopefully some other LED newbs can save themselves a little time understanding the different terms when doing their first shop - I didnt know where to start
trevronious
Well-Known Member
I just finished my first ever DIY LED light also, using the entire Astir thread as reference along the way. SDS is doing some awesome stuff. My soldering is definitely less than desirable, but getting it working period was an accomplishment enough for me as a first timer. Ordered all of my LED supplies through Statis, and the heatsink also from Heatsink USA. I'm plenty happy with everything from both companies (not that I know what to look for, haha) and am looking forward to refining everything. The wait from China to USA kills me! Went with a fairly mixed spectrum, just as a 'starter' panel for all around growth. /rant. Just dropping by as a fellow first timer interested in an all white LED panel, best of luck sir/ma'am!
FranJan
Well-Known Member
Hey Hilo, Good Luck with the project. I was wondering if you had any spectral data on your whites? Do you know if they are phosphor conversions or RGB based LEDs? Complementary wavelengths or phosphor blends? Remote or local phosphors? Things like that. I'm very interested in trying to find out what white LED brand/manufacturing process would be the best for growing.
I've noticed you can get away with most white LEDs for vegging, but you're probably going to want to know what spectrums are being produced if you want to have a successful flowering cycle. For example a white LED based on complementary wavelengths would be weak for flowering if it's only outputting 480nm and 584nm. I see a lot of people tout white LEDs as some miracle, but I get a sense they think they're CFLs or producing true full spectrum light. They say use a NW/CW but never say which type/brand works best. They are not all the same is what I'm saying.
Oh and WWs can give quite a bit of FR/IR, depending on how they're made, but UV is another story it seems. Maybe a UV pumped white LED would be good for this, but I have no idea who makes any.
Happy Growing Hilo!
HiloReign
Well-Known Member
I'm quite sure it will work... I hope to refine what's already known about white LEDs and to possibly expand upon that. Should none of this work at all, I'd just say it was fun... Learning experiences alas!Ive got no doubt an all white panel will work. I used 3000-3500k and 5500-6500k in my LED grow. Well that was the general spectrums. It seems to change with each Chinese merchant you buy from.
Ah! Although it's too late for me to get another driver, I'm sure there will be more opportunities for me to pick the right oneNext time look on aliexpress/ alibaba for drivers, sorry I didn't read this before now. I am not saying go mean well, but don't even go that cheap piece of drivers! Too late it's fine, when you'll replace them
. Thank you kindly!I'm thinkin' we need a subforum, friend
! I just hope to be able to document this next panel from start to finish! Should the lights work out well, I'd like to build more-- but smaller LED devices. 6x1w white LED "spot" bulbs with flexible, extendable necks or 10x1w white LED "bars"... I'd like to completely envelope a plant in white light... just to see what it will do... I got a hunch they're going to love it...I know exactly what you mean by having to learn basic electronics hahaha! I've already spent hours and hours of reading... Definitely a good thing though! Thank you for the knowledge, it further clarifies the situation for me. Hopefully other DIYers can refer to this thread and utilize it.Dont forget:
Thermal glue or epoxy
Kapton tape maybe, maybe not necessary with the stars
multimeter(!)
core wire for soldering.
Looked around this forum before I ordered and expected a newbie guide..haha. Ended up having to learn basic electronics to know what to order (Which was probably a good thing anyway, right?)
A quick guide to matching drivers and LEDs
Current: measurement does not change throughout the circuit. i.e LEDs rated for 350ma need a 350ma driver no matter how many there are.
Voltage: Look for the "Forward voltage" as mentioned above. add together the total forward voltage of your circuit to know what Output voltage your CC driver should be. 10 x 2v LED needs a ~20v driver.
Wattage: a rough guide to the ouput of the LED. again, add it up to find the total wattage your driver should be(I think?)
Hopefully some other LED newbs can save themselves a little time understanding the different terms when doing their first shop - I didnt know where to start
Yes, indeed, SDS is one educated individual. I, too, drew inspiration from his thread. I hope your lights kill it, my friend. Thank you for stopping by.
SnotBoogie
Well-Known Member
You seem to know more than me! my comments were directed at people (like me) who are stumbling around the forums looking for info. I'll be reading your thread
HiloReign
Well-Known Member
Although most of what you ask for is over my head, I'm still waiting on an e-mail containing datasheets for the three different whites.
I've yet to see someone tout white LEDs as a miracle, but I do have a hunch they'll be a stepping stone. Also, being that this would be my first trial of white LEDs, I couldn't tell you which would be best. There's a ton more research I could've done before dropping some money... But, I could get a good look at a T-bone by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take a butcher's word for it.
blacktourmaline
Member
Whats up HiloReign, I have been using my own Mostly White DIY LEDs, XM-L Cool , neutral, and warm white chips, driven by Meanwell ELN-60-27d drivers at 2000ma per 8xm-l's. These XM-l chips are the best for DIY and plant growth the spectrum is super full and they work great! not to mention one XM-l can produce up to 1000lm each. I can get you specs etc for setting up your own, i have recently made a 32 chip XML white led with 16 cree XP-e reds and Luxeon 660nm chips. total lumens around 25,000lm. wattage around 200w. I am a firm believer in LED's and specifically DIY LED lights blow away any chinese light for power and lumens.
blacktourmaline
Member
Cree XP-e REds 620-630nm 700ma(good for veg light addition)- http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXPE.pdfCree Xm-L Whites-(scoll to bottom for wavelengths) http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXML.pdfPhilips Rebel 660nm 700ma(good for bloom)- http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/luxeon-rebel/luxeon-rebel-color#deep-redHeres a good site for supplies www.ledgroupbuy.com they also have inventronic 2100ma drivers that can drive up to 16 xm-l's and nice makers LED heatsinks with BJB solderless connectors
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
RGB leds have not any use for plant growth.It's easy to distinguish them from phosphor whites...They lack that yellow phosphor layer.One can see the chips .
I'm not sure what you mean here ....Remote or local phosphors ?
In fact white phosphor leds have a much better spectral quality ,for plant growth ,than almost any CFL ,T5 or even HID lamps... Yes not all i.e. WW are exactly the same...But give or take,more or less ,they do have a "common" spectral curve... HPS offers adequate flowering ,mostly by irradiating a lot of power at green & yellow/amber wl range....Not much of blues or reds in the mix... But they have high irradiances at those wls....Now ...What about using more appropriate wls ,but in lower power ? (white leds ) .. It seems that it is working really fine....
The future ( just my humble opinion ) is at special manufactured ,plant growth dedicated ,phosphor leds... Using the right chips to excitate the right phosphor blends .UVa 400nm ,445 nm & 455 nm chips will be providing all the right wls in the blue/violet region , while carefully selected & blended red & orange/yellow phosphors will provide all the rest of wls,needed.... Taking into account ,that phosphor leds (blue/uv chips with phosphor layer ) are the ones mostly under constant development and evolution,probably makes them the best available choice ,for utilising them into really advanced led grow lights ,which will be providing a true "full spectrum " (380 nm - 750 nm ) ,specialised for healthy plant growth and high yields ,harvested from . It's just another way of using leds... Actinics are also ok....But they are actinics ...And plants haven't evolved for millions of years under purple or pink light of just blue & red light... Saying or believing that ,all the rest wls are useless ,it's just an absolute statement ,based on ignorance only(or " limited knowledge " ,if you like it with other words )... Plants need white light (all wls ) ,no matter what ... Actually a bit more than plain white light ..(FR & UV )...
guod
Well-Known Member
local >> direct on the LED-Chip(Die)... standard for white leds
remote >> ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iq97uwE93o
http://www.molalla.net/members/leeper/L prize bulb.htm
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well,still with either remote or local phosphors , can have dedicated plant growth led lights..... Remote phosphor polymer covers.....Hmmmm...Not a bad idea at all... Protecting leds and supplying yellows/ambers/reds/FR at plants,at the same time ....Guod,what about absorbance (power losses ) of remote phosphors ? Any info there ? Great idea ,indeed....
guod
Well-Known Member
sorry, no other link for this..
but a other one
open source intematix design...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJLmVz3ggMg
internal...(only pics)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63572176@N08/sets/72157631971047738/
25 bucks @ lowes
but a other one
open source intematix design...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJLmVz3ggMg
internal...(only pics)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63572176@N08/sets/72157631971047738/
25 bucks @ lowes
guod
Well-Known Member
mostly the same for both tec...(stoke´s shift)>>biggest part
the rest is more or less equal, with a good reflection chamber for the remote phosphor.
pro for the remote tec
lower temp... phosphor loss(heat)... phosphor is not direct connect with the chip
MajorCoco
Well-Known Member
I've got a grow diary (in my sig) from a grow I did using all white LEDs. It worked really well, and I think it's a good way to go. Two 85W monster arrays (although I'll grant you that breaking that down into smaller wattage LEDs is a more efficient way to go!)
Feel free to check it out if you want to see what I got up to...I pulled 0.5g/W in the end, but it could have been higher if I'd done a better job, so that isn't the lights' fault. I did have some cfls at various stages too, but they didn't really add much over the LEDs..
Feel free to check it out if you want to see what I got up to...I pulled 0.5g/W in the end, but it could have been higher if I'd done a better job, so that isn't the lights' fault. I did have some cfls at various stages too, but they didn't really add much over the LEDs..
FranJan
Well-Known Member
This is from "Nitride Phosphors and Solid State Lighting" by Yamamoto et. al.
"In general, white light can be created with LEDs in two primary methods,
as shown in Figure 1.6:
1. Multi-LED chip approach, in which light coming from three monochromatic
red, green, and blue (RGB) LEDs is mixed, resulting in
white light to human eyes.
2. Phosphor conversion, in which a GaN-based blue or UV LED chip is
coated with a yellow or multichromatic phosphor. The mixing of light
from the phosphor and the LED chip appear white to human eyes."
So really some manufacturers are just using metamerism to get us to see white, but in reality it's RGB (Blue pump with a Red and Green phosphor) added. So do you want your "white" light from an RGB (and sometime Y) phosphor conversion process or straight from individual mono diodes with no loss from conversion. Hmmm?
There's also a way to create "white" light by using 2 complementary dies with nm's that are shite for our purposes, but will still create the illusion of white light. Here's a section from Shubert's "Light Emitting Diodes"
"White light can be generated in several different ways. One way of generating white light is
the use of two monochromatic colors, called complementary colors. Two complementary colors,
at a certain power ratio, result in tristimulus values that cause the perception of white light. The
wavelengths of complementary colors are shown in Fig. 12.1.
The numerical values for monochromatic complementary wavelengths are given in
Table 12.1."
Far as I know there is only one way to make a true full spectrum white and there isn't any company that does, (but things move fast and I could be wrong). Too expensive and efficacy sucks supposedly. But one day when the performance is there, white LEDs might just dominate. And according to the great book "Practical LED Design" the only way to truly know that a light will work for it's purpose or not is TO BUILD IT. Still one can't make any judgements on white LED growing performance without knowing what technology the LEDs are tied to IMHO.
And remember SDS boutique panel makers like PlantPhotonics/Hans don't care about white. Are they ignorant/limited? Also ever see what happens to a severely broken bone when it's not set by a doctor? Nature isn't always right.
What up Major Coco? Now there's a man who knows something about growing with whites!
Chronikool
Well-Known Member
^^^^^^^^ Yip...Majorcoco is one of the forefathers!What up Major Coco? Now there's a man who knows something about growing with whites!
HiloReign
Well-Known Member
Hell of a thread my friend! Thank you kindly for stopping by and sharing with me!!!