Five myths about immigration
- Thread starter abe23
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The USA's Ratio is almost as bad as Greece and depending on who is doing the numbers may actually be worse. http://seekingalpha.com/article/184671-fiscal-follies-greece-vs-the-u-s
kendothegreenwizard
Active Member
Uh! you are making a ridiculous comparison. No one is taking about imprisoning Illegals.
THe proccess clearly states that illegal Immigrants are deported back to their country of origin. Making the comparison you do gives rise to such notions as Burglars are criminals too are we going to imprison them. Rapist are criminals too, are we going to place them in prison too. WELL of course we are. Potheads are not criminals and that is why we are working very hard to change the laws for the better.
Illegal immigration is a problem and the story you cite does not address the illegal immigration issue it speaks on the immigration issue, as in immigrants who emigrate here legally
Thats not why, we have a printing press and we use it a bunch. Greece does not have a printing press and cannot monetize its debt with inflation like we can.
kendothegreenwizard
Active Member
Not for very long Dawg. The dollar is weak and getting weaker. THe Chinese, japan, Saudis and many others are working right now to change the finacial backing of the world economy. The dollar is set be dropped as the traditional currency for oil sales.
Once the dollar is dropped we will see an even further demise of the dollar.
Inflation has nearly doubled in 2 years. Food prices are skyrocketing and we owe China a grip oif cash that they are bending us over a barrell behind.
Once the dollar is dropped we will see an even further demise of the dollar.
Inflation has nearly doubled in 2 years. Food prices are skyrocketing and we owe China a grip oif cash that they are bending us over a barrell behind.
abe23
Active Member
That's not the point. I was suggesting that just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong as most people who use cannabis can attest.
And the article is about immigration in general. It does absolutely address illegal immigration. Read more carefully....
Once again, my view is that you can only start enforcing the laws more strictly after you reform legal immigration to allow in enough people and give amnesty to illegal immigrants who are integrated and speak the language once they pay fines and back taxes and apply for legal citizenship. We can't realistically track down and deport 20 million people...
undertheice
Well-Known Member
just how many more people should we let into this country each year? we already allow more than any other nation in the world and it is easier to emigrate here than any of those enlightened countries elsewhere in the world. why the hell should it be easy to gain citizenship in one of the most advanced nations on earth? we've tried the humanitarian gesture, giving amnesty to millions, and enforcement of our borders was blocked by short sighted fools. the federal government refuses to enforce our immigration laws and any local action is blocked by those same short sighted bleeding hearts and self-serving special interest groups. just how many times should we give a free pass to those who flaunt our sovereignty?
i know that the logistics of finding and deporting tens of millions of illegal immigrants seems daunting, but the price tag is nothing compared to the drain on our society of ignoring the problem. refusing employment to any but documented workers and heavily fining those employers that are caught hiring them is a logical first step. repealing that part of the fourteenth amendment that grants citizenship to those who are merely born within our borders and demanding citizenship from one parent or the other is just as necessary. allowing local authorities a freer hand to enforce our immigration laws would also go a long way toward ridding us of a strain we just can't bear.
the point of it all is that we must put our own citizens back to work before we can help anyone else. this doesn't start at the top, it begins with entry level positions and menial labor. our citizens are not too good to dig their own ditches, scrub their own toilets and mow their own lawns. the handouts must stop, replaced with honest labor for an honest wage. the welfare band-aid, never meant to be anything more than a temporary fix, must be torn down and replaced with a society of productive citizens.
Mindmelted
Well-Known Member
abe23
Active Member
As long as they meet a set of necessarily high standards i.e. are educated in the right fields, can pay for themselves until they get on their feet and don't have criminal records, I don't see why we should set any limits on green cards at all. In the long run, additional tax revenue and more economic growth will result from having more migrants come here and set up shop especially if we can pick and choose the right people. Right now, the main selection criteria for migrants is their ability to evade border patrol....
And it's not just the physical logistics of deporting 20 million I have a problem with. I also worry what will happen to all of our civil liberties if we give local law enforcement the power to check people's immigration status and detain them if there is any uncertainty. And it would really just push immigrants further into the underground, meaning more poverty and more crime on the margins of society.
I do agree with your last point though. We do need more incentives for americans to work some of these jobs and that would definitely mean fewer 'handouts' in some cases. I've known a lot of people from eastern europe who were professors, doctors or engineers in their home countries and came to america to drive a cab, work as an orderly or clean hotel rooms while they work their way back up. But that's exactly why I think we need more of those people and fewer of the guys who sit on their porch drinking beer all day...
undertheice
Well-Known Member
the possibility of a massive influx of immigrants at any one time makes unlimited immigration untenable. radical, unlimited growth is as destructive as its opposite. we have passed the point where we could afford to take all comers and must see to our own welfare before greeting every tom, dick and harry with open arms.
the notion that checking immigration status would lead us to racial profiling and some sort of police state mentality is little more than a scare tactic used by the proponents of unrestricted immigration. we know and accept that the security of our borders comes with some small decrease in our freedom of mobility, just as we allow sometimes disreputable men and women to roam our streets armed for the security a police force affords. we can and should take law enforcement to task when they violate the rights of citizens, but hamstringing them on the matter of illegal immigration makes no sense. if we are to place any trust at all in the people we have set to ensure law and order, we must allow them to enforce all the laws of the land and not consider them criminal from the outset.
golddog
Well-Known Member
Anybody wonder why LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZENS in Arizona are glad they passed this new law? And WHY others should follow? Here's why.
The following information IS compiled from Federal Bureau of Investigation and Department of Homeland Security:
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals
29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually
53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens
71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or transport coyotes".
47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.
63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens
66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.
380,000 plus anchor babies were born in the US to illegal alien parents in just one year, making 380,000 babies automatically US citizens.
97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayer
Look out other States....here they come.
Maybe they all otta move to DC!!!
The following information IS compiled from Federal Bureau of Investigation and Department of Homeland Security:
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals
29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually
53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens
71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or transport coyotes".
47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.
63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens
66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.
380,000 plus anchor babies were born in the US to illegal alien parents in just one year, making 380,000 babies automatically US citizens.
97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayer
Look out other States....here they come.
Maybe they all otta move to DC!!!
Mindmelted
Well-Known Member
undertheice
Well-Known Member
capacity is not a function of housing alone, but you already know that. i suppose we could merely warehouse the world's poor in our excess housing until they starved to death. in case you've forgotten, we have millions of out of work citizens. many of them would be more than happy to employ there time in useful pursuits. you may look down your nose at a job in the service industry, but i know more than a few folks who would love to have such stop-gap positions available to them to slow the drain from their already depleted savings. we have millions more who are almost permanently dependent on the good graces of the welfare state. how much of that drain on the taxpayer's wallets do you think we could do away with if they could even partially support themselves with the jobs presently occupied by your illegal immigrant friends.
Mindmelted
Well-Known Member
Here is something interesting about mexico.....
THE MEXICAN SOLUTION
By Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.
The Congress has received lots of free advice lately from Mexican government officials and illegal aliens waving Mexico’s flag in mass demonstrations coast-to-coast. Most of it takes the form of bitter complaints about our actual or prospective treatment of immigrants from that country who have gotten into this one illegally – or who aspire to do so.
If you think these critics are mad about U.S. immigration policy now, imagine how upset they would be if we adopted an approach far more radical than the bill they rail against which was adopted last year by the House of Representatives – namely, the way Mexico treats illegal aliens.
In fact, as a just-published paper by the Center for Security Policy’s J. Michael Waller (www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Glass_House.pdf) points out, under a constitution first adopted in 1917 and subsequently amended, Mexico deals harshly not only with illegal immigrants. It treats even legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and foreign investors in ways that would, by the standards of those who carp about U.S. immigration policy, have to be called “racist” and “xenophobic.”
For example, according to an official translation published by the Organization of American States, the Mexican constitution includes the following restrictions:
- Pursuant to Article 33, “Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.” This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.
- Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: “Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable.”
- Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered “indispensable” include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.
- Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be “a Mexican citizen by birth.” Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.
In accordance with Article 130, immigrants – even legal ones – may not become members of the clergy, either.
- Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, “Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters.”
- Article 11 guarantees federal protection against “undesirable aliens resident in the country.” What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen’s arrests. Article 16 states, “In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.” In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!
- The Mexican constitution states that foreigners – not just illegal immigrants – may be expelled for any reason and without due process. According to Article 33, “the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.”
As the immigration debate in the Senate moves into a decisive phase this week, legislators who believe America’s southern border must be secured, the Nation’s existing immigration laws enforced and illegal aliens not rewarded with permanent residency and a direct path to citizenship are being sharply criticized and, in some cases, defamed as bigots and xenophobes. Yet, even their maximalist positions generally pale in comparison with the treatment authorized by the Mexican constitution.
So the next time such legislators – and the majority of Americans for whom they speak – are assaulted by Mexican officials, undocumented aliens waving Mexican flags in mass demonstrations here in the United States, clergy and self-described humanitarians, businessmen and other advocates of illegal immigration ask them this: Would they favor having the U.S. impose the same restrictions on immigrants – legal and illegal – that Mexico imposes on their counterparts there?
Nothing of the kind is in the cards, of course. Nor should it be. Legal immigration and the opportunity for foreign investors and other nationals to contribute to this country are not only one of its hallmarks; they are among the reasons for its greatness.
Still, we should not allow the hypocrisy of others’ treatment of undocumented aliens in their countries to induce us to refrain from taking effective steps to prevent further illegal immigration: by building a fence along our southern border; by enforcing immigration laws in the workplace and elsewhere; and by discouraging more such violations – with potentially grave national security implications – by dealing effectively with those who have already broken those laws by coming here without permission.
And in the end everybody loses....
THE MEXICAN SOLUTION
By Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.
The Congress has received lots of free advice lately from Mexican government officials and illegal aliens waving Mexico’s flag in mass demonstrations coast-to-coast. Most of it takes the form of bitter complaints about our actual or prospective treatment of immigrants from that country who have gotten into this one illegally – or who aspire to do so.
If you think these critics are mad about U.S. immigration policy now, imagine how upset they would be if we adopted an approach far more radical than the bill they rail against which was adopted last year by the House of Representatives – namely, the way Mexico treats illegal aliens.
In fact, as a just-published paper by the Center for Security Policy’s J. Michael Waller (www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Glass_House.pdf) points out, under a constitution first adopted in 1917 and subsequently amended, Mexico deals harshly not only with illegal immigrants. It treats even legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and foreign investors in ways that would, by the standards of those who carp about U.S. immigration policy, have to be called “racist” and “xenophobic.”
For example, according to an official translation published by the Organization of American States, the Mexican constitution includes the following restrictions:
- Pursuant to Article 33, “Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.” This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.
- Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: “Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable.”
- Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered “indispensable” include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.
- Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be “a Mexican citizen by birth.” Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.
In accordance with Article 130, immigrants – even legal ones – may not become members of the clergy, either.
- Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, “Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters.”
- Article 11 guarantees federal protection against “undesirable aliens resident in the country.” What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen’s arrests. Article 16 states, “In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.” In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!
- The Mexican constitution states that foreigners – not just illegal immigrants – may be expelled for any reason and without due process. According to Article 33, “the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.”
As the immigration debate in the Senate moves into a decisive phase this week, legislators who believe America’s southern border must be secured, the Nation’s existing immigration laws enforced and illegal aliens not rewarded with permanent residency and a direct path to citizenship are being sharply criticized and, in some cases, defamed as bigots and xenophobes. Yet, even their maximalist positions generally pale in comparison with the treatment authorized by the Mexican constitution.
So the next time such legislators – and the majority of Americans for whom they speak – are assaulted by Mexican officials, undocumented aliens waving Mexican flags in mass demonstrations here in the United States, clergy and self-described humanitarians, businessmen and other advocates of illegal immigration ask them this: Would they favor having the U.S. impose the same restrictions on immigrants – legal and illegal – that Mexico imposes on their counterparts there?
Nothing of the kind is in the cards, of course. Nor should it be. Legal immigration and the opportunity for foreign investors and other nationals to contribute to this country are not only one of its hallmarks; they are among the reasons for its greatness.
Still, we should not allow the hypocrisy of others’ treatment of undocumented aliens in their countries to induce us to refrain from taking effective steps to prevent further illegal immigration: by building a fence along our southern border; by enforcing immigration laws in the workplace and elsewhere; and by discouraging more such violations – with potentially grave national security implications – by dealing effectively with those who have already broken those laws by coming here without permission.
And in the end everybody loses....
ejo
Member
Why hasn't this ignorant racist been banned?
Anywho, illegal immigrants don't qualify for 99 percent of benefits, according to the IRS are more likely to pay taxes than a citizen, and have lower incarceration rates.
This should automatically make all arguments moot.
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