Flowering with WAY TOO HIGH - RH

ecs@live

Well-Known Member
Hi guys.

i really seem too be needing your help on this one... cant really figure out what to do..

i have a homebox xl with 600 digi watt and adjust a-wing reflector, a 4" exhoust fan with filter,2 clip on fans, humidifier (260w) about a gallon tank, 8 plants in 11 L pots..

okay.. outside RH is stable at 55%

my Tents RH sometimes reach 91% but is between 65%-91% the condensation is really hardcore in the morning on all sides of the tent.

the room that the tent is in the RH is relative high as well because of the outlet i think.. allthough my whole house the RH is about 60%

to be mentioned:
the house have floor heat
the temps are from 25-28
im watering until it slightly flows out the bottom of the pots every third day
im emptying the humidifier every day for about 2.5 L of water


How do i get a the humidity down to about 40??

All help or input will be much appreciated as i´m in week 3 of flower and would be very sad to throw my harvest away :/
 

queenster

Active Member
you need a bigger dehumidifier and a bigger exaust fan and dont suck cold air into a hot room
hope this helps. or you can hang towels around in the room to catch the water in the air hahahaahhhhhh
 

Airwave

Well-Known Member
you need a bigger dehumidifier and a bigger exaust fan and dont suck cold air into a hot room
hope this helps. or you can hang towels around in the room to catch the water in the air hahahaahhhhhh
I would add to this: Keep your exhaust running 24/7 to help.
 

rory420420

Well-Known Member
If you have a budget,get a climate controller,also id try pulling air in instead of blowing it in,keeping the exhaust hose near the middle of the room,possibly the top...it takes time to zero in a climate,so experiment,but cautiously
 

ecs@live

Well-Known Member
damn.. i just bought the humidifier :/

atm im drawing air through the humidifier into the tent..

to get you right i shouldent open the window in the room?? the outside temps are about 4-6 c. (very cold)
 

ecs@live

Well-Known Member
If you have a budget,get a climate controller,also id try pulling air in instead of blowing it in,keeping the exhaust hose near the middle of the room,possibly the top...it takes time to zero in a climate,so experiment,but cautiously
im blowing the air out of the tent.. think an AC would be a bit over my budget.. but thanks alot for your input.

this is truly the first time ive had major problems tuning in the climate.. is normally takes me 5-7 days but this one seems to be a tricky one :)
 

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
Probably a stupid question, but worth asking since you said "humidifier" multiple times... you DID buy a DEhumidifier, right? :)
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
Your humility levels should be around 65% most of the time. Any time you have cold air meeting hot you get condensation, just look at the windows on some houses in the winter.

You need to keep your humidity levels high when growing as the stomata are only fully open above 60%, anything less and you are not growing at optimum levels. The stomata are what convert Co2 into energy, photosynthesis

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/mcelwain_02

 

ecs@live

Well-Known Member
Your humility levels should be around 65% most of the time. Any time you have cold air meeting hot you get condensation, just look at the windows on some houses in the winter.

You need to keep your humidity levels high when growing as the stomata are only fully open above 60%, anything less and you are not growing at optimum levels. The stomata are what convert Co2 into energy, photosynthesis

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/mcelwain_02

thank you very much for this answer.. very useful information.

all the windows in my house have alot of condensation, so this is maybe what makes it so tricky..

so its only in the last couple of weeks i want the RH to be around 40%? to prevent mold?
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
thank you very much for this answer.. very useful information.

all the windows in my house have alot of condensation, so this is maybe what makes it so tricky..

so its only in the last couple of weeks i want the RH to be around 40%? to prevent mold?
I run at 50 to 60% 7/24, to prevent mold keep a fan blowing all the time and temps at 70 to 80. Here is some more info

[FONT=&quot]Carbon dioxide enters, while water and oxygen exit, through a leaf's stomata. Stomata control a trade-off for the plant: they allow carbon dioxide in, but they also let precious water escape. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Levels of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere change over time — so at times when the atmosphere is carbon-dioxide-rich, plants can get away with having fewer stomata since each individual stoma will be able to bring in more carbon dioxide. During those high-carbon-dioxide times, plants with fewer stomata will have an advantage and will be common. On the other hand, when carbon dioxide levels are low, plants need many stomata in order to scrape together enough carbon dioxide to survive. During low-carbon-dioxide times, plants with more stomata will have an advantage and will be common.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stomata of fossil plants can be used to directly estimate past carbon dioxide levels, and those carbon dioxide levels can then be used to make an indirect estimate of temperature. Typically (although there are exceptions to the rule), fossils with many stomata (low carbon dioxide) came from times of low global temperature, and fossils with few stomata (high carbon dioxide) came from times of high global temperatures.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Humidity plays a major role in plant growth, and it's effects are often underestimated or overlooked. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Plants breathe through tiny openings on the undersides of their leaves called stomata. Plants can (and do) open and close their stomata under certain conditions, for example if heat becomes excessive and causes a plant to start loosing more water than it can take up, the plant will close it's stomata to slow down the water loss.

Unfortunately, by closing the stomata and slowing evaporation the plant also has slowed down it's cooling mechanism. This causes heat to build up in the plant tissue, and in temperature too hot the plant actually cooks itself. It is important to understand the opening and closing of the stomata and how it, in turn, controls plant transpiration.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Plant transpiration is how plants breath. Plants do not have lungs, however, so when molecules of gas and water vapor are released from the stomata they tend to just hang there in the absence of any breeze. That is why it is so important to have box fans or oscillating fans in a garden to circulate the air (in addition to exhaust fans). These fans are actually like the plant's lungs, and without them the plants would have no way of moving fresh CO2 molecules into contact with their plant tissue. The plants would slowly choke on their own transpired gasses and water vapor.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]As water evaporates from the surfaces of leaves, the surface tension of the water molecules tend to pull the next water molecule along behind it, up through the plant's veins. Water is pulled up through the plant stem, which is pulled from the plant's roots. This creates a negative water pressure in the root zone and allows the roots to suck moisture up out of the root zone like a straw. The process of water absorbing into the plant through the roots is known as osmosis [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Which brings me back to humidity. Water vapor is humidity. As a plant transpires, the humidity immediately surrounding the leaves will become saturated with water vapor. Now, the entire plant transpiration cycle is controlled by evaporation. When gasses surrounding a leaf become saturated with water vapor (100% humidity), there is no place for the next molecule of water vapor to evaporate to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The end result is that water vapor is not evaporating, so water is not being drawn up from the root zone...and neither are any nutrients. If nutrients are not being taken up, than developing fruits are not getting the food they need to be healthy. This is exactly why high humidity will cause blossom end rot in fruiting tomatoes just like a Calcium deficiency. It is another reason why it is so important to keep box fans and oscillating fans in the garden area to keep the air circulating.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So, evaporation controls plant transpiration. High temperatures and low humidity therefor both cause fast transpiration. Fast transpiration means your plants will be taking up and using lots of water (and nutrients). This is fine, unless you were feeding your plants strong to begin with. Your plants can only handle so much fertilizer within a specific period of time.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So if you now have warm temperatures, low humidity, and fast transpiration rates you may find your plants are using a little too much fertilizer a little too quickly. Leaf tip burn is usually a sign of this. Under these circumstances you can feed your plants with a weaker nutrient solution.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Or, if all other plant growth influencing factors are in their ideal ranges, you can try to maximize plant growth by adding Co2 (in which case you should experience heavy plant growth without showing any signs of stress or damage.

[/FONT]11884_evo_resources_resource_image_370_original.gif33615_evo_resources_resource_image_372_original.gif4196_evo_resources_resource_image_369_original.gif
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Urban Horticulturist and Associate Professor,
Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University

The Myth of Milk and Roses:

"Milk sprayed onto rose leaves will prevent fungal and bacterial diseases"

The Myth

In the last few years, the Internet has been abuzz with the news that spraying milk on rose leaves can
control foliar diseases. The web stories most often cite a Brazilian study published in 1999 focusing on
powdery mildew control on zucchini. This new alternative to conventional fungicides has been
augmented with anecdotal reports of successful powdery mildew control on a variety of plants, including
roses. Moreover, the treatment is also touted as preventing leaf black spot, thus giving hope to rose
aficionados everywhere of a safe, effective method of growing disease-free specimens.

The Reality

Milk has been part of the horticultural toolbox for many decades; for instance, it has been used with
varying effectiveness as a spreader or sticker in pesticide applications. Perhaps the best-documented use
of milk has been in reducing the transmission of leaf viruses, especially tobacco mosaic and other mosaic
viruses. Studies over the last half of the 20th century document the effectiveness of milk used for this
purpose (Table 1):

Table 1: Effectiveness of milk products in protecting leaves from viruses:

Location Year Crop Milk product Conditions Effective?
Australia 1967 Sugarcane Evaporated Field Somewhat
Brazil 2001 Zucchini Raw + leaf extract Field Yes
Brit. Col. 1964 Tomato Unknown Unknown Yes
Florida 2004 Hibiscus Non-fat dry Field Yes
Germany 1971 Spinach Full cream Greenhouse Yes
Beans Full cream Greenhouse Yes
Beets Full cream Greenhouse Yes
Celery Full cream Greenhouse Yes
Pea Full cream Greenhouse Yes
Potato Full cream Greenhouse No
Hawaii 1994 Orchid Nonfat Laboratory No
India 2003 Sunflower Nonfat Field Somewhat
Manitoba 1959 Barley Nonfat Field Yes
New Zealand 1943 Tobacco Unknown Field Yes
Quebec 1968 Tomato Unknown Unknown Yes
Russia 1961 Tobacco Whey Laboratory Somewhat
Taiwan 1991 Pepper Nonfat Field No

The effectiveness of milk sprays in reducing virus transmission probably improves with the concentration
of the milk product used; milk concentrations of 20% nonfat dry or 30% fresh were reported as effective
in the Florida and Brazil studies, respectively. Milk is routinely recommended as an organic hand
sanitizer when handling virus-susceptible seedlings for transplant.


How milk functions as an antiviral agent is not clear but there are a few attractive hypotheses. First, milk
may deactivate viruses chemically or isolate them physically; hence the success of milk as a sterilizing
treatment. Second, milk may prevent aphid attack, and thus transmission, of aphid-borne viruses.
Aphids may be deterred by the milk film on the leaf or attacked by aphid pathogens whose growth is
enhanced by milk sprays; a 2003 study identified just such a fungal agent on treated pepper leaves.

Recently, milk has made an appearance as an antifungal agent, specifically in powdery mildew prevention
(Table 2). [Note that there have been no published scientific studies investigating roses or any other
ornamental plant species.]

Table 2: Effectiveness of milk products in protecting leaves from powdery mildew:

Location Year Crop Milk Conditions Effective?

Australia 2000 Melon Full & half Field Somewhat
Brazil 2005 Pumpkin Raw Field Yes

Pumpkin Pasteurized Field Yes
Brazil 1999 Zucchini Fresh Greenhouse Yes
Italy 2003 Cucurbits Unknown Field Inconclusive
Italy 2002 Cucurbits Fresh Greenhouse Yes

Cucurbits Dried Greenhouse Yes

Cucurbits Fresh Field
Yes/No

Cucurbits Dried Field Yes/No
UK 2003 Wheat Pasteurized Greenhouse Yes

The results of these studies suggest that milk treatment under controlled (greenhouse) conditions is more
successful than in the field. None of these studies utilized nonfat milk, so it’s unclear whether it would
show any efficacy. In general, it appears that milk applied before fungal inoculation is more effective
than milk applied after infection is present. Stems and lower leaf surfaces may be less protected,
especially under high disease incidence.

This last point is important when considering the value of anecdotal claims of the effectiveness of milk or
any other pesticidal treatment. Unless plant material is actually challenged (exposed to) the disease or
pest of interest, it is impossible to attribute the subsequent lack of disease or pests to that treatment.
Statements such as “Last year I had horrible black spot problems, but this year I used milk spray and my
roses are disease-free” display faulty logic in the assumption of cause and effect where none may actually
exist.

There are a few potential drawbacks to using milk as a foliar spray:

•
Milk-fat can produce unpleasant odors as it breaks down.
•
The benign fungal organisms that colonize leaves and break down milk can be aesthetically
unattractive.
•
Dried skim milk has been reported to induce black rot, soft rot, and Alternaria leaf spot on treated
cruciferous crops.
Is it worth trying milk as a treatment for viruses, powdery mildew, or any other disease? Absolutely!
There is substantial evidence that milk treatments can be effective in the protection of some crops, and
organic farmers especially might benefit from this method. But on which plant species will milk
treatment prevent disease? What pathogens are actually inhibited by milk products, and which milk


products are the most effective? Until these questions have been answered, it will be impossible to devise
a reliable application protocol.

The Bottom Line

•
There is no evidence that milk sprays are effective in controlling black spot on roses or any other
ornamental plant species.
•
Milk sprayed onto leaves may act as a nutrient source for benign microorganisms, decreasing the
leaf area available for powdery mildew to infect.
•
Leaves coated with a milk spray may be less vulnerable to aphid attack, thereby reducing the
transmission of aphid-borne viruses.
•
Milk sprays can encourage the growth of other microorganisms, whose presence may be
aesthetically unappealing.
•
Milk sprays may be a viable alternative to conventional pesticides, especially for organic farmers.
For more information, please visit Dr. Chalker-Scott’s web page at http://www.theinformedgardener.com.
 

ROBSTERB

Well-Known Member
holy shit thats alot of info! lol, but asbove said as long as youve got good air flow you should be fine.
 

SFguy

Well-Known Member
Air flow air flow airflow, it all coems down to making them have fresh air and the wind blowin up their skirts..hehehe
 

SirLancelot

Active Member
try putting the dehumidifier in the room and exhausting the heat from it out one of your 6" or 4" holes. I figure it's easier to dehumidify that way instead of pushing dehumidified air into the tent.
 

lordjin

Well-Known Member
damn.. i just bought the humidifier :/

atm im drawing air through the humidifier into the tent..

to get you right i shouldent open the window in the room?? the outside temps are about 4-6 c. (very cold)
Why do you keep referring to a humidifier? I thought you were trying to lower your humidity?
 
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