for new growers... lots of info

plant is flowering now for about three weeks, haven't grown much in the last week. the height is 28 inches, the center of the plant is getting thicker. does the plant not grow much while flowering?

the plant is grown outside in a pot. bring it in everyday still doing the 12-12.

cwallace48 said:

plant is flowering now for about three weeks, haven't grown much in the last week. the height is 28 inches, the center of the plant is getting thicker. does the plant not grow much while flowering?

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during the flowering cycle plants usually double to triple in size.. a 1 foot plant, depending on strain, can end up being 2 to 3 feet tall.. this does not always happen.. but there is usually a good amount of stretching done.. the stretching occurs throughout the first few weeks after switching to a 12/12 cycle..

so you said your plant is 28 inches tall... how tall was it when you started doing the 12/12 cycle on it?? are you giving it any kind of nutes?? when you say the center of the plant is getting thicker do you mean it is bushing out more?? are you seeing budsites or any signs of sex yet?? and do you have any pics??

your problem does seem a bit strange, but will need to give more info before i can help out...

yes, has bud sites all over it, the branches are full of white hairs, where it is flowering , and the limbs are full of white hairs also. some hairs are amber in color. it was about 24 inches when i started the 12/12. I don't know the strain, but the plant is very thick, had to cut off some of the bigger leaves so the buds can get sun. It is not a thin plant, leggy plant. the person who gave me the seed said that the seed came from an indoor grow and that all the seeds are female.

You seem like a very knowledgeable and generous enough person to ask. Im a first time grower and using an aerogarden. Kinda worried that im not germinating right. Are you familiar with AG? and will u help me? just need a few questions answered...

cwallace48 said:

yes, has bud sites all over it, the branches are full of white hairs, where it is flowering , and the limbs are full of white hairs also. some hairs are amber in color. it was about 24 inches when i started the 12/12. I don't know the strain, but the plant is very thick, had to cut off some of the bigger leaves so the buds can get sun. It is not a thin plant, leggy plant. the person who gave me the seed said that the seed came from an indoor grow and that all the seeds are female.

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from the sound of things you have an indica or indica dominant strain.. they are shorter and bushier than sativas, and will stay short during flowering... they dont stretch as much.. it could be that the strain you are growing is very very indica and doesnt stretch much at all.. as long as bud sites are popping up and they are growing then everything is ok..

now i cant stress this part enough.. it is not a good idea to cut any foliage from your plant.... the only time you want to cut anything away is if you are topping or lollipopping.. both of which should be done during veg... the plant uses fan leaves to absorb light.. when you remove them you are actually removing potential energy that could be used.. and although the idea that removing them to let light into the plant seems to make sense when said, it actually works backwards, again, by losing leaves that would absorb potential energy... if you want to let light further down into your plant your best bet is to move branches and tie them in place... seperate out your plants branches tie them so that light is able to penetrate, but you dont remove any foliage... also removing foliage stresses the plant, and also all during veg and early into flowering the plant will actually focus energy on regrowing the removed foliage instead of new growth/buds...

Carolinakid3 said:

You seem like a very knowledgeable and generous enough person to ask. Im a first time grower and using an aerogarden. Kinda worried that im not germinating right. Are you familiar with AG? and will u help me? just need a few questions answered...

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well feel free to ask.. ill answer what i can, and tell you if its something i cant answer....

simpsonsampson420 said:

from the sound of things you have an indica or indica dominant strain.. they are shorter and bushier than sativas, and will stay short during flowering... they dont stretch as much.. it could be that the strain you are growing is very very indica and doesnt stretch much at all.. as long as bud sites are popping up and they are growing then everything is ok..

now i cant stress this part enough.. it is not a good idea to cut any foliage from your plant.... the only time you want to cut anything away is if you are topping or lollipopping.. both of which should be done during veg... the plant uses fan leaves to absorb light.. when you remove them you are actually removing potential energy that could be used.. and although the idea that removing them to let light into the plant seems to make sense when said, it actually works backwards, again, by losing leaves that would absorb potential energy... if you want to let light further down into your plant your best bet is to move branches and tie them in place... seperate out your plants branches tie them so that light is able to penetrate, but you dont remove any foliage... also removing foliage stresses the plant, and also all during veg and early into flowering the plant will actually focus energy on regrowing the removed foliage instead of new growth/buds...



well feel free to ask.. ill answer what i can, and tell you if its something i cant answer....

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u rock homie thanx for ppassin on the knowledge.. teach a man to fish...

simpsonsampson420 said:

checked things out.. first nice lst job... the until i saw the pics of the ties on your branches i thought you had multiple plants growing in the one pot... it is pretty early in the morning too... ahhh.. better... but like i was saying, excellent lst job...

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thanx for the compliment....everything i know about growing i learned from the bible jorge's dvd and 90% from willing people on here like you...im very greatful for all u guys time..there are 4 plants in the bottom of a rubbermaid tub...1 indica and three sative from the best i can tell...counting all tops i count like 37 upper and lower...all the seeds were good midgrade bagseed...they started out in a full tub with some live plant aquarium lights which turned out to be a great spectrum for veg...in a few weeks started off 6 and killed one for room and had one male...i quickly grew out of the tub and graduated to my little cubicle... when its hidden it stays about 93f...i went out that day and bought a $10 light,ph,moisture meter and found my ph was 7.1-.2 and i was way overwatering....as im balancing things out and have already seen a lil growth..as for the insects i havent really seen any in the plant...they attract houseflys cuz i live in the country and they like the light im assuming...the ones im worried about ive only seen in the soil..they look like little fleas ive also seen a couple grey flying things about the size of a knat.i tried malathion 50% mixed and sprayed it on the soil with a body spray bottle of my gf's that puts out a very fine mist...ill take some good pics of my problem areas as soon as light shift starts and post them...thanx again

prizm23a said:

thanx for the compliment....everything i know about growing i learned from the bible jorge's dvd and 90% from willing people on here like you...im very greatful for all u guys time..there are 4 plants in the bottom of a rubbermaid tub...1 indica and three sative from the best i can tell...counting all tops i count like 37 upper and lower...all the seeds were good midgrade bagseed...they started out in a full tub with some live plant aquarium lights which turned out to be a great spectrum for veg...in a few weeks started off 6 and killed one for room and had one male...i quickly grew out of the tub and graduated to my little cubicle... when its hidden it stays about 93f...i went out that day and bought a $10 light,ph,moisture meter and found my ph was 7.1-.2 and i was way overwatering....as im balancing things out and have already seen a lil growth..as for the insects i havent really seen any in the plant...they attract houseflys cuz i live in the country and they like the light im assuming...the ones im worried about ive only seen in the soil..they look like little fleas ive also seen a couple grey flying things about the size of a knat.i tried malathion 50% mixed and sprayed it on the soil with a body spray bottle of my gf's that puts out a very fine mist...ill take some good pics of my problem areas as soon as light shift starts and post them...thanx again

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ill be lookin for the pics...

ph needs to come down a little.. about a half point... there a ton of products you can use to lower the ph.. just do some research or product searching and see what one sounds like it will work best for you...

temps are up there too.. if you can allow them more air exchange it would be best.. unless you have good ventilation, circulation, and exchange high temps are not good.. especially during flowering.. if you have heat problems, running the lights on cycle during the night can help, when its cooler anyways.. i wouldnt suggest trying to change things now.. but for the future.. for now just try to keep as much hot air exhausting from the room as you can and bring in as much cool air as possible..

MJ likes going from a wet to dry environment.. using that meter will help a lot... some growers will wait until they see a little bit of drooping in their plants before watering... this isnt a great practice to do.. but it does let you know for sure when you need to water.. and if you catch it early enough you can do it without harming the plant or stressing it...

so you have 2 kinds of bug problems right now?? if they are soil bound bugs the easiest way to get rid of them is to add a 1/2" to 1" of sterile sand to the top of the soil.. dont mix it.. just pour it on.. it will take care of whatevers in the soil... basically it keeps them from getting out, and eventually they all die.. it takes a week or 2 to be sure they are gone.. but oh well... its worth the wait...

simpsonsampson420 said:

ill be lookin for the pics...

ph needs to come down a little.. about a half point... there a ton of products you can use to lower the ph.. just do some research or product searching and see what one sounds like it will work best for you......

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really jus the bugs in the soil are my only insect problem i guess...like i said i dont think the flies hurt anything so its jus the little white ones.....i sprayed some malathion on em an its done alot better...as far as air goes its as cool as i can get it...i have a fan on the canopy a dual window fan that blows both ways built into the bottom of my cubicle...both of those stay on 24/7...i also have a cheap fairly small wal mart hepa/carbon filter moving air for the smell...i was thinking about cutting open the hepa an fillin it with carbon as best i can an resealing it to help...as far as the ph goes i found someepsoma organic traditions soil acidifier....sulfer 30% 18%free and 12% combined...it has directions for prepping soil and for established plants...i order as lil as possible off the net an pay for as much as i can in cash...its all i could find around me to buy..anyways here are the pics and thanx again for all ur help and advice...

prizm23a said:

really jus the bugs in the soil are my only insect problem i guess...like i said i dont think the flies hurt anything so its jus the little white ones.....i sprayed some malathion on em an its done alot better...as far as air goes its as cool as i can get it...i have a fan on the canopy a dual window fan that blows both ways built into the bottom of my cubicle...both of those stay on 24/7...i also have a cheap fairly small wal mart hepa/carbon filter moving air for the smell...i was thinking about cutting open the hepa an fillin it with carbon as best i can an resealing it to help...as far as the ph goes i found someepsoma organic traditions soil acidifier....sulfer 30% 18%free and 12% combined...it has directions for prepping soil and for established plants...i order as lil as possible off the net an pay for as much as i can in cash...its all i could find around me to buy..anyways here are the pics and thanx again for all ur help and advice...

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white flies lay their eggs in/on the soil too... so the sand will take care of both of them... or assist in helping too... along with the malathion it is a one,two punch to them..

what side of the cubicle is the dual fan on?? have you tried turning both of the dual fans so they are both sucking out?? it could help... part of the problem is the intake fan is just pulling some of the warm air you are pulling out right back in... my suggestion might be to place the canopy fan as close to the door to the grow as possible pointing towards the dual fan, and have both of the dual fans exhausting... this will create a nice air flow and should help temps a little more also.. a few degrees i would imagine at least... plus the constant intake/exhaust will help out when temps get warmer...

i wouldnt worry about messing with the filters too much if they are working already... hepa filters have good airflow through them.. unless the charcoal part isnt keeping up you dont need to mess to much with it...


your ok ordering off the internet if its something here and there.. but im the same way with paying for stuff in cash.. its a lot safer in the end... but what you got sounds perfect... you can tell from the pics you have some sort of ph balance issue... it isnt bad as its not ruining the plants at all.. just could stand to be lowered a little... the yellow leaf you showed shouldnt be too much of a concern.. during flowering the plant will use little to no nitrogen, which is found in veg nutes, which is what keeps the leaves green.. more than likely you just have some leaves yellowing from a lack of nitrogen.. it will happen.. its nothing to worry about... you can feed with a little bit of veg nutes every few waterings to help retain the green in the leaves if you want.. but you dont have too..

other than that bro sounds like you got things figured out and things are looking good... hope all turns out well for you!

simpsonsampson420 said:

ill be lookin for the pics...

ph needs to come down a little.. about a half point... there a ton of products you can use to lower the ph.. just do some research or product searching and see what one sounds like it will work best for you...

temps are up there too.. if you can allow them more air exchange it would be best.. unless you have good ventilation, circulation, and exchange high temps are not good.. especially during flowering.. if you have heat problems, running the lights on cycle during the night can help, when its cooler anyways.. i wouldnt suggest trying to change things now.. but for the future.. for now just try to keep as much hot air exhausting from the room as you can and bring in as much cool air as possible..

MJ likes going from a wet to dry environment.. using that meter will help a lot... some growers will wait until they see a little bit of drooping in their plants before watering... this isnt a great practice to do.. but it does let you know for sure when you need to water.. and if you catch it early enough you can do it without harming the plant or stressing it...

so you have 2 kinds of bug problems right now?? if they are soil bound bugs the easiest way to get rid of them is to add a 1/2" to 1" of sterile sand to the top of the soil.. dont mix it.. just pour it on.. it will take care of whatevers in the soil... basically it keeps them from getting out, and eventually they all die.. it takes a week or 2 to be sure they are gone.. but oh well... its worth the wait...

Click to expand...

i used to practice the drooping as well until i repotted everything and weighed them wet and dry!!

hey ss.. first of all i just wanted to thank you for all of your hard work and time.. if it wasn't for willing people like yourself, then noobs such as myself would be shit out of luck. maybe sometimes some people dont sound appreciative of all that you have done, but i hope the ones who do will encourage you to continue spreading your vast knowledge.
so here is my ?.. i searched for it and it brought me to your thread, so i hope you can help.. i am growing th seeds mk ultra from seed under a 250 hps.. they are now in the 7th week of flowering, and all looks great.. on the th seeds website it mentions i think 56 to 63 days to complete flowering, which if my math is right is 8 or 9 weeks.. but how do i tell when the buds are actually ready to be cut down? i read all of this stuff about trichromes and when they turn either amber or milky in appearence it is time.. now this may sound like a really stupid ? and all, but how at im i able to see the tric"s? i have a digi camera, but i am not sure if i have a macro setting on it.. i have tried the zoom and all i end up with is a fuzzy photo of all the pistils staring back at me.. i also have a glass loupe that i used at my job, but i think it is only like a 5x power one.. not sure if this is strong enuf to be able to see the tric's with or not.
anyway.. thanks again for taking the time out to help some begginers get started in this great hobby of ours.. and i hope that you will be able to help me out.

racerboy71 said:

hey ss.. first of all i just wanted to thank you for all of your hard work and time.. if it wasn't for willing people like yourself, then noobs such as myself would be shit out of luck. maybe sometimes some people dont sound appreciative of all that you have done, but i hope the ones who do will encourage you to continue spreading your vast knowledge.
so here is my ?.. i searched for it and it brought me to your thread, so i hope you can help.. i am growing th seeds mk ultra from seed under a 250 hps.. they are now in the 7th week of flowering, and all looks great.. on the th seeds website it mentions i think 56 to 63 days to complete flowering, which if my math is right is 8 or 9 weeks.. but how do i tell when the buds are actually ready to be cut down? i read all of this stuff about trichromes and when they turn either amber or milky in appearence it is time.. now this may sound like a really stupid ? and all, but how at im i able to see the tric"s? i have a digi camera, but i am not sure if i have a macro setting on it.. i have tried the zoom and all i end up with is a fuzzy photo of all the pistils staring back at me.. i also have a glass loupe that i used at my job, but i think it is only like a 5x power one.. not sure if this is strong enuf to be able to see the tric's with or not.
anyway.. thanks again for taking the time out to help some begginers get started in this great hobby of ours.. and i hope that you will be able to help me out.

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thanks bro.. always nice to hear someone appriciates things like this...

so hear is the story on the trichs... first the trichs are the crystals on the buds.. in order to see them you can use a magnifying glass or get a 20x or 60x or whatever scope from radioshack fairly cheap... those will allow you to see the trichs nice and clearly..

now trichs go from clear to milky to amber.. the stage in which you harvest will affect the type of high you get.. so that will also change when you harvest...

you definatly dont want clear trichs... now once they have all turned milky, and you can see them start turning amber, you get your first high, which is much more of a head high... wait till you see about 10% of the total plant turning amber before harvesting tho.. you want a little bit of amber..

if you wait until you have a 50/50 mix of milky and amber you end up with much more of a body high...

and if you wait until almost all the trichs are changed you get a couch lock high.. this is also when you get the most out of your buds both yield and potency... but this can sometimes be too much for someone..

basically the more the trichs have colored the more ripe the buds are and the more potent they are.. if you are wanting to get buds that are close to 100% finished you also want to wait until the pistils have almost all died off and are receding into the bud...

harvesting is kind of a guessing game and is based on what kind of stone you seek.. there isnt a right or wrong time.. just know that you dont want to harvest before you see ambering trichs and the riper the buds get the closer you get to couch lock...

thanks a ton simpson..
like alot of other people have already said, you have a great way about you in the way that you explain things in nice and easy general terms.. i have been reading just about every pot magazine i can get my hands on for atleast the last ten years, and still wasnt totally clear on when to harvest.. it just took me asking someone like yourself who is friendly enough and knowledgeable enough to get a clear and precise answer.
i guess the old saying is correct.. the only stupid question is the one not asked, for if i had thought my question was silly and not worth your time, i wouldn't have gotten my answer.
now i am more into like the sativa kind of high, although i know that mk ultra is an indica.. so if i harvest when amber i will get more of a sativa-ish kinda of high instead of the typical couchlock indica high right?
thanks again for your simple yet imformative answsr, and if i could figure out how to add to your rep, i will do so..

racerboy71 said:

thanks a ton simpson..
like alot of other people have already said, you have a great way about you in the way that you explain things in nice and easy general terms.. i have been reading just about every pot magazine i can get my hands on for atleast the last ten years, and still wasnt totally clear on when to harvest.. it just took me asking someone like yourself who is friendly enough and knowledgeable enough to get a clear and precise answer.
i guess the old saying is correct.. the only stupid question is the one not asked, for if i had thought my question was silly and not worth your time, i wouldn't have gotten my answer.
now i am more into like the sativa kind of high, although i know that mk ultra is an indica.. so if i harvest when amber i will get more of a sativa-ish kinda of high instead of the typical couchlock indica high right?
thanks again for your simple yet imformative answsr, and if i could figure out how to add to your rep, i will do so..

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if you wanting to get more of a sativa high from your indica you will want to harvest early into the ambering process.. when the vast majority of the trichs are milky and you can just start to see signs of ambering.. this will give you a more uplifting energetic high from your indica..

+rep just click the scales in the corners above the green and orange bar..

anything else you have questions on feel free to ask

ya cool ..
thanks again simpson..
when i run into another question/ problem, i will be sure to ask you... ok.. just thought of one.. i've read both responses to my next question, and was wondering what your thoughts are on this.. is it waaayyyy too late to take clones from this plant, being that it just started the 7th week of flowering? i have heard some people say that it is ok, but just that it will take the clone alot longer to revert back to the vegging stage and also heard some people say don't take clones at this late of the flowering stage and that i may have problems getting the clone to root..
so, like i said, i was just wondering what your thoughts are on this subject? also, i have a diesel plant that was a freebie when i ordered from the attitude.. it is a g13 labs femmed seed and is in like the third week of flowering.. same question for this plant.. too late to clone or not?
thanks for the imput.

racerboy71 said:

ya cool ..
thanks again simpson..
when i run into another question/ problem, i will be sure to ask you... ok.. just thought of one.. i've read both responses to my next question, and was wondering what your thoughts are on this.. is it waaayyyy too late to take clones from this plant, being that it just started the 7th week of flowering? i have heard some people say that it is ok, but just that it will take the clone alot longer to revert back to the vegging stage and also heard some people say don't take clones at this late of the flowering stage and that i may have problems getting the clone to root..
so, like i said, i was just wondering what your thoughts are on this subject? also, i have a diesel plant that was a freebie when i ordered from the attitude.. it is a g13 labs femmed seed and is in like the third week of flowering.. same question for this plant.. too late to clone or not?
thanks for the imput.

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you can pretty much take cuttings up until you harvest... the earlier in flowering you take them the better.. but it is perfectly fine to take them now, for either plant..

it is true that the further into flowering they are the longer they will take to revert.. i think thats where people have the problems... if they dont root fast enough they can die from dehydration... but you can also run into mold/mildew problems from leaving them in a humidity dome for too long... imho i think it is easiest to take cuttings late into flowering when using an ezcloner or bubble cloner.. this is because you dont need to worry about them not getting water since their stems are constantly being sprayed with it... this means you can avoid the possible mold/mildew issues.. and as long as you mist them occasionally you wont have to worry about them drying out.. of course you can still use rooting cubes and just add and remove the humidity dome as needed and still get fine results...

the key here is patience.. i can take up to 4 weeks to start showing roots.. some strains will take longer by nature... and if you add in the fact they are taken late into flowering you could be up for a long ride...

if after 4 weeks you dont see roots its probably a good bet it wont happen.. and it is possible in strains that have hermie tendencies that this can bring them out as this is a stressor...

but it can be done with great success... try it out... just make sure you follow the same rules you would for normal cuttings.. and if using a humidity dome watch out for mold or algae or anything like that.. and just be patient...

jessu simpson.. i sure can learn alot from people like you.. thanks again.. do you have any clues about reliable sources for either the ezcloner or the bubble cloner? i am sure i am starting to be a pest with all of these questions and all.. but ive always felt that the best way to learn was to ask lots of questions to knowledgeable people like yourself, and to sift through the answers and come up with a conclusion on my own.. as soon as i get done typing this out i will go do a search for cloning on here and see what kind of answers i can get for my questions.. also, just one more simple ? for ya.. do you have a preference when it comes to cloning gels.. gels or powders and or a specific product that you have had good experience with in the past?
once again.. thanks for any and all help that you have provided..

racerboy71 said:

jessu simpson.. i sure can learn alot from people like you.. thanks again.. do you have any clues about reliable sources for either the ezcloner or the bubble cloner? i am sure i am starting to be a pest with all of these questions and all.. but ive always felt that the best way to learn was to ask lots of questions to knowledgeable people like yourself, and to sift through the answers and come up with a conclusion on my own.. as soon as i get done typing this out i will go do a search for cloning on here and see what kind of answers i can get for my questions.. also, just one more simple ? for ya.. do you have a preference when it comes to cloning gels.. gels or powders and or a specific product that you have had good experience with in the past?
once again.. thanks for any and all help that you have provided..

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not being a pest at all.. wouldnt extend the offer for help if i didnt want to help out..

first here is a link to an ezcloner... they have 30, 60, and 120 site models.. they are a bit pricey.. but include everything you need except rooting hormones... the nice thing about these is there is no rush to transplant your cuttings once they root... you can allow them to get 10 inch roots if you want.. http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=EZC200&AC=1

now that will use a liquid hormone such as this http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=CCS305&AC=1

you can expect roots as quick as 2 or 3 days.. but typically no longer than 7 to 10 days...

whether i am using rooting cubes or the ezcloner i prefer gels over powders.. this is a personal preference, because either works well.. i like the gel tho because i feel it coats better.. and if i use the gel and place the cuttings in the ezcloner i dont need to worry about clumps of powder in my pump of getting in the sprayers...

i like both clonex and roottech equally... both are very good products... you can get some rooting stuff at wal mart or your local gardening center also that will work fine.. i just have had great success with these specfic products...

http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?sku=CLO310&AC=1

http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?sku=RG300&AC=1