Fukushima, No Cause for Alarm

NLXSK1 said:

Ok, but that doesnt prove either theory.

Do you know the difference between weapons grade nuclear material and the stuff they used in that reactor? Weapons grade material has to be MUCH more refined to achieve the critical mass we are talking about.

So again, please provide some scientific evidence or citations to back up either theory that it could blow up or melt through the earths crust...

I think you are the one who has a lot to learn.

Click to expand...

You realise without critical mass no reaction occurs?

I love that part.

"if the magma was under pressure...." Well. let's say it was and it is. A bar of pressure = 14.7 pound/sq inch.

So, a magic hole of just one inch wide, to the mantle will produce 14.7 x 9600 = 70 tons of pressure per square inch

So, if we realize that the "hole" will be quite large, many feet across at least, we see from the pressure gradient our problems start long before it gets to the mantle. And before we get anywhere close to mantle it will already be a SuperRadio Stratospheric Volcano.

Distribution of pressure within the Earth

Example: what is the pressure at the base of 40-km of granite crust
= 9.6 kbar















For the Earth’s crust, the relation between pressure and

depth is roughly 1 GPa or 10 kbar per 35-40 km.

My brother does work for companies that run nuclear reactors. This event shook him to the core. No pun intended. A meltdown was not all that unthinkable. What he said to me at the time was that if the nuclear material was no longer cooled and burned through the containment vessel that all bets would be off. His belief is that it would burn to the mantle and that could mean Armageddon-a nuclear winter. But no one really knows since it has never happened. This is a very simplified version of my conversations with him.

He, also, said those men that gave their lives to get control of the power plant were some of the bravest men on the planet. Their deaths were probably horrifying.

Winter Woman said:

My brother does work for companies that run nuclear reactors. This event shook him to the core. No pun intended. A meltdown was not all that unthinkable. What he said to me at the time was that if the nuclear material was no longer cooled and burned through the containment vessel that all bets would be off. His belief is that it would burn to the mantle and that could mean Armageddon-a nuclear winter. But no one really knows since it has never happened. This is a very simplified version of my conversations with him.

He, also, said those men that gave their lives to get control of the power plant were some of the bravest men on the planet. Their deaths were probably horrifying.

Click to expand...

Yeah, at least they knew what they were up against. Some of the guys firefighting on the roof of Chernobyl where walking dead the first minute.

Winter Woman said:

He, also, said those men that gave their lives to get control of the power plant were some of the bravest men on the planet. Their deaths were probably horrifying.

Click to expand...

agree with all you said as well , but this rings so true ^....those men are legends in my mind . . .the sacrifice they made was uncanny

Doer said:

It isn't me that is saying it. It is already a melt down. It has already broken containment and is threatening to blow.

At present, three of the reactors at Fukushima Daiichi station are seriously crippled. Units 1 and 3 have experienced explosions that destroyed exterior walls, apparently from buildups of hydrogen gas produced by the zirconium in the fuel rods reacting with coolant water at extremely high temperatures—but the interior containment vessels there thus far seem to be intact. A third explosion was reported March 15 at reactor No. 2, and the situation there appears direr. Pressure in the suppression pool—a doughnut-shaped water vessel below the reactor—dropped after the explosion, indicating that the containment vessel had been compromised.





50, 000 Hiroshimas....are you being dense on purpose? It is happening and it is out of control. And there is no plan.

Click to expand...

That event happened in 2011. It is my belief that they have been flooding the reactor ever since, but that is just a guess. But it can happen and if it does it will ruin vast amounts of farm land here in the USA. Yes, people will die but it is the birth defects in animals and humans that are the real problem.

Doer,
The fault I see in your argument is one of "fallacy of composition".
Yes, the sum total of all the material at Fukushima has potential to do XYZ...

However, look at the individual rods first. What is their makeup? You can't calculate critical mass until you know what you are dealing with.
Second, how are they currently positioned? Is there any form of physical external shielding?

[HR][/HR]Each "fuel assembly," roughly 15 feet long, is a unit containing 82 fuel rods full of the reactor's fuel: uranium oxide pellets. During periodic refueling shutdowns, workers typically replace 20 to 30 percent of the fuel assemblies.

Once extracted from the reactor, the used assemblies are housed in close-fitting steel containers that are treated with boron, to ensure they don't resume the chain reactions necessary to generate electricity.
[HR][/HR]http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0315/Meltdown-101-What-are-spent-fuel-pools-and-why-are-they-a-threat


http://www.oecd-nea.org/sfcompo/Ver.2/Eng/Fukushima-Daiichi-3/index.html


How do these facts integrate into your hypothesis?

heckler73 said:

Doer,
The fault I see in your argument is one of "fallacy of composition".
Yes, the sum total of all the material at Fukushima has potential to do XYZ...

However, look at the individual rods first. What is their makeup? You can't calculate critical mass until you know what you are dealing with.
Second, how are they currently positioned? Is there any form of physical external shielding?

[HR][/HR]Each "fuel assembly," roughly 15 feet long, is a unit containing 82 fuel rods full of the reactor's fuel: uranium oxide pellets. During periodic refueling shutdowns, workers typically replace 20 to 30 percent of the fuel assemblies.

Once extracted from the reactor, the used assemblies are housed in close-fitting steel containers that are treated with boron, to ensure they don't resume the chain reactions necessary to generate electricity.
[HR][/HR]http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0315/Meltdown-101-What-are-spent-fuel-pools-and-why-are-they-a-threat

View attachment 2830481
http://www.oecd-nea.org/sfcompo/Ver.2/Eng/Fukushima-Daiichi-3/index.html


How do these facts integrate into your hypothesis?

Click to expand...

Problem is these rods are not housed.

NLXSK1 said:

You havent explained why the magma just doesnt keep blowing out of these massive holes from all the pressure you describe.

The meltdown they are worried about is the nuclear material melting through the contaiment vessel causing further pollution.

Lets say that the fuel could melt through rock. Is it hot enough to completely vaporize rock? If not, what happens to the melted rock below the fuel? If the fuel keeps sinking in the molten rock then it would eventually cover the fuel and harden forming a crust over the fuel as it decended to the center of the earth.

NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN!!! Other than the obvious local pollution they are dealing with.

You never addressed how millions of people can survive and thrive in and around Hiroshima and Nagasaki yet...

This is a local pollution problem, not an extinction event...

Click to expand...

But, they do just keep going, these mantle breeches. And don't morph it to say, I expect the Syndrome out of Fuk. I don't. But, if was able to get a plume connected the mantle, then that is it. It is more or less a permanent feature in the crust.

heckler73 said:

Doer,
The fault I see in your argument is one of "fallacy of composition".
Yes, the sum total of all the material at Fukushima has potential to do XYZ...

However, look at the individual rods first. What is their makeup? You can't calculate critical mass until you know what you are dealing with.
Second, how are they currently positioned? Is there any form of physical external shielding?

[HR][/HR]Each "fuel assembly," roughly 15 feet long, is a unit containing 82 fuel rods full of the reactor's fuel: uranium oxide pellets. During periodic refueling shutdowns, workers typically replace 20 to 30 percent of the fuel assemblies.

Once extracted from the reactor, the used assemblies are housed in close-fitting steel containers that are treated with boron, to ensure they don't resume the chain reactions necessary to generate electricity.
[HR][/HR]http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0315/Meltdown-101-What-are-spent-fuel-pools-and-why-are-they-a-threat

View attachment 2830481
http://www.oecd-nea.org/sfcompo/Ver.2/Eng/Fukushima-Daiichi-3/index.html


How do these facts integrate into your hypothesis?

Click to expand...

That was before the disaster. The fuel rods are melted, and they have melt thru the bottom of the containment.




http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS-Fukushima_fuel_melt_confirmed-1605115.html

NLXSK1 is just saying that the lives of the japanese and eastern coast of asians don't matter.

He seems to have forgotten that EVERYONE within the city limits of Hiroshima and Nagasaki died. And people on the edge died from radiation poisoning.

Flaming Pie said:

NLXSK1 is just saying that the lives of the japanese and eastern coast of asians don't matter.

Click to expand...

No he isn't. I don't think he means that at all.

According to statistics found within Nagasaki Peace Park, the death toll from the atomic bombing totalled 73,884, including 2,000 Korean forced workers[SUP][7][/SUP] and eight POWs, as well as another 74,909 injured, and another several hundred thousand diseased and dying from fallout and other illness caused by radiation

Click to expand...

But all that radiation if it escapes into the air or sea in Fukushima won't cause any AMERICAN deaths so it is ok.

Right NLXSK1?

Doer said:

That was before the disaster. The fuel rods are melted, and they have melt thru the bottom of the containment.

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS-Fukushima_fuel_melt_confirmed-1605115.html

Click to expand...

AHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhh... okay.
Now at least I understand what you are concerned about in particular.
So you are worried about the corium?

Then you need info about how much material is in there...
All those other numbers quoted earlier are irrelevant.

THE DEEPENING CRISIS AT FUKUSHIMA is explained by GORDON EDWARDS, President of the Canadian Coalition for Nuclear Responsibility. Gordon is one of the world's leading expert on atomic power and Fukushima. He makes it clear that the terrifying outflow of contaminated water pouring through the Fukushima site is a clear and present threat to all living things in the Pacific Ocean and to human life in general. The crisis is clearly beyond the ability of Tepco, the Japanese government or perhaps the world nuclear as a whole. Join us at the Green Power &
Wellness Show to explore the horrors of this utter breakdown of the nuclear folly.


http://greenpowerwellnessshow.podbean.com/2013/08/12/green-power-and-wellness-080813/

And Tepco's Sept 2013 presentation (but they aren't talking about the cores).
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ac7_1379630713

Using Muons to map the cores????
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130807115624.htm

Winter Woman said:

No he isn't. I don't think he means that at all.

Click to expand...

NLXSK1 said:

You just moved the goal posts quite a bit there...

Yes, it will kill things near the site of the pollution. It just is not going to be a global issue, and it will not significantly affect America.

Click to expand...

NLXSK1 said:

I think you need a lot more heat for it to reach critical mass and explode. Therefore, we are just worried about the pollution.

If the individual radioactive ion's (or whatever) are distributed in an enormous amount of ocean water, they are dispersed enough to not cause fatal damage to anything.

We BLEW UP 2 cities in Japan and now they are thriving economic centers. How long did that take? And that was on land with massive fallout...

It is a huge problem if you are close to it but as you get farther away from the pollution event it becomes geometrically less dangerous.

The earth is covered by 80% water. The volumes you are talking about are insignificant when compared.

I am more worried about asteroids...

Click to expand...

Of course he doesn't.

Harrekin said:

You realise without critical mass no reaction occurs?

Click to expand...

Radioactive material is reacting all the time. It is the shit that it throws off during these REACTIONS that make it dangerous...

Is all radioactive material at critical mass all the time?

*sigh*

NLXSK1 said:

Radioactive material is reacting all the time. It is the shit that it throws off during these REACTIONS that make it dangerous...

Is all radioactive material at critical mass all the time?

*sigh*

Click to expand...

You are on an endless fail cascade.

Radioactive isotopes break down naturally, releasing small amounts of radiation.

Fission reactions cause atoms to break up, releasing huge amounts of heat and radiation that dwarfs anything else that happens naturally on this planet.

Not the same thing, even vaguely.

Im just wondering what the general consensus on nuclear power is now.

Chern wasn't enough of a disaster to kill the nuclear power profit train, now the force of
nature takes out another facility and is showing a larger scale of harm.

When does the potential of disaster out weigh profits?

The ease of disaster is actually too easy, from computer virus to severe storms, why would anyone want to be powered by
or living in proximity to nuclear power. Really what do you gain by promoting the power when it can be produced by other means.

this is getting funny