GDP & Quantum Boards - smokebros style

smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Wellcome back to the grow table!
Nice thread and things are very well explained.
To less air movement is a common issues with LED. With HPS it was clear to everyone because of the heat. With LED the most users thinks, it's simply not needed to run fans that high as with HPS untill they recognize, there is way to less transpiration.
In my first few runs with LED I run into the same trouble and frankly, I took a lot longer than you needed to see what it was all about, LOL! I believed in calmag deficiency, bleaching and everything possible until I came up with the idea it could be too less airmovement.
The water consumption should not be below that of HPS grown plants, more on the contrary, with higher radiation density, the water consumption should also increase, so that enough nutrients are absorbed.
Actually logical...!

BTW,
The funny lookin' of the first pairs of leaves is usually due to low humidity, because there are not enough roots.
You could take transparent party cups and put them over in the first few weeks.
But since it disappears anyway, when they get bigger, you can still do without it.
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Thanks for droppin in @Randomblame, all good information and I appreciate the kind words. Thanks for the welcome back. There's still some old names I recognize, but lots of new members in the community nowadays that I haven't interacted with yet.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
smokebros said:
Thanks for droppin in @Randomblame, all good information and I appreciate the kind words. Thanks for the welcome back. There's still some old names I recognize, but lots of new members in the community nowadays that I haven't interacted with yet.
Click to expand...
Haha, thanks!
I recognize good work when I see it!
I belong more to the newer ones, LOL!. ~2 years passively and then started actively to contribute to the LED forum here.
Many good people have been gone in recent 2 years, so I'm always happy when someone comes back.
 
smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
Good morning and Merry Christmas Eve, RIU community.

It's been 46 since my last update and this post has been long overdue. I've been fairly busy over the last 1.5 months and haven't had the ambition to update this thread as often as I should. Much like my last grow, this go-around I've experienced some up's & down's as I hone my skills.

Much of November consisted of chasing deficiencies and wrapping my head around the art of growing in Coco Coir. Up until my last grow in which I finished in a 50/50 FFOF/Coco mix, I was a soil grower. I've been learning the hard way over the last 6 weeks about the fundamental differences in approach needed with 100% coco versus soil.

More or less it came down to feeding schedule, consistency & strength of feeding, and keeping the medium saturated with water. This was a new ideology to me and I'm finally getting into a groove with my approach.

Two weeks ago I shifted away from Dyna-Gro and began using Canna Coco A&B. In no way is it a slight on DG. I intend on using DG in the future but just not sure when.

What I've found to be successful in veg with Cann Coco is this schedule in the following order:
  • 40PPM Protekt by Dyna-Gro
  • 200PPM Calimagic by GH
  • 400-500PPM Canna Coco A&B
  • 2.5ML per gallon jumpstart by Growmore
  • 2.5ML per gallon Biocozyme by Growmore
  • 2.5ML per gallon of Recharge by Realgrowers
I've been trying to land the PPM's between 675-775PPM, use 100% R/O water, and always PH'ing to 6.0.

Yesterday I switched out tents from the 3x3 to 4x4 Secret Jardin. The extra space is a godsend with the size of the plants and rate they're growing. I intend on flowering the room in 1-2 weeks.

December 2nd, 2017
Transplanted into 10 gallon smartpots. 100% coco, RG Tupur & FF Cocoloco mix. Notice the light green color?
IMG_5412.JPG

Photo taken on 12/23/17 - GDP #1
IMG_5426.JPG

Photo take 12/23/17 - GDP #2
IMG_5425.JPG

The plants are in overall decent/good shape, but some of the mid to upper growth got really sensitive when I cranked the QB's up to 575 watts from 180 watts without gradually increasing.
 
OrganicGorilla

OrganicGorilla

Well-Known Member
smokebros said:
They are feminized GDP seeds from GDP. They were the most expensive seeds I've purchased, somewhere around $30 per seed. I'm hoping the end product is fire!
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Hey @smokebros! I’ll be following along! I just wet 10 Original GDP fems myself! Cost was $360 CAD for the 10 beans but I’ll be keeping the best purple pheno that I can find, for future grows and crosses, so the cost is justified...
Looking great so far my friend! Merry Christmas
 
smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
GrowGorilla said:
Hey @smokebros! I’ll be following along! I just wet 10 Original GDP fems myself! Cost was $360 CAD for the 10 beans but I’ll be keeping the best purple pheno that I can find, for future grows and crosses, so the cost is justified...
Looking great so far my friend! Merry Christmas
Click to expand...
Thanks, Merry belated X-Mas to you as well. Hopefully you find a keeper pheno you like out of the pack. I just had 4 out of 4 clones root for me in about 9 days. I used olivia's cloning gel, rapid rooters, and just RO water with about 75PPM of Dyna Gro Foliage Pro in a spray bottle, plus a heat pad.



12/26/17 Update

Watering Info - Mixed a light solution.
  • 4 Gallons R/O / 10 PPM
  • 10ML Protekt / 20 PPM
  • Unknown amount of Calimagic, used 200PPM
  • 25ML Coco A
  • 25ML Coco B
Final PPM 600, PH was around 6.4 so I lowered it to 6.0. They only drank about 1/2 of what I mixed up so I'll water in the rest tomorrow or Friday. The watering after that will have biocozyme, jumpstart, kelp, and recharge. As a pest preventative I'll water in some azamax in the next week or so.

IMG_5441.JPG IMG_5442.JPG
 
smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
12-28-17 Update

2018 is fast approaching and looking back on 2017 I can smile and feel good - I've accomplished a lot both in & out of the garden, and I'm saying that as I toke on a fine joint of Sour Diesel that I brought to life and then reaped.

Tomorrow will be day 1 of flower as I've decided to flip the switch. After putting the plants on milk crates, the larger of the two plants sits 20'' from the lights. Since I haven't grown this strain I'm a bit concerned about how much they will stretch through early flower.
I am considering just sawing the milk crates down to about 1-2'' tall, keeping the bottom of the smart pots just above the water level. It was kind of a pain in the ass dealing with runoff - having to vacuum the water out of the saucers to keep the plants from sitting in stagnant water.
The milk crates raise the plants 11'' above ground level, as mentioned sawing them down would gain me 9-10'' back. I can also raise my lights about 2-3 more inches. Doing all of this would allow for roughly 24''-28'' of "stretch. If I get the vibe that they'll grow any taller than that, I'll begin bending and trellising down.

Tonight I watered. I've decided to incorporate grow more's seaweed extract every time I use my base nutrients. 2.5ML per gallon has almost no affect on PPM's, raising them about 10 or so. Extra trace elements are a plus to me. One other change I made tonight is reducing the calimagic to 115-120PPM. Since I've gradually bumping up my base nutrients during late veg going into early flower more of the Ca and Mg is coming from the base nutrients instead of a separate bottle.

Plant's are doing well on an every-other-day type of watering schedule with a healthy amount of runoff. Going 3 days would give me anxiety, but I feel the 10 gallon pots would hold enough water to keep them happy enough to avoid any significant damage. I learned the hard way early on that they like a wet to slightly wet environment.

 
lukio

lukio

Well-Known Member
smokebros said:
2018 is fast approaching and looking back on 2017 I can smile and feel good - I've accomplished a lot both in & out of the garden, and I'm saying that as I toke on a fine joint of Sour Diesel that I brought to life and then reaped.
Click to expand...
(: nice one, here's to 2018!

Loving your diary. The detail is great. Plants looking lush

Im an led/RO/coco kinda guy and up until recently a full range canna coco nutes guy too...i battled the cal/mag issue. In the end, 12 million bottles of really expensive liquid got on my nerves and I recently jumped to dry salts and an all in one called MegaCrop...plants are loving it! check it out

Anyhoo...looking forward to seeing more!

Have a good new year
 
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smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
lukio said:
(: nice one, here's to to 2018!

Loving your diary. The detail is great. Plants looking lush

Im an led/RO/coco kinda guy and up until recently a full range canna coco nutes guy too...i battled the cal/mag issue. In the end, 12 million bottles of really expensive liquid got on my nerves and I recently jumped to dry salts and an all in one called MegaCrop...plants are loving it! check it out

Anyhoo...looking forward to seeing more!

Have a good new year
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Thank you @lukio, the kind words are much appreciated. I've seen you around the forums for quite a while, so the feedback means a lot.

I didn't anticipate switching over to Canna Coco when I started this grow, but I'm the type of person who doesn't mind a little change. So far I'm pleased with the results but I'd like to reserve my judgement until after the this grow. I have noticed that I'm going through the bottles at a faster rate than Dyna Gro so I'm curious to calculate out that cost at the end.

I already googled Megacrop and bookmarked a page to reference back to it, it looks really legit and reminds me of Jacks. I appreciate that information. Perhaps one day I make the switch to salts, sort of like Costa Mesa Steve who uses Growmore powdered nutrients and wont go back to bottled base nutrients. SO much more bang for your buck over bottled nutrients.

I had been considering ordering CaNO3 to replace my bottled calmag supplement when it runs out - not sure if you have any feedback on that?

Anyways, thanks again brother.
 
lukio

lukio

Well-Known Member
Ya welcome, man. It's great to see a good diary! There are tonnes of massively bright melt-my-mind clever people here, but not enough weed!

ive loved the canna range, i really have - it's done me proud. The issues ive had with it are recent and self induced for sure. Vader from Ocean Grown was the first guy i really got into watching and he's taught me everything i know via youtube, so thats why i went down that road. I believe the calmag issue caught me out because he doesnt grow under led and i copied his every move. Great teacher

I had a tonne of issues this grow, it looked like mag def so i upped the canna calmag and got N toxicity so fancied going for the complete control option of mono salts. Are you using a calmag that contains N? most do i believe.

I bought the UK's equivalent of jacks (close to the ratios but not quite the same) and that was going ok but then after loads of peeps from RIU told me try MegaCrop i ordered some from the states.
The idea of a 1 part solution was great because im really not the sharpest (: Plants have never looked happier and its incredibly cheap and easy and contains all the extras i love and saw you mention you like all that. Their reps are here on this forum, which i like, its great being able to chat to them directly. The UK is SO behind!

CaNO3, calcium nitrate. ive heard people say led plants need more cal and mag, i'm a firm believer in more mag as ive had the issues, but i'm not sure about cal. I dont think canna requires much Cal? even under led. My trouble is ive only ever really grown led and only ever used coco so my knowledge is pretty limited! Trying the 6 inch rockwool cubes next.

Anyways, I've had a beer and im rambling so i'll leave it there! subbed up and looking forward to seeing more.

Cheers!
 
smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
lukio said:
Ya welcome, man. It's great to see a good diary! There are tonnes of massively bright melt-my-mind clever people here, but not enough weed!

ive loved the canna range, i really have - it's done me proud. The issues ive had with it are recent and self induced for sure. Vader from Ocean Grown was the first guy i really got into watching and he's taught me everything i know via youtube, so thats why i went down that road. I believe the calmag issue caught me out because he doesnt grow under led and i copied his every move. Great teacher

I had a tonne of issues this grow, it looked like mag def so i upped the canna calmag and got N toxicity so fancied going for the complete control option of mono salts. Are you using a calmag that contains N? most do i believe.

I bought the UK's equivalent of jacks (close to the ratios but not quite the same) and that was going ok but then after loads of peeps from RIU told me try MegaCrop i ordered some from the states.
The idea of a 1 part solution was great because im really not the sharpest (: Plants have never looked happier and its incredibly cheap and easy and contains all the extras i love and saw you mention you like all that. Their reps are here on this forum, which i like, its great being able to chat to them directly. The UK is SO behind!

CaNO3, calcium nitrate. ive heard people say led plants need more cal and mag, i'm a firm believer in more mag as ive had the issues, but i'm not sure about cal. I dont think canna requires much Cal? even under led. My trouble is ive only ever really grown led and only ever used coco so my knowledge is pretty limited! Trying the 6 inch rockwool cubes next.

Anyways, I've had a beer and im rambling so i'll leave it there! subbed up and looking forward to seeing more.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
I stumbled across another thread over the weekend about MC and read through most of the pages. It was pretty long but I got through about 15 pages or so. In short, in the future I will definitely give it a shot, so thank you for "planting the seed" so to speak.

Over the years the two deficiencies I spent the most time trying to fix and understand have been Ca & Mg. It was so common for one or both to just "pop up" just as I was thinking that everything was going well. I couldn't seem to wrap my head around why... eventually I came across something that put the puzzle pieces together. I stumbled across Harley Smith from NPK University. I began watching his videos and taking notes and he made some very important statements about Calcium & Magnesium:
  • Ca is king.
  • Cannabis uses more Ca than P.
  • Ca deficiency can be caused by high humidity, even with Ca present in the root zone.
  • Lack of air movement causes the leaves to develop a vapor barrier on the bottomside and can't take in CO2. This foliar respiration inhibits the plant from uptaking Ca from this vapor barrier.
  • Ca creates pectin. More Ca = less chances of powdery mildew.
  • Ca gets "locked up" in the soil easily, important to use water soluble Ca.
  • Mg = central element of chlorophyll.
  • Mg is mobile, Ca is not. Ca def shows up at top of plant, Mg at bottom.
  • K deficiency shows as Mg deficiency.
  • Mg + K activates enzymes for phostate bonds to release energy.
I know a lot of that information is mentioned earlier in this thread, but Harley Smith is where I learned a lot of it.




Then I stumbled across an interview on the dudegrows show where Dave (owner of Dyna Gro) was interviewed. He mentioned that Ca is the absolute #1 element in growing cannabis, explaining that it should be treated as a macro element because of its importance.

This information was really important for me and it changed the way I approached growing. I began treated Ca as a macro element and I feel my plants are happy because of it. For a while I played around with a 75/25 or 50/50 RO/tap water mix - but this grow I decided I'd "dial in" my calmag usage and go 100% RO. So far I'm happy with the results (fingers crossed).

Regarding Vader - I too have a lot of respect for him. I wish I came across his channel on youtube earlier, but better late than never. His success and plant health is also partially responsible for my switch to canna.

Also wanted to mention one other thing... maybe it's not relevent anymore since you've switched to MC, but Growmore actually makes a "flowering calmag" without N, I believe they're the only company to offer something like this. It's available on amazon. It was from a dudegrows episode with sit-in interview with Growmore's formulator Jacob.
 
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smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
Jan 2nd, 2018 Update
  • Day 68 since sprout
  • Entering Day 5 of Flower
It's been a week since I've posted photos, so BOOM! photos.

Before I go any further, I already know. Defoliation is typically done right before flowering, and once again about 3 weeks into flowering. These plants have exploded with growth over the past week and I couldn't afford to wait 3 more weeks before defoliating. I decided the sooner the better and I'm happy with that decision. The plants have responded well and appear primed for hyper growth in the coming weeks.

In a few days I'll bump the canna a&b dosage to 11ML/gal. Both plants appear to have healthy new growth with no burn. The every-other-day watering schedule has been working, but I'm keeping a careful eye out because I have sense they may need to be watered daily in the near future.


Jan 1st, 2018 - prior to heavy defoliation. Plants appear taller because they were on milk crates.
1-2-17 before defoliation.JPG

Jan 1st, 2018 - post heavy defoliation. Milk crates were also cut down to 2'' tall. Plants appear a lot smaller because of this. Sad & droopy, the GDP on the right is beginning to drink fast.
SJ1-1-17 Defoliation.JPG

24 hours later on Jan 2nd, 2018 - the leaves perky, praying, and the plants are happy. The exhaust fan has been reconfigured to sit outside of the tent (like previous grows) and pull the air out through the carbon filter. I had to swap out 4'' fans because the one I had in there started making rattling noises. The QB's are looking sexy, ramped up to 575 watts and beaming down photons.
Secret Jardin 1-2-17.JPG

Front side view of the tent. The trellis net is currently being used to measure the plant stretch, not to hold them down. In a week or two I'll use it as intended to spread the branches out for light penetration.
SJ 1-2-17.JPG
 
lukio

lukio

Well-Known Member
smokebros said:
  • Ca is king.
  • Cannabis uses more Ca than P.
  • Ca deficiency can be caused by high humidity, even with Ca present in the root zone.
  • Lack of air movement causes the leaves to develop a vapor barrier on the bottomside and can't take in CO2. This foliar respiration inhibits the plant from uptaking Ca from this vapor barrier.
  • Ca creates pectin. More Ca = less chances of powdery mildew.
  • Ca gets "locked up" in the soil easily, important to use water soluble Ca.
  • Mg = central element of chlorophyll.
  • Mg is mobile, Ca is not. Ca def shows up at top of plant, Mg at bottom.
  • K deficiency shows as Mg deficiency.
  • Mg + K activates enzymes for phostate bonds to release energy.
Click to expand...
wow! everyday's a learning day. cal and coco coir is a lil bit different, right?

Your plants are looking lovely. As do the QB's (:

Ive heard people mention the calmag without N, would deffo be worth trying
 
smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
lukio said:
wow! everyday's a learning day. cal and coco coir is a lil bit different, right?
Click to expand...
You know, I'd be lying if I told you why coco has an encumbering effect towards calcium in cannabis plants. My theory would be based around coco being inert. My personal trepidation with switching to coco was that I coupled the switch with one to 100% RO water. I'm thankful the plants are healthy and happy because changing up two big variables like water and medium can be a recipe for disaster; I could have been chasing and chasing I could chase no more... thankfully I'm not.

lukio said:
Your plants are looking lovely. As do the QB's (:
Click to expand...
Gracias amigo. The plants are loving them too. They're chugging chugging along thinking the sun is literally inside the tent!

lukio said:
Ive heard people mention the calmag without N, would deffo be worth trying
Click to expand...
I haven't used it personally so I can't attest to the claims. With that being said it's in my shopping cart because I'm almost out of CaliMagic and figured I'd try it out. I suppose anyone reading this that's having N tox from their Ca & Mg/Base nute ratios, then look to growmore flowering calmag.
 
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smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
I was playing around in the grow room last night and thought this picture looked kind of cool. I have a cheap little fisheye lens that clips to my cellphone. Poor mans @lukio style.

Lights are off at the moment, but I'm curious to see how the plants response to the 900PPM feeding they got last night. I don't typically feed that high, but these plants are big and seem to feeding on everything I'm throwing* at them.

PPM Breakdown:
5PPM RO Water
30PPM Silica
215PPM calmag
600PPM Canna A&B
The remaining 50PPM was kelp, jumpstart, biocozyme, and recharge.


IMG_E2320.jpg
 
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DesertHydro

DesertHydro

Well-Known Member
nice growth there with the QBs. im looking to play around with some soon. looks like you need to defoliate again lol
 
smokebros

smokebros

Well-Known Member
DesertHydro said:
nice growth there with the QBs. im looking to play around with some soon. looks like you need to defoliate again lol
Click to expand...
Ugh... I know I know. I can hardly keep up with them.:wall:. I'll slowly defoliate over the next few days and follow up with a thorough defoliation next weekend.

DesertHydro said:
whats the kelvin rating on those boards? they seem to be vegging them quite well.
Click to expand...
3000k spectrum.
 
DesertHydro

DesertHydro

Well-Known Member
nice. i get great growth rates in tupur. pretty impressive no matter what media i think. ive got a 6000 kelvin COB rig and a 1k mh burning right now and im about to have to fire up another 1k as they are EXPLODING since i got my VPD dialed in. that would be my number one suggestion for any grower. dial your vpd and then work around that. makes a huge difference. i gotta go hand water now. i cant wait til my blumats come in so i wont have to hand water EVER AGAIN!!! lol
 
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