medicineman
New Member
Dear under, you fail to see the government you hate so much is one and the same as the corporations you love so much. Please take a moment to clear your head.
George bush...
- Thread starter bongspit
- Start date
ViRedd
New Member
You are such a condescending ass. "Clear your head" indeed! Undertheice is the clearest head in the forum, bar none.
In the above post, you are putting the government into the same box as the "evil" corporations that you hate so much. And yet ... you want the federal government to run every aspect of our lives ... including turning over our entire medical system to the feds. You don't make any sense, Med.
On your response to my "freedom & liberty" comment ... Just get the federal government back into the chains of the Constitution ... and freedom and liberty will once again rebound ... and abound.
Vi
We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
well said!!!
anyone have any proposals on how to go about getting our Constitution back(maybe not the best word, but im going with it)?
if we join with canada and mexico (N american union)we will surely lose americas constituition.
lets unite the people
undertheice
Well-Known Member
i neither love nor hate corporations as a whole. what i detest are those that seek to gain power they are not entitled to. they surely exist within big business as well as everywhere else, but government is almost totally comprised of them. what makes corporate corruption so dangerous is the protections provided by government. business alone may be controlled by the consumer, government has no oversight but itself once it begins to ignore the will of the people or, as seems to be the case these days, it manages to convince a gullible public to willingly hand over their right to self-determination.
ViRedd
New Member
"government has no oversight but itself once it begins to ignore the will of the people or, as seems to be the case these days, it manages to convince a gullible public to willingly hand over their right to self-determination"
Undertheice ...
You have no idea (well, maybe you do) how badly I wanted to arrest the little prick of an IRS auditor during my audit three months ago. The idiot kept telling me that I was guilty unless I could prove myself innocent. I picked up the auditor's phone to call the cops, but then it occurred to me ....
Vi
Undertheice ...
You have no idea (well, maybe you do) how badly I wanted to arrest the little prick of an IRS auditor during my audit three months ago. The idiot kept telling me that I was guilty unless I could prove myself innocent. I picked up the auditor's phone to call the cops, but then it occurred to me ....
Vi
medicineman
New Member
Nice try but you didn't get it. The corporations control the government, not the people. What you see as welfare run amok is the people trying to get their government back, like HEY, quit wasting billions on getting rich folk richer and start taking care of your own citizens needs, I know, I know, Just more of that commie crap.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
so your view is that business should stop being business and start being philanthropic organizations. businesses buy and sell thing, that's just what they do. if it's for sale, they will and should try to buy it. my view is that what is being offered for sale, our government, should never have been put on the auction block in the first place. our elected officials are not forced by business to prostitute themselves, they make that choice all on their own. while business may be guilty of a horrid lapse of ethics by purchasing that which should not be sold, government is guilty of the theft and misuse of the public trust. where business is sworn only to make profit, politicians are sworn to defend the rights of the people and provide for the welfare of the nation. are you getting this yet?
medicineman
New Member
You are absolutely right here, but what you are missing is it's too late, they are bought and sold together and one in the same. BTW, business has a giant lapse of conscience as well in not honoring anything but "profit". Profit as God is the mantra of business, I'm all for fair profit, but profit for profits sake is antithetical. If business ran with a modicum of conscience, I'd be all for it. Like when I ran my measly little Gas station: If I didn't treat my customers right and charge fair prices, they would go elsewheres, I had incentive to be honest and above board, and I was. The Corporation has only allegiance to the Board, which has allegiance to the stockholders etc. The customers and the communities are the losers, pollution takes a backseat to Profit, etc. Bribery is top priority to collect preferential treatment by government entities. Even wars are fought for profit, the ultimate evil. DO you see this???
undertheice
Well-Known Member
then let's tear it all down. in case you haven't been paying attention, i've been advocating the destruction of government all my life. without the protections of government, business must fall in line with the will of the people or it will fail. no matter how tightly the two may be wound together, they are separable.
of course profit is god. why be in business if there is nothing to be earned. what you fail to recognize is that, without the interference of government, profit is dependent on the consumer. your little gas station is a perfect example. the people, when allowed to exercise their choice, will choose to use those businesses that benefit them the most. without consumers who choose to use their product those boards and stockholders will force the corporations to amend the offending policies in order to attract the people back to their products. the problem lies in the fact that so many have depended on government as the solution, they have willingly given over their power in the marketplace, and government has let them down.
this is the direct result of government making itself available to be bribed and, indirectly, the unwillingness of the people to reign in such corruption merely because it's easier. government has sold itself and we've just looked the other way.
the business of america (the people) is business, the business of america (the government) is the protection of the people and their way of life.
medicineman
New Member
the business of america (the people) is business, the business of america (the government) is the protection of the people and their way of life.
This is where we part company. The business of America should not be business, but the sharing of the wonders of democracy. Corporations need to be owned by the workers, not some rich assholes with large stock portfolios that could care less what transpires within the corporate medium, but only what happens to their stock. Boards need to be made of workers and independent thinkers that can see the beneficial aspects of being a good citizen, (Corporate citizen). Corporations for corporations sake are evil entities. Profit is good, excess profit is evil. If the profits from corporations were used to provide communities with health care, improve schools and help the people that needed help, then the more profit the better. But when it goes to a select few rich fat cats so they can buy huge castles and yachts and 2nd-3rd-4Th homes, it is obscene.
This is where we part company. The business of America should not be business, but the sharing of the wonders of democracy. Corporations need to be owned by the workers, not some rich assholes with large stock portfolios that could care less what transpires within the corporate medium, but only what happens to their stock. Boards need to be made of workers and independent thinkers that can see the beneficial aspects of being a good citizen, (Corporate citizen). Corporations for corporations sake are evil entities. Profit is good, excess profit is evil. If the profits from corporations were used to provide communities with health care, improve schools and help the people that needed help, then the more profit the better. But when it goes to a select few rich fat cats so they can buy huge castles and yachts and 2nd-3rd-4Th homes, it is obscene.
bongspit
New Member
this is an excerpt from a letter to the editor in today's Tennessean newspaper...it's hard to believe there are people that still defend him..
Agree with him or not, Bush is highly intelligent
Langstons statement that Bush is the least smart president this country has ever had is totally ridiculous. Public records dont list his IQ, but Bush scored 1,206 on his SAT scores. His verbal score of 566 was in the 95th percentile and his math score of 640, in the 98th percentile.
Lastly, Mr. Langston states that Bush will leave a legacy of being ... the most arrogant president. What an arrogant statement to make.
Just because you disagree with him doesnt mean hes arrogant. And, just because, unlike the previous president, Bush doesnt make decisions by sticking his finger in the air to see which way the winds of popular opinion are blowing, it doesnt mean hes arrogant.
It means that he makes decisions based on his beliefs (popular or not) about what is best for our country.
Oh, for the old days when presidents were respected because of the office they held, and only their political positions attacked, not their character
Agree with him or not, Bush is highly intelligent
Langstons statement that Bush is the least smart president this country has ever had is totally ridiculous. Public records dont list his IQ, but Bush scored 1,206 on his SAT scores. His verbal score of 566 was in the 95th percentile and his math score of 640, in the 98th percentile.
Lastly, Mr. Langston states that Bush will leave a legacy of being ... the most arrogant president. What an arrogant statement to make.
Just because you disagree with him doesnt mean hes arrogant. And, just because, unlike the previous president, Bush doesnt make decisions by sticking his finger in the air to see which way the winds of popular opinion are blowing, it doesnt mean hes arrogant.
It means that he makes decisions based on his beliefs (popular or not) about what is best for our country.
Oh, for the old days when presidents were respected because of the office they held, and only their political positions attacked, not their character
medicineman
New Member
I am suspect of anything related to Bush's intelligence. There are ways to change test scores and having an ex-president billionaire for a father could pretty much buy you any test score you wanted. That guy is a bonafied idiot. Even if hes not, he does a great impression of one.
ZenMaster
Well-Known Member
What evidence do you have to support this claim, Med? If it was a president you loved you wouldn't even consider that maybe their rich father bought their SAT scores? You are very hypocritical.
It truly amazes me to see how much creativity is produced to invent new ways to insult the president on a daily basis.
The problem is, if no one keeps these loony left-winged liberals (LLL) in check, they continue to imagine more and more slander to spew out with growing boldness on the media and forums, such as this.
Unfortunately, uneducated people read the nonsense from the wacked-out lefties and put faith behind their hollow words, and thus, they gain numbers.
My poor brethren.
^^^^
medicineman
New Member
You call me a hypocrite for calling Bush an Idiot then turn around and call me a whacked out liberal. Seems like it is you who are in the hypocritical boat. Too bad your boat is sinking as the people are fed up with the lies from the right, the old boogeyman stories ars getting a little old, OOOHHH were all so scaird of the big bad Boogeyman, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, OOOHHH were all so scaird. What we should really be scaird of are the idiots calling for war. It is these fear mongers that have cost the US a trillion Bucks. Fear, What we should fear is fear, I think FDR summed it up. Your right wing rhetoric is 99% bullshit and the other 1% is just flat out lies.
ZenMaster
Well-Known Member
Really? What lies? If you make me, i'll again (for the 3rd time) bring up my list of countries who thought Iraq had WMDs and the fact we gave him a 2 year warning we were coming so he could bury/scrap all the evidence.
Is that it? Is that all the "lies" you can come up with? You make it sound like it has been a continual barrage of bullshit but it hasn't. You loony left-winged liberals like to blow shit out of proportion to make your views less radical in a desperate attempt to maintain the illusion of you having any logic.
medicineman
New Member
Looney left wing liberals. Is that all you've got. You must be a fucking Idiot to even consider supporting Bush after all he's done to fuck the country. If you are at all for freedom, you must take issue with his flagrant abuses of our libertys, If not, then there is no use in conversing with you. For you are so brainwashed that nothing would ever change your retarded mind. I'm pretty convinced that you're stuck on stupid.
ViRedd
New Member
The question was: "Really? What lies?"
Med's response was: "Looney left wing liberals. Is that all you've got. You must be a fucking Idiot to even consider supporting Bush after all he's done to fuck the country. If you are at all for freedom, you must take issue with his flagrant abuses of our liberties, If not, then there is no use in conversing with you. For you are so brainwashed that nothing would ever change your retarded mind. I'm pretty convinced that you're stuck on stupid."
Translation for Med's response: "Oh shit, he's presenting me with logic ... I'd better get into my diversional, personal attack mode, so I can side step the question."
Vi
Med's response was: "Looney left wing liberals. Is that all you've got. You must be a fucking Idiot to even consider supporting Bush after all he's done to fuck the country. If you are at all for freedom, you must take issue with his flagrant abuses of our liberties, If not, then there is no use in conversing with you. For you are so brainwashed that nothing would ever change your retarded mind. I'm pretty convinced that you're stuck on stupid."
Translation for Med's response: "Oh shit, he's presenting me with logic ... I'd better get into my diversional, personal attack mode, so I can side step the question."
Vi
ZenMaster
Well-Known Member
You are continually convincing me that your all talk and no back up.
Contrary to what you might believe, I'm very open minded, I even play devil's advocate with my own affiliation. Questioning brings further knowledge.
However, I am not impressed with the liberal views and the way they present them, and this goes for you as well.
One of the very few things I didn't wholly approve of on Bush's agenda was the Patriot Act, I'll admit this. However you are blind to the fact that it was passed by a democratically controlled Congress. Hate on Bush all you want but its your party's fault as well.
So, enlighten me, how is voting democrat a vote for freedom? The freedom of the IRS gaining strength to regulate my ass? The freedom of higher taxes? Best of all, The freedom of FORCING the public to buy health insurance.
Fuck increasing social programs, fuck higher taxes, fuck bureaucracy, fuck socialism, and most of all, fuck pussying out on foreign policy.
medicineman
New Member
Well, then, Fuck all right wing bullshit, fuck war, Fuck corporational rule, fuck repukes, and a whole lot more of fucks to the right. I don't like Nazi dictators anymore than commie dictators and all that nonsense that you and Vi preach is destined to lead us to one or the other. Pay your fucking taxes and quit bitching, geeze you right wing nazis are so fucking predictable.