Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

Indoor is indoor whether you're in Baja or Bakersfield.

Hey Al, just finished reading 57 pages of GREAT information, thanks much. I know quite A FEW many 'lazier' stoners (looking in MY general direction).

One thing I noticed was quite a few of the same questions.....in the interest of the next person, I've taken the liberty of summing it all up.
NOTE: I've adjusted the following a bit just w/anecdotes I've picked up, 'notes to self', and a adjustment for DWC--not necessarily endorsed by Al.
Hope this helps and I would be honored with a critique.
***************************************************
Sea Of Green
SEE 1st PAGE FOR SPECIFIICS--------THESE ARE JUST NOTES

Needed: 2 (eventually) 1000W HPS w/digi ballast, one over each pair of 4' x 4' trays
H2O2 (50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/litre, about every 3-4 days)
Vita Grow Anti-Wilt Concentrate
Superthrive
Panda film
Canna Flores Substra
Canna Vega Substra
Canna PK-13-14.
Paper plates to cover plants base (no light on roots)
'Indoor Marijuana Horticulture' ISBN 1-878823-17-5


Motherz
Plants grown from seed need 6-8 weeks to sexual maturity.
-Under my old light, 24 hrs
Canna Vega Sunstra, 1400ppm, 5.5-5.8, also H2O2, Epsom salts and calcium.
‘Tip’ the main growth to force division
Take 15 days to re-grow-so 3 Momz need are really 6, (3 replacements)
-After 3-4 cuttings (about 2 mos worth) discard and replace (get gnarly), ready in about 2 weeks.


Clonez
-Rooting takes 10-12 days
-No grow nutes added to clone watering mixture.
-pH correct with phosphoric acid 'pHDown' to 5.5 and add 10ml 50% grade H2O2 per 10L of clone watering soln
-Use my fluorescent 10-12 days, then put in BLOOM
24 hr light EXCEPT for 1st cutting (1 night dark, next few 18/6)
Every 2 weeks

Flower
All flowering tanks:
-get Canna Flores Substra, 1400ppm @ 5.5-5.8 (400ml ea A & B in 125L tank of 7.1 tapwater). except last tray
- teaspoon of Epsom Salts per 100L w/each new fresh mix
-10ml/125L of Canna liquid calcium. w/each new fresh mix
-get dosed with H2O2, 50% grade @ 1ml/litre every 3-4 days to control pathogens.
-1000 HPS @ 12/12

-tray 1 is mixed for just-rooted cuttings, from week 0-2. (900-1100ppm)pH5.8
-tray 2 is for week 2-4 (TRIM time!-once in week 2, once in 3) and gets a slightly stronger mix than #1.
-tray 3 gets 1300-1500ppm
Also gets a dose of 0.5ml/litre Canna PK-13-14 in wk 5 (a Phosphorous additive). (1300-1500ppm + whatever the PK-13-14 bumps it up to)
-tray 4 can be simply pH adjusted tap water
-Can just be ONE tray

As each batch of clones goes in to tray #1, a batch comes out of tray #4 to be harvested, every 2 weeks.

1400ppm @ 5.8.
Don't overwater nor overfertilize, keep your room at 24-26C @ 30-50% RH
Ppm may be lower for DWC
*****************************************************

A few questions popped up as I was reading, as well. When you have the time.......

First, totally off base, but how do you change your handle? Mine says 'RisingStock---stranger. That bothers me for some reason.....

Anyway, back to the questions:
1) Why would you use a dehumidifier in winter? Doesn't the house heating tend to dry things out anyway?
2) For those wanting to add CO2, I read somewhere spraying your plants with plain soda water helps (releases trace amounts of CO2).....any thoughts on that?
3) I know you wrote it somewhere, but when cloning you don't presently use anything but pH adjusted water and a cloning powder, correct? Can you recommend a good brand? Sorry if that's repetitive.
4) Along those same lines, any thoughts on Superthrive or Vita Grow Anti-Wilt Concentrate? (for us clone-challenged)
Lastly, I'm starting straight from seeds, I have 10, all feminized.....planning on keeping 3 as Moms and going straight to flower with the other 7, do I still have to wait the 6-8 weeks for those 7 to be sexually ready before they can go into flower? Or is sooner OK?.....

Thanks man, this is like the holy grail of threads......

By the way, what do cool tubes do? What the name suggests I'm guessing.....

RisingStock said:

Hey Al, just finished reading 57 pages of GREAT information, thanks much. I know quite A FEW many 'lazier' stoners (looking in MY general direction).

One thing I noticed was quite a few of the same questions.....in the interest of the next person, I've taken the liberty of summing it all up.
NOTE: I've adjusted the following a bit just w/anecdotes I've picked up, 'notes to self', and a adjustment for DWC--not necessarily endorsed by Al.
Hope this helps and I would be honored with a critique.
***************************************************
Sea Of Green
SEE 1st PAGE FOR SPECIFIICS--------THESE ARE JUST NOTES

Needed: 2 (eventually) 1000W HPS w/digi ballast, one over each pair of 4' x 4' trays
H2O2 (50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/litre, about every 3-4 days)
Vita Grow Anti-Wilt Concentrate
Superthrive
Panda film
Canna Flores Substra
Canna Vega Substra
Canna PK-13-14.
Paper plates to cover plants base (no light on roots)
'Indoor Marijuana Horticulture' ISBN 1-878823-17-5


Motherz
Plants grown from seed need 6-8 weeks to sexual maturity.
-Under my old light, 24 hrs
Canna Vega Sunstra, 1400ppm, 5.5-5.8, also H2O2, Epsom salts and calcium.
‘Tip’ the main growth to force division
Take 15 days to re-grow-so 3 Momz need are really 6, (3 replacements)
-After 3-4 cuttings (about 2 mos worth) discard and replace (get gnarly), ready in about 2 weeks.


Clonez
-Rooting takes 10-12 days
-No grow nutes added to clone watering mixture.
-pH correct with phosphoric acid 'pHDown' to 5.5 and add 10ml 50% grade H2O2 per 10L of clone watering soln
-Use my fluorescent 10-12 days, then put in BLOOM
24 hr light EXCEPT for 1st cutting (1 night dark, next few 18/6)
Every 2 weeks

Flower
All flowering tanks:
-get Canna Flores Substra, 1400ppm @ 5.5-5.8 (400ml ea A & B in 125L tank of 7.1 tapwater). except last tray
- teaspoon of Epsom Salts per 100L w/each new fresh mix
-10ml/125L of Canna liquid calcium. w/each new fresh mix
-get dosed with H2O2, 50% grade @ 1ml/litre every 3-4 days to control pathogens.
-1000 HPS @ 12/12

-tray 1 is mixed for just-rooted cuttings, from week 0-2. (900-1100ppm)pH5.8
-tray 2 is for week 2-4 (TRIM time!-once in week 2, once in 3) and gets a slightly stronger mix than #1.
-tray 3 gets 1300-1500ppm
Also gets a dose of 0.5ml/litre Canna PK-13-14 in wk 5 (a Phosphorous additive). (1300-1500ppm + whatever the PK-13-14 bumps it up to)
-tray 4 can be simply pH adjusted tap water
-Can just be ONE tray

As each batch of clones goes in to tray #1, a batch comes out of tray #4 to be harvested, every 2 weeks.

1400ppm @ 5.8.
Don't overwater nor overfertilize, keep your room at 24-26C @ 30-50% RH
Ppm may be lower for DWC
*****************************************************

Click to expand...

I think that mother plants may need three months to fully mature if Im not mistaken

RisingStock said:

Hey Al, just finished reading 57 pages of GREAT information, thanks much.

Click to expand...

No problem.

One thing I noticed was quite a few of the same questions.....in the interest of the next person, I've taken the liberty of summing it all up.
NOTE: I've adjusted the following a bit just w/anecdotes I've picked up, 'notes to self', and a adjustment for DWC--not necessarily endorsed by Al.
Hope this helps and I would be honored with a critique.

Click to expand...

OK

Needed: 2 (eventually) 1000W HPS w/digi ballast, one over each pair of 4' x 4' trays
H2O2 (50% grade H2O2 @ 1ml/litre, about every 3-4 days)
Vita Grow Anti-Wilt Concentrate
Superthrive

Click to expand...

(items in red are not particularly necessary, esp the digi ballast. Electronic types are far too expensive for no benefit but about a 5% power savings. Claims of up to 30% increased luminous output are simply false. I've tested a Lumatek 600 vs a std mag, side by side, with a lux meter- and there's no difference in luminous output at all. Traditional magnetic (inductive) ballasts are 1/3 to 1/4 the price of electronic types and have 10-20 year lifespans- my magnetic ballasts are now 8 yrs old. Failure of electronic ballasts in under 5 yrs is common.

Use 3'x3' instead of 4'x4' trays. If you want to use 4x4's, use 4x 750W HPS, one over each tray. 750W is a new std value for HPS. 750W HPS ballasts & lamps may not be widely available yet.

Panda film
Canna Flores Substra
Canna Vega Substra
Canna PK-13-14.
Paper plates to cover plants base (no light on roots) (paper plates are not lightproof, use discs of panda film instead)
'Indoor Marijuana Horticulture' ISBN 1-878823-17-5


Flower
[...]
-Can just be ONE tray

Click to expand...

Could be one tray but this prevents proper application of PK1314. PK is applied to wk5 flowering plants for one wk only. If you have only one tank, you'd dose all the plants.

RisingStock said:

A few questions popped up as I was reading, as well. When you have the time.......

First, totally off base, but how do you change your handle? Mine says 'RisingStock---stranger. That bothers me for some reason.....

Click to expand...

The forum changes the title corresponding with the number of posts you have made. You had 15 posts as of this query. You are, effectively, a stranger to most of us with so few posts. As your post count increases, different, hopefully more appealing titles will be applied.

Anyway, back to the questions:
1) Why would you use a dehumidifier in winter? Doesn't the house heating tend to dry things out anyway?

Click to expand...

There is no heating in the area where my op is located, but then I don't live in a climate that ever gets freezing temps. My house doesn't have any permanent heating, either. Don't need it. My op has to cope with being in an unheated space, but most of the year, the air temp is about 20C. In deepest winter, it will get down to about 12C for a few days a year, almost never any cooler. Never gets much warmer than about 28C either, and again, for only a few days a year.

It is peak summer now, but winter is when I most need my dehumidifier. The only heat the room gets is from the lights (and the dehumidifier). That may or may not be enough to raise the room's air to the main exhaust thermostat setpoint. If the exhaust doesn't run because it is too cool, humidity will continue to rise in the grow airspace, to dangerous levels, above 70%, where powdery mildew and grey mould (bud rot) are almost a sure thing.

If your room will be served by forced air heating (and hopefully, cooling too), a dehumidifier is not needed. Keep in mind that if your grow op shares the airmass handled by central heating/cooling, your house will smell like a grow op unless you do some scent control, like a carbon filter for all air leaving the grow space.

2) For those wanting to add CO2, I read somewhere spraying your plants with plain soda water helps (releases trace amounts of CO2).....any thoughts on that?

Click to expand...

CO2 is only worth doing if done right. That means tank, regulator, CO2 measurement/control and a sealed room with exhaust blower controlled by the CO2 controller. Spraying soda water on a plant will be of dubious effect.

3) I know you wrote it somewhere, but when cloning you don't presently use anything but pH adjusted water and a cloning powder, correct? Can you recommend a good brand? Sorry if that's repetitive.

Click to expand...

Yep, that's pretty much the lot. H2O2, 50% grade @ 1ml/litre is useful in cube soaking and clone watering solutions. Prevents any pathogen growth and kills what's there already.

Any rooting powder with about 8g butyric acid per kg will do. Brands vary- just look for the butyric acid content.

4) Along those same lines, any thoughts on Superthrive or Vita Grow Anti-Wilt Concentrate? (for us clone-challenged)

Click to expand...

Some folks like Superthrive; I've used it in the past, but it is incredibly expensive and doesn't have much effect I can discern. The main ingredient is vitamin B, which is known to have some benefits to plants. I haven't used it in years and frankly don't miss it.

I have no need at all for anti-wilt agents. As long as your scalpel is sterile and you've used some anti-pathogen measures in your RW cube soaking soln (H2O2 50% @ 1ml/L), you should not see wilting. If you see wilt in established plants, there's been root damage or disease- and anti-wilt agents are not likely to solve the problem.

Keeping cubes too wet can encourage pythium or fusarium, which can cause the stem tip to rot. If the tip rots, the clone will not be able to draw water through it and the clone will wilt. All is not lost- you can recut the stem with a sterile blade, put it in a new cube which is kept only damp, never wet or saturated. Put it on a heat mat and it will root in 7-10 days.

Lastly, I'm starting straight from seeds, I have 10, all feminized.....planning on keeping 3 as Moms and going straight to flower with the other 7, do I still have to wait the 6-8 weeks for those 7 to be sexually ready before they can go into flower? Or is sooner OK?.....

Click to expand...

Feminised seeds are not a sure thing. You'll get about 80% female at best. All plants raised from beans will have to be grown to sexual maturity before you can even determine sex, much less flower them.

Thanks man, this is like the holy grail of threads......

Click to expand...

Great! Bring me a shrubbery- or I shall say NI to you!

By the way, what do cool tubes do? What the name suggests I'm guessing.....

Click to expand...

Cooltubes are an air cooling system for HID lights. Simply a 150mm dia Pyrex tube enveloping the HPS tube, with ducted air feed and exhaust. Cooltubes remove air heated by the lamp before it can get to the plants. Cooltubes make it much easier to control the temp & RH of the grow room airmass as the main exhaust blower does not have to remove heat from the lights.

Before installing my cooltubes, because I am running 2kW of light in a rather small 500 cu ft room air volume, the main exhaust blower ran almost all the time but room temp still would wander up to 27-29C, even with my intake air at 18-20C. After installing the cooltubes, my flowering area stays between 23-24C at all times, following the 23.5C main exhaust thermostat setting, even during lights on. Excessively high grow room temps lead to thin, weedy, 'stretchy' or 'runny' buds and lower overall yields.

southfloridasean said:

I think that mother plants may need three months to fully mature if Im not mistaken

Click to expand...

Plants will show preflowers at nodes in 6-8 weeks from seed under veg lighting. Once preflowers are apparent, the plant can be sexed, either by taking a cutting and flowering once rooted or by covering one branch of the plant for 12h/day
.

Thanks for setting me straight........especially concerning the Superthrive and digi ballast (someone had mentioned them and were never clearly contradicted, which I took as a silent approval) Anyway, that'll save me serious dinero.

I envy your winters---it's freezing here.

Anyway, in the very beginning stages of a SoG DWC, might start a photo journal to show y'all how it goes.

Then again, I'm a lazy stoner.

Cold sux, no thanks.

Found my ballast testing notes. I noted a power savings of 55W using an electronic ballast on a 600HPS vs a traditional magnetic- that's 9%, not 5% savings as I said previously.

If you are using a great number of ballasts, this could be a significant cost savings. Electronic ballasts also start the tube a bit more 'softly' meaning you'll get more starts per tube life. In horticultural applications, most tube makers recommend yearly relamping due to output degradation. You'll have no problem getting a magnetic to start a tube every day for a year.

If you're a town council maintaining a few thousand streetlights, you don't care so much about output degradation and can run an HPS tube for a few years. Citizens don't report somewhat dim streetlights, they report ones which have gone out or are cycling on/off when trying to strike an arc, as HPS tends to do at end of life. Softer starting in this application means you might get 4 years out of a tube instead of 3.

If you're running one or two ballasts and are deciding between a long lived, $90-120 magnetic ballast or a ~$250-350 electronic model, the time required to recover the price difference through the greater efficiency of the electronic ballast, at typical pwr co rates, is in excess of the roughly 5 year service life of the electronic ballast.

It's OK to be lazy, as long as you are attentively so. I'm vigorously slacking as we speak.

Al B. Fuct said:

As you see pictured here, thicker stemmed clones outperform thinner ones. Cuttings on the stack on the left are all 4mm and under, the ones on the right are 5.5mm and up. Of course they were all cut at the same time. Thicker stems make more roots faster, every time. You can make your cuttings as tall as you like; as long as the cutting can get sufficient water uptake through the stem, it will not wilt. No humidome required. If clones wilt, the scalpel wasn't sterile or the media is overwet and the stem tip is being blocked by pathogen activity. Recut the stem with a sterile scalpel, stick it in fresh media that has been dampened with a 1ml H2O2 per 1L water, corrected to pH 5.5-5.8, put it on a 30C heatmat and it will root in 7 days, 10 max. Overwet media will cause rooting probs for most new cloners. Think damp, never wet or saturated. A 40mm rockwool cube weighs 5g dry and 25-30g when damp. Heavier than that is too wet- insufficient air will slow rooting development.

Click to expand...

i love you

heh, glad something in that was useful to you, dm4x.

I'm pretty slow on the uptake with plants... I am not a naturally green-thumbed type person. I can't count how many batches of cuttings I killed before I finally sorted out the seemingly simple matter of keeping the media damp and not wet.

But here's what really annoys me- I can clone 30 cannabis plants with 100% success rate every 2 weeks but Al B Fuct if I can get other plants to root in rockwool. I have a Wollemi Pine and several grevilleas that I would LOVE to make copies of... but the cuttings just sit there and laugh at me for trying... then croak.

Al B. Fuct said:

... but the cuttings just sit there and laugh at me for trying... then croak.

Click to expand...

HAH...your gifts are focused.

Al b. can you please check this thread and give me a competent opinion

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/51072-new-op-all-variables-given.html

i need some help and a full competent answer form someone who knows could do me good. thank you, toke on..

Al B. Fuct said:

As you see pictured here, thicker stemmed clones outperform thinner ones. Cuttings on the stack on the left are all 4mm and under, the ones on the right are 5.5mm and up.

Click to expand...

5.5mm is a very precise measurement... i'd want some calipers to help take the guesswork out of it... a perfect cutting, every time!

I keep a plain ol set of vernier cowpliers.

I don't measure stems when doing cuttings, tho. I just start with the biggest stems on the mums and work my way down in sizes until I have 30 cubes filled.

cmak40 said:

Al b. can you please check this thread and give me a competent opinion

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/51072-new-op-all-variables-given.html

i need some help and a full competent answer form someone who knows could do me good. thank you, toke on..

Click to expand...

My opinion is that you're not likely to want to hear my opinion.

You want to do soil, you want organic, you want high production. Want fries with that, too?

There's nothing evil about 'chemical' hydroponic nutes- they're the same elements as from organics when they enter the plant's roots. Soil, however, is a pain in the arse. Heavy, messy, hard to dispose of, poor productivity compared to even flood hydro.

Rethink your grow space. Configure it for SoG, commit almost no space to mothers and clones, use the bulk of it for flowering. Think 50W/sq ft of HPS in flowering. Review this thread for notes on keeping mums and cutting clones.

Yes, it's a long read, but pretty much all you want to know is answered. Don't forget about the GrowFAQ- it is your friend.

great ideas man!

Al B. Fuct said:

My opinion is that you're not likely to want to hear my opinion.

You want to do soil, you want organic, you want high production. Want fries with that, too?

There's nothing evil about 'chemical' hydroponic nutes- they're the same elements as from organics when they enter the plant's roots. Soil, however, is a pain in the arse. Heavy, messy, hard to dispose of, poor productivity compared to even flood hydro.

Rethink your grow space. Configure it for SoG, commit almost no space to mothers and clones, use the bulk of it for flowering. Think 50W/sq ft of HPS in flowering. Review this thread for notes on keeping mums and cutting clones.

Yes, it's a long read, but pretty much all you want to know is answered. Don't forget about the GrowFAQ- it is your friend.

Click to expand...

LMAO!!! i send him over here to read and do his homework.....yet instead he asked you to do his reading/homework for him....


LOL!

LoudBlunts said:

LMAO!!! i send him over here to read and do his homework.....yet instead he asked you to do his reading/homework for him....


LOL!

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Cheaters come last in he class Well.......Some times LOL

LoudBlunts said:

LMAO!!! i send him over here to read and do his homework.....yet instead he asked you to do his reading/homework for him....

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*sigh*

yeah, saw that...

...guess he missed wot I said on page 50:

I don't mind discussing general concepts but I'd like to avoid designing other folks' ops from top to bottom or hand-holding them through a grow. It's just too taxing on my limited time. It's why I have PMs disabled. Remember, I'm a slacker and I'm running a very productive op. There's enough info on room construction and general theory of growing cannabis all over this board to get anyone through who can take the time to read the stuff. In terms of troubleshooting, there's folks on here who are much better at diagnosing stuff than I am, too. See potroast, he knows everything (please don't kill me pottie.... ).

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I guess there ARE lazier stoners than me out there!

actually i read the whole thread but some of my options i wanted to use werte different, and was not reccomended how ever i still wanted to do them my way and get some help. i do understand the thread and everything it says. i was hoping for help with my particular situation. some of my variables are far different then whats stated. thanks for the help anyway ill take what i can from this and move on.

Just another soil guy looking at going to a flood setup.

Was wondering if you could tell me how much nutes you go through in a typical month.

Been trying to gauge how much a Flood setup would cost me for feed compared to a soil grow.