GMOs, Non-GMOs, Dangerous Chemicals & Safe Chemicals

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Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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This recently happened and I think it is hilarious and great. A few dumb people seem to think that I am making GMOs because I talk about Intergenetic Hybrids, so I just thought I would explain what GMOs are.

This is Norman Borlaug,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug
he is the father of GMO research, but he did not start with GMO research. He started by using regular horticultural selective breeding and intergenetic hybrids to create things like Wheat with stronger stalks, allowing it to grow more grain per plant per season. But eventually they started splicing things together on the Genetic Level, which is GMOs and is a whole different thing.

Also, when someone says "Chemical" it does not mean "Dangerous". The Monsanto guy is trying to get people to ingest dangerous chemicals on regular food. But when I talk about Alexander Shulgin, and things related to DMT and LSD or new Smells being invented, there is literally no comparison. They are completely different things. And Water is a Chemical, water is H20, and if you add Oxygen to Water Molecules, you get H202, which is Hydrogen Peroxide. I am not suggesting anyone drink Hydrogen Peroxide, but I also would not suggest that H20 is dangerous, that would be stupid. Some Chemicals are safe, some aren't. And not every new plant and animal is a GMO.

THESE ARE GMOs
Here is an example of a GMO (Genetically Modified Organism) it is a pig that was born spliced with Jellyfish DNA. It's nose glows in the dark.




Those are GMOs, which are completely differnt from what I am doing.

THESE ARE NOT GMOs
What I do is completely natural, and involves breeding 2 things together that can breed, people think species means "can't breed' but usually it means "won't breed" but if you put them in the right conditions (such as no partner of the same species for a long time) sometimes you can get cross species animals and plants, such as the Liger and Tigon, or the Mule and Hennie.
 
hydroMD

hydroMD

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So what is the difference between selective breeding in wheat, and splitting haploids to inject traits...

Same process except one takes place in a greenhouse or test plot and calls for a full second test to grow to see if the genes took while the other can be tested in one grow cycle.

Im not for pigs that have glowing noses, or round up resistant corn... but it is a practice I believe holds some beneficial possibilities :)

Not trying to argue or be completely pro GMO. Just trying to add some conversation topics
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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hydroMD said:
So what is the difference between selective breeding in wheat, and splitting haploids to inject traits...

Same process except one takes place in a greenhouse or test plot and calls for a full second test to grow to see if the genes took while the other can be tested in one grow cycle.

Im not for pigs that have glowing noses, or round up resistant corn... but it is a practice I believe holds some beneficial possibilities :)

Not trying to argue or be completely pro GMO. Just trying to add some conversation topics
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Well the main fear with GMOs is the "Frankenfood" idea, that is the main meme that spread the fear of GMOs. The real problem with GMOs is that we are giving them DNA that doesn't belong there naturally thinking that we know what is going to happen and what won't happen, but that DNA could lead to traits that are extremely dangerous to humans. With intergenetic hybrids you are mixing 2 things that are already pretty similar and can't cause too much variation.

And then Monsanto goes around suing everyone if they end up accidentally getting a little pollen on their crops and growing half breed monsanto plants. So that is a whole other aspect that makes them shitty.

So I would say that not all GMOs are dangerous, but we don't know which ones will be, because once we add the DNA natural selection could end up giving them crazy traits that don't belong in our current environment on earth and could be scary.

Then there is the study where the Rats got cancer from GMO corn in a European country, and a lot of countries in Africa won't accept GMOs.
 
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hydroMD

hydroMD

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Finshaggy said:
Well the main fear with GMOs is the "Frankenfood" idea, that is the main meme that spread the fear of GMOs. The real problem with GMOs is that we are giving them DNA that doesn't belong there naturally thinking that we know what is going to happen and what won't happen, but that DNA could lead to traits that are extremely dangerous to humans. With intergenetic hybrids you are mixing 2 things that are already pretty similar and can't cause too much variation.

And then Monsanto goes around suing everyone if they end up accidentally getting a little pollen on their crops and growing half breed monsanto plants. So that is a whole other aspect that makes them shitty.

So I would say that not all GMOs are dangerous, but we don't know which ones will be, because once we add the DNA, natural selection could end up giving them crazy traits that don't belong in our current environment on earth and could be scary.

Then there is the study where the Rats got cancer from GMO corn in a European country, and a lot of countries in Africa won't accept GMOs.
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Nice dude, your the first person on this board I have asked this question to that hasn't flown off their bias wagon with 9 chapters of opinionated banter :)

I like your style.

A lot of gmo, especially being developed by universities, are using parent genes from the same species, which in my eyes is little difference than selective breeding, your just examining the genes in a dish to see if they will be present in offspring rather than growing it out completely to see if you have hetero or homozygous offspring.

I've worked with a universoty trying to developed a strain of barley that can handle the west coast's climate to cut shipping and royalty costs of the heritage strains grown in France and Germany. I think this is a good example of good practice.


Monsanto and everything they do can eat a giant metaphorical dick
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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hydroMD said:
Nice dude, your the first person on this board I have asked this question to that hasn't flown off their bias wagon with 9 chapters of opinionated banter :)

I like your style.

A lot of gmo, especially being developed by universities, are using parent genes from the same species, which in my eyes is little difference than selective breeding, your just examining the genes in a dish to see if they will be present in offspring rather than growing it out completely to see if you have hetero or homozygous offspring.

I've worked with a universoty trying to developed a strain of barley that can handle the west coast's climate to cut shipping and royalty costs of the heritage strains grown in France and Germany. I think this is a good example of good practice.


Monsanto and everything they do can eat a giant metaphorical dick
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So like Designer Babies, but with plants? That seems like a better idea than just mixing completely different species from genus and familes that don't even meet in real life.
 
hydroMD

hydroMD

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Finshaggy said:
So like Designer Babies, but with plants? That seems like a better idea than just mixing completely different species from genus and familes that don't even meet in real life.
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Basically.


All in all it is just selective breeding... but with strategies to save time :) Its cool stuff.


Every great advancement has the potential to do great things...

But if its truly a great advancement, there will be ways to use it for equally evil purposes..

Good example is splitting the atom. Can save or kill millions
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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A lot of what people think is GMOs is just artificially selected stuff. For example, if the Banana was bred into existence today from the little bean it used to be, people would call it a GMO but it wouldn't be. That is the kind of stuff I am trying to do.
 
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Finshaggy

Finshaggy

Well-Known Member
hydroMD said:
Basically.


All in all it is just selective breeding... but with strategies to save time :) Its cool stuff.


Every great advancement has the potential to do great things...

But if its truly a great advancement, there will be ways to use it for great evil..

Good example is splitting the atom. Can save or kill millions
Click to expand...
I think Craig Venter's idea makes the most sense. If we are going to make new bacteria and stuff that doesn't belong on Earth, we should make stuff fit for Mars and send it there to break down the rocks into soil, and start out putting Oxygen to create an atmosphere, etc. That is where we should send our alien inventions. The glow pigs and glow cats are cool, but we should use that level of GMO variation for Mars and maybe Moon stuff.
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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And I think the Designer Babies for food makes the most sense for Earth, the stuff you are doing is probably going to create the next generation of food.
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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hydroMD said:
Im the grower not the scientist :)


I think eating designer babies would fix a lot of hunger problems :)
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Either way, the stuff you were talking about is definitely where the next Banana type thing will come from. Like a Potato Peanut that is hypoallgergenic, lol.
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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hydroMD said:
Hahaha.. potatoe-peanut lol

What about poppiannabis? :)
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That would be cool. I don't know if you could bring an Opium gene out of a Cannabis plant though, Potatoes and Peanuts are both Tubers, so you could probably get some genetics out of it that would make it grow bigger, it's like a root tumor almost, but a beneficial one that stores nutrients.
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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I think that the Poppiannabis is the kind of stuff Monsanto does. It would be cool if they did stuff like that instead of making it Roundup resistant.
 
Finshaggy

Finshaggy

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I know everyone knows this, but I feel like everyone thinks this is a lot more difficult than it really is. Eggs become Chickens. Like, Eggs at the store.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_egg_oven





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_%28sheep%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blastocyst
Dolly the Sheep was cloned in 1996 and was born of a Surrogate mother. Before Dolly was cloned it was thought that when DNA chose the different between Bones or Skin or Muscles that there was such a complex process happening that we would never understand it, but once Dolly was born it showed that all it really takes is the introduction of cells, not necessarily a sperm or egg, just any cell. Some people have declared that Dolly breaks the laws of Nature, but she actually reveals the laws of nature to all of us. They tried 277 times, so if Dolly was a chemical she would be called Dolly-277, ie LSD-25.

The word "Clone" comes from the Greek word for "Twig". When you skin a plant you reveal the "Stem Cells", Stem Cells are also the cells that make up a fetus. Stem cells are the part that we thought "We would never understand", but it turns out that Stem Cells just happen to be able to turn in to anything, there is no complex code that says what will be what. It just kind of happens. For example, the exposed Stem Cells of a plant can become Roots, or they can become a Grafting, or they can have a smaller plant with exposed stem cells inserted in and that smaller plant will become a branch. And there are many species of Tree that will be cloned easily just by putting a stick in the ground. Any plant can be cloned by cutting, and it does not harm to the plant. This is the best way to spread a new plant in an area, so that they do not have to start from seed and risk the seedling stage.


There is even research that is going in to helping same sex couples reproduce via the Dolly method, but instead of adding 1 persons cells, they would add both.
http://www.academia.edu/1763101/Stem_Cell_Research_and_Same-Sex_Reproduction
I am not sure if anyone noticed in my Beer and Wine post, but Yeast breeds almost as if it is a male/female organism, but it is a bacteria. This is called "Horizontal Gene Transfer" and not only that, but yeast can create entirely new Chromosomes if given the right genomic material. Amino Acids I think is all it needs, I watched Craig Venter talk a while ago on TV and he said that it was so simple he didn't want to actually say what the genomic material was, but I am pretty sure it is amino acids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast_artificial_chromosome
 
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