Good options for N bump mid-flower for organic in SIP?

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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
So mid flower and I'm seeing some heavy yellowing settling in on one pheno of what I'm running and the other is showing the first signs/hints of it as well. I've done zero teas/top-dressing so far as it's very hard to do in current setup and trying my best to avoid.

What would be fast-release option that would also fade for flower - with being organic and things needing time to break down I'm uncertain of the best choices for this situation; I have multiple N sources on hand (alfalfa, neem, karanja, blood meal, feather meal) and would order/pickup something from NFTG the lineup if that is a good path being pre-digested and readily available and at least 'organic enough' for me.

I need to check the guides for def but I'm pretty certain it's N def I'm going to be chasing here so figure I'll pose the question all the same.
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Ideally something I could add to rez would be the preferred application method; Otherwise if I have to get the 'cap' off and do a top-dress I'll do it right and add my other goodies (i.e. some casting, some Bu's compost, fresh EM drench, etc). I also have some insect frass 2-2-2 on hand so I'm definitely considering that if I do end up top-dressing - need to confirm if there's any reason to -not- use it.
 
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PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
I have never heard of the SIP method until now, but it sounds pretty cool after looking it up. I'm still new to no-till and top dressing, but I would do some top dressing if it's not that big of a hassle. EWC alone are good, but you have some other good stuff you could add too. I've just started using frass, but you might want to go a little light with it. I don't have enough experience with it to give any good advice about using it. I'm interested to hear what the pro's say.
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Yes the SIP method is quite interesting for a passive setup which was my goal; No pumps water or air - far less chance of running dry if I need/want to stay out of town a couple days, etc. Everything I've done so far has been 'optional' other than the topping off with plain old RO water. I really should just let normal tap water sit out and use that for the Ca it contributes but my RO rez is easier so I just added Ca/Mg last few times. My soil itself should have ample Ca as it was amended.

I figure on the frass I'll definitely go light and hoping the SAR response will be of benefit as well from the chitin.
 
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Growitpondifarm

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
So mid flower and I'm seeing some heavy yellowing settling in on one pheno of what I'm running and the other is showing the first signs/hints of it as well. I've done zero teas/top-dressing so far as it's very hard to do in current setup and trying my best to avoid.

What would be fast-release option that would also fade for flower - with being organic and things needing time to break down I'm uncertain of the best choices for this situation; I have multiple N sources on hand (alfalfa, neem, karanja, blood meal, feather meal) and would order/pickup something from NFTG the lineup if that is a good path being pre-digested and readily available and at least 'organic enough' for me.

I need to check the guides for def but I'm pretty certain it's N def I'm going to be chasing here so figure I'll pose the question all the same.
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Fish emulsion is good like stated, the Alaska brand is 5-1-1. Also I typically use a small amount of blood meal with some compost when I need an N boost. Both good options
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
I've got some of that 5-1-1 on hand actually and was considering using it in a tea (castings + Bu's) - trying to remember if its fungal or bacterial focused tea you want for flowering; Need to do some homework but if not mistaken the fish emulsion is what you want for a fungal anyhow so that would serve both purposes. I'll also be using some malted barley along with the tea bag contents as part of my top dressing. Then I'll water in with the tea + activated EM and some Mammoth P I have a tad bit left of from last run. Outside of the castings and bus I figure I'll use the frass since it's a nice even 2-2-2 and all likely good use a small bump. May also evaluate if I'm seeing any P def here after reading a bit more as well.
 
MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
I've got some of that 5-1-1 on hand actually and was considering using it in a tea (castings + Bu's) - trying to remember if its fungal or bacterial focused tea you want for flowering; Need to do some homework but if not mistaken the fish emulsion is what you want for a fungal anyhow so that would serve both purposes. I'll also be using some malted barley along with the tea bag contents as part of my top dressing. Then I'll water in with the tea + activated EM and some Mammoth P I have a tad bit left of from last run. Outside of the castings and bus I figure I'll use the frass since it's a nice even 2-2-2 and all likely good use a small bump. May also evaluate if I'm seeing any P def here after reading a bit more as well.
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I wasn't sure if you used Bu's compost or not. What I learned from Hyroot was that you use bokashi to make a mycelium mat and then topdress with compost and barley. In the rez, you should be using EM1(or homemade) and some sort of JADAM or KNF product. Good Luck!!!
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
I ended up with a fish hydrolysate based tea with Bu's and some Kelp mixed in there; Then when I top-dressed I used malted barley (freshly ground) and some mykos/humics and just a tad bit of the frass. I used the tea as a major portion of the drench which included multiple NFTG goodies as well as fresh activated EM and fulvic. A little 'heavy' but I intended to only do this routine once as it was quite the hassle to get in there and work on things at the top for amending/drenching.

Hoping the barley makes a good fungal food and develops a nice mat to help with breaking the frass down and the tea hopefully gives immediate relief for the low N symptoms and some boost from the kelp.
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Happy to report I have massive fuzzy matting going on; Perhaps the thickest mat I've ever had. I've used the same castings/bus before but the fish and frass along with the tea drench was the 2 real variables here I think; That and -not- adding any molasses after reading debates on that topic and wanting to focus on a fungal tea. The original amending included barley and a tea drench so the barley wasn't new either.

I think from here it's 'set it and forget it' mode outside of topping off with water as needed and maybe a dash of EM a couple more times.

For someone that is looking for easy/low maintenance and doing it for hobby/closet grow (self supply - no need to push the output) I don't think I'll dick around with hydro again unless doing it for the sake of playing and doing hydro for hydro sake. From a 'get the job done, self supply' angle these SIP(s) are by far super easy as long as you work with a good soil up front and figure out that game. Any top-dressing/amending during the grow itself seems purely optional assuming you get enough of the right goodies in that initial mix.
 
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Growitpondifarm

Well-Known Member
I use a ton of fish hydrolysate in my veggie garden with great results. I’m hesitant to use too much of it in my indoor garden as my potting soil always tests high for sodium. Wonder if they make any fish emulsion products from freshwater fish byproducts ? I know you can buy fish meal using catfish from freshwater farms. Anyone have any idea ?
 
DocofRock

DocofRock

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
Happy to report I have massive fuzzy matting going on; Perhaps the thickest mat I've ever had. I've used the same castings/bus before but the fish and frass along with the tea drench was the 2 real variables here I think; That and -not- adding any molasses after reading debates on that topic and wanting to focus on a fungal tea. The original amending included barley and a tea drench so the barley wasn't new either.

I think from here it's 'set it and forget it' mode outside of topping off with water as needed and maybe a dash of EM a couple more times.

For someone that is looking for easy/low maintenance and doing it for hobby/closet grow (self supply - no need to push the output) I don't think I'll dick around with hydro again unless doing it for the sake of playing and doing hydro for hydro sake. From a 'get the job done, self supply' angle these SIP(s) are by far super easy as long as you work with a good soil up front and figure out that game. Any top-dressing/amending during the grow itself seems purely optional assuming you get enough of the right goodies in that initial mix.
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I love organic living soil because it’s so easy compared to having to prepare elaborate feedings. Don’t feel like adding any goodies? Straight RO water. Want to church it up? Aloe, yucca, coconut, buildabloom, topdress, etc. The microbes do all the work for me while I sit back and watch the show.
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
I'd definitely say SIPs are the lowest labor path I've found so far; If I went fully no-till with them it'd be even less work for round #2 and on... Just re-amend/top-dress and water the fresh goodies in with a good tea.

Biggest mistakes so far from my learning curve...

- Use a rolling dolly underneath! Mobility helps.
- Get that screen in place & veg/grow into it! Don't add later - start with it/grow into it.
- Make sure you have a 'shower cap' that you can easily work with! I did 1 run without and still worked but top 1/3 of soil was always bone dry.
- If you want to top-dress/use teas during the run make sure you can get to/easily remove the 'shower cap' --or-- include some type of apparatus to let you top-feed/water in the goodies (such as liquid nutes from the NFTG line)/ Next time I'll have my 'fill pipe' into the rez and then some type of drip manifold I can use without having to be removing the 'shower cap' to do things.

For me I think the watering practices (manual hand watering/lazy/neglected) before held my grows back more than anything & this SIP tech definitely helps on that front. If the SIP itself was set to auto-top from a rez then it's be as unattended/hands-off as you could hope for. Just gotta keep them topped with fresh water.

I'm not convinced yet, but one of the phenos is also frosting more than the other and appears to be finishing faster - not sure if I can attribute this to the use of barley in my mid-flower amending but I've read rumors of "finishing faster" due to barley. I'll be using it going forward for multiple benefits but I also think that's one key improvement this run. Couple more weeks to go before I call them done/ready but I'm closely watching how they mature this time.
 
MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
NewGrower2011 said:
I'd definitely say SIPs are the lowest labor path I've found so far; If I went fully no-till with them it'd be even less work for round #2 and on... Just re-amend/top-dress and water the fresh goodies in with a good tea.

Biggest mistakes so far from my learning curve...

- Use a rolling dolly underneath! Mobility helps.
- Get that screen in place & veg/grow into it! Don't add later - start with it/grow into it.
- Make sure you have a 'shower cap' that you can easily work with! I did 1 run without and still worked but top 1/3 of soil was always bone dry.
- If you want to top-dress/use teas during the run make sure you can get to/easily remove the 'shower cap' --or-- include some type of apparatus to let you top-feed/water in the goodies (such as liquid nutes from the NFTG line)/ Next time I'll have my 'fill pipe' into the rez and then some type of drip manifold I can use without having to be removing the 'shower cap' to do things.

For me I think the watering practices (manual hand watering/lazy/neglected) before held my grows back more than anything & this SIP tech definitely helps on that front. If the SIP itself was set to auto-top from a rez then it's be as unattended/hands-off as you could hope for. Just gotta keep them topped with fresh water.

I'm not convinced yet, but one of the phenos is also frosting more than the other and appears to be finishing faster - not sure if I can attribute this to the use of barley in my mid-flower amending but I've read rumors of "finishing faster" due to barley. I'll be using it going forward for multiple benefits but I also think that's one key improvement this run. Couple more weeks to go before I call them done/ready but I'm closely watching how they mature this time.
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Did you get back on track? I'm rooting for you lol... If you are excited about barley, you really should look into KNF(Dr. Cho) and JADAM(Dr. Cho's son). It's all about using plant enzymes, which is what you are getting from barley. Anyways, I'm trying to get on the same page as @hyroot because he has been spot on everytime that I talk to him. He was able to answer most of my hard questions and lead me in the right direction. I feel like I'm dropping the ball when I try to help people... Anyways, I just feel like you are so close to hyroot's methods already maybe missing some ferments.
 
R

Reefslinger

Active Member
NewGrower2011 said:
I'd definitely say SIPs are the lowest labor path I've found so far; If I went fully no-till with them it'd be even less work for round #2 and on... Just re-amend/top-dress and water the fresh goodies in with a good tea.

Biggest mistakes so far from my learning curve...

- Use a rolling dolly underneath! Mobility helps.
- Get that screen in place & veg/grow into it! Don't add later - start with it/grow into it.
- Make sure you have a 'shower cap' that you can easily work with! I did 1 run without and still worked but top 1/3 of soil was always bone dry.
- If you want to top-dress/use teas during the run make sure you can get to/easily remove the 'shower cap' --or-- include some type of apparatus to let you top-feed/water in the goodies (such as liquid nutes from the NFTG line)/ Next time I'll have my 'fill pipe' into the rez and then some type of drip manifold I can use without having to be removing the 'shower cap' to do things.

For me I think the watering practices (manual hand watering/lazy/neglected) before held my grows back more than anything & this SIP tech definitely helps on that front. If the SIP itself was set to auto-top from a rez then it's be as unattended/hands-off as you could hope for. Just gotta keep them topped with fresh water.

I'm not convinced yet, but one of the phenos is also frosting more than the other and appears to be finishing faster - not sure if I can attribute this to the use of barley in my mid-flower amending but I've read rumors of "finishing faster" due to barley. I'll be using it going forward for multiple benefits but I also think that's one key improvement this run. Couple more weeks to go before I call them done/ready but I'm closely watching how they mature this time.
Click to expand...
How’d u make out?
 
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