Grow More nutes

TedeBoy

TedeBoy

Well-Known Member
I am growing autoflowers in a 50/50 mix of Fox Farm Ocean Forest and Happy Frog with extra coarse perlite added in. They are starting to flower now at 25 days old.

I am using Grow More nutes.
In my line up I have:

Sea Grow16-16-16
Sea Grow 4-26-26
Hawaiian Bud 5-50-17
Jump Start Plant Tonic
Maxi-Cal 10-0-0
Sul-Po-Mag

I roughly follow this guide (actually the archived guide from a few months ago).
http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/guide-nutrients-for-cannabis.html

I'd like to get the most from these White Widow Autoflowers.
My last feeding bloom mix I mixed like this in 2.5 gallons of rainwater and ph to 6.5.

In grams:

1.7g 16-16-16
2g. 4-26-26
2g. 5-50-17
3.3g. Maxi-Cal
1.2g. Jump Start
3g. Su-Po-Mag

I guess I'd like to know if this is enough?
I'm trying to be careful with these autos to not burn them.

Any opinions?
This is only my second grow.
Thanks for any advice.

 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
I use Grow More Sea Grow and like it a lot. I noticed a smoother, richer taste compared to using GH 3-part. I documented how I use it here. It's pretty close to what @Hermitian does.

There were some threads about it a few months ago:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/grow-more-fertilizer.621368/

In that thread I posted what I basically use today. What's a little funny is that Hermitian tried to convince me to use potassium sulfate instead of Langbeinite. I tried to convince him Lang was better. He's using Lang and I'm using potassium sulfate. :shock:

I would encourage you to feed with enough volume for 20-30% runoff. I had problems with overfeeding, and salt buildup (lockout). Monitoring my runoff ppms helped me figure out where lockout occurs, how to balance strength and runoff to avoid buildup.

I'm sure you'll be happy with the results. I like Sea Grow because it's a blend of synthetic and organic. It seems to be the best of both worlds (immediacy of synthetic, gentle-to-the-soil of organic).
 
TedeBoy

TedeBoy

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
I use Grow More Sea Grow and like it a lot. I noticed a smoother, richer taste compared to using GH 3-part. I documented how I use it here. It's pretty close to what @Hermitian does.

There were some threads about it a few months ago:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/grow-more-fertilizer.621368/

In that thread I posted what I basically use today. What's a little funny is that Hermitian tried to convince me to use potassium sulfate instead of Langbeinite. I tried to convince him Lang was better. He's using Lang and I'm using potassium sulfate. :shock:

I would encourage you to feed with enough volume for 20-30% runoff. I had problems with overfeeding, and salt buildup (lockout). Monitoring my runoff ppms helped me figure out where lockout occurs, how to balance strength and runoff to avoid buildup.

I'm sure you'll be happy with the results. I like Sea Grow because it's a blend of synthetic and organic. It seems to be the best of both worlds (immediacy of synthetic, gentle-to-the-soil of organic).
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info!
Would you recommend just plain water every third watering to help maintain soil balance?
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
TedeBoy said:
Thanks for the info!
Would you recommend just plain water every third watering to help maintain soil balance?
Click to expand...
I don't see any reason to feed water only unless there's a reason to feed something organic like a tea which you'd want to keep separate from synthetic nutrients.

The only reason I've heard to alternate feed/water is to let the soil microbes recover from the synthetic nutrients. But, that seems like "robbing Peter to pay Paul." By definition you could spread the nutrients over that water-only feeding -- affecting the soil microbes less all the time instead of more followed by none.

The best thing to do is try it one way, then the other and see how your plants respond. Just be sure it's a fair test, spreading more dilute nutrients across all feedings vs. stronger/zero/stronger. (Better yet, learn about teas, "innoculants," and do that instead of water only. If water-only is to help the microbes, really help them.).

For now, I would keep it simple.

My biggest problem with Sea Grow was getting the strength correct and avoiding salt buildup. I was feeding double what I do now. I didn't get nute burn. But, the salts and organic content built up in the soil and I had massive acidity, lockout. The strength you're using should be ok. But, monitoring your runoff ppms is good insurance. I found 2500ppm is where it starts showing in the plant. I start feeding less, and/or for more runoff when I see it reach 2000ppm.
 
TedeBoy

TedeBoy

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
I don't see any reason to feed water only unless there's a reason to feed something organic like a tea which you'd want to keep separate from synthetic nutrients.

The only reason I've heard to alternate feed/water is to let the soil microbes recover from the synthetic nutrients. But, that seems like "robbing Peter to pay Paul." By definition you could spread the nutrients over that water-only feeding -- affecting the soil microbes less all the time instead of more followed by none.

The best thing to do is try it one way, then the other and see how your plants respond. Just be sure it's a fair test, spreading more dilute nutrients across all feedings vs. stronger/zero/stronger. (Better yet, learn about teas, "innoculants," and do that instead of water only. If water-only is to help the microbes, really help them.).

For now, I would keep it simple.

My biggest problem with Sea Grow was getting the strength correct and avoiding salt buildup. I was feeding double what I do now. I didn't get nute burn. But, the salts and organic content built up in the soil and I had massive acidity, lockout. The strength you're using should be ok. But, monitoring your runoff ppms is good insurance. I found 2500ppm is where it starts showing in the plant. I start feeding less, and/or for more runoff when I see it reach 2000ppm.
Click to expand...
I'll get a PPM meter today.
What is the ideal runoff reading and does the FF soil add to this reading?
Also, with say 50 ounces per water/feeding I should have 10-15 ounces of runoff? Last watering I gave them 48 ounces and I know I didn't get that much runoff. I'm in 3 gallon fabric pots if that matters.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
I haven't used FF soil. I don't like using soil with nutrients already in it (unless, of course, I was going to do a organic no-feed soil, where it's expected to give water all the time). It interferes with what you're trying to give it.

I don't try to reach an ideal runoff ppm. I just know that it starts around 600-800 in early veg, and reaches 1600 in early flower. 1800 by mid flower. I try to keep it there. The amounts I feed (and the runoff), it seems to stay there without me trying. I don't measure it much. Maybe once or twice per grow.

When I say 20-30% runoff I refer to the volume of the container the plant is growing in. I don't measure it, just eyeball it. Sometimes I don't get much runoff. The next time I water I will do 30-50%. After awhile you get a sense for it, like "reading your plants."
 
TedeBoy

TedeBoy

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
I haven't used FF soil. I don't like using soil with nutrients already in it (unless, of course, I was going to do a organic no-feed soil, where it's expected to give water all the time). It interferes with what you're trying to give it.

I don't try to reach an ideal runoff ppm. I just know that it starts around 600-800 in early veg, and reaches 1600 in early flower. 1800 by mid flower. I try to keep it there. The amounts I feed (and the runoff), it seems to stay there without me trying. I don't measure it much. Maybe once or twice per grow.

When I say 20-30% runoff I refer to the volume of the container the plant is growing in. I don't measure it, just eyeball it. Sometimes I don't get much runoff. The next time I water I will do 30-50%. After awhile you get a sense for it, like "reading your plants."
Click to expand...
My next grow will be soiless like coco and photos not autos.
Thanks again!
 
TedeBoy

TedeBoy

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
...

When I say 20-30% runoff I refer to the volume of the container the plant is growing in.
Click to expand...
Wow...that would be about 1/2 to 1 gallon.
I've never had that much runoff. In soil I'm wondering if I need that much runoff?
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Are those the thin plastic saucers? You may have already experienced this, but they crack quickly due to the way they flex, and are a brittle thin plastic. Makes a big mess.

I made deep-wall "saucers" using 5-gal Home Depot buckets. Mark 4-1/4" a from the bottom of the bucket (gives you 4" depth inside). Mark around the circumfrence, then use masking tape to "connect the dots" all the way around. This acts as a visual guide. Then use a hacksaw to go around the tape creating a slight groove. Just keep going around, cutting a little deeper each pass (if you try to cut too deep at once the blade wanders and you get a jagged "top").

A local fabric/upholstery shop sells rubber feet with a nail spike. I push 6 of those through the bottom of my #3 containers and that lets them stand above the runoff (I little). I've used short lag bolts from Ace Hardware too.

I wouldn't let the plant sit in deep runoff like that for long. But, it's better than those flimsy clear saucers. I use a bucket-head wet/dry vac (Home Depot or Lowes) to suck the runoff out.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
TedeBoy said:
Wow...that would be about 1/2 to 1 gallon.
I've never had that much runoff. In soil I'm wondering if I need that much runoff?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that the typical black, plastic containers don't really hold that much. What is called "3 gallon" is really a #3 "trade size." They call it 3 gallon as a "trade size." But, a Pennington #3 holds 2.32 gallons (up to the line which is 1/2" below the top).

You can find the strength of nutrient which won't accumulate as salt in the soil (without runoff). By doing runoff you don't have to be that perfect. And, you can give a fresher balance (rebalance) of what's in the soil. If the plant takes more N than PK, but you only feed strong enough so that zero runoff won't lead to salt buildup, by definition a different NPK ratio is developing in the soil (as leftover nutrients remain.).

I think of it as making the plant "finish your plate" versus wiping the plate clean and providing fresh portions each feeding.

The nutrients aren't expensive. I'm more concerned about wasting water.

Also, I notice you use Maxi-Cal. You might try not using it sometime (maybe just one plant). I don't think it's necessary in soil. I don't like using "calmag" because it acidifies the mix, requiring phing the mix (which I don't do). Things seem simpler without it. I use RO water, so I mix tap to get 150ppm starting water. With that, I don't see any reason to join the cult of calmag.
 
TedeBoy

TedeBoy

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
Also, I notice you use Maxi-Cal. You might try not using it sometime (maybe just one plant). I don't think it's necessary in soil. I don't like using "calmag" because it acidifies the mix, requiring phing the mix (which I don't do). Things seem simpler without it. I use RO water, so I mix tap to get 150ppm starting water. With that, I don't see any reason to join the cult of calmag.
Click to expand...
You are correct in that I need to pH the mix. I'll try not using it and see. The pure rainwater is about 7 and when I add nutes it drops to about 5.9. I pH-UP it to 6.5.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
TedeBoy said:
You are correct in that I need to pH the mix. I'll try not using it and see. The pure rainwater is about 7 and when I add nutes it drops to about 5.9. I pH-UP it to 6.5.
Click to expand...
If you amend your soil with dolomite, it should be safe not to ph, even if the solution is 6.0. My only concern is how much trace minerals exist in rainwater. I would mix tap to get 150ppm. Or, add a tiny amount of calcium acetate and epsom salt to get there (in a 2:1 ratio, which is 1g of each for 124ppm at a 2:1 ratio).

I would keep doing what you're doing. It's working. It's just something to try at some point.
 
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