Grow-Sil for silica, is it any good?

Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Chris Edward said:
@xtsho,
Normally I would totally agree with what you have to say, but I have seen so many positive results using silica.
Especially during summer time.
I can now grow pretty much anything I want all though the year and the silica helps the plants deal with the heat stress or low humidity or whatever the temp extremes here throw at them.
With silica, lettuce takes much longer to bolt in the summer, allowing me a perfect window to grow and harvest before the first flower stalks even begin to shoot up.
Prior to using silica, summer was a total shutdown period because what did grow would eventually get root rot or would be so infested by thrips that the plants would have to destroyed.

Like, I said, normally I would agree with you, but I have seen the results, so I know it works.
Click to expand...
WeedZen said:
If your using fresh soil each time then as Lordhooha said it would have enough already but you are correct about silica needed in soil especially if you reuse your soil or have a type of super soil because it will deplete over time. I can't give you much feed back on AgSil-16H but I do use Grotek Pro-silicate and really like the fact it's in liquid form and simple to use, less PITA factor. I don't think your going to see any difference in the two as silicate is silicate and the plant will utilize it if available.
Click to expand...
I use my own hand built soil's. These are all,organic.
I reuse almost all the soil I have. I have with this batch, some for over 5 years. A good portion of that used has been shifted to synthetic use.
All of my soils when reused, are recharged to what ever level of nutrient availability level I require. The synthetic use soil is simply recharged to base level (30 day feeding soil).

Mineral amending of used soils is done at a years worth of use. Hard rock dust and maybe a bit of gypsum is used for that.

I never re-amend for any added silica! You simply just don't have to. Available Si in soil is an ongoing thing..The natural actions of this plant in this soil, make amending soil with Si un-needed!

I have NEVER seen a Si def in any soil grown plant...... As an organic farmer, I can say that you don't plant in poor soils,,, Sand is one of them...

As far as Silica use in hydro.....You don't need to supplement Si for plants to grow! How ever, It can be a good choice.

The water you source from, does have a major role in if you should!
It has been said that water contains Si it's self. This is very true! Yet the type of Si in the water can be key.....Well water from around a hard wood forest has plenty of the good stuff. Yet when running an op from a home in a wooded subdivision. The water's ppm was to high to use.
Used a high a pressure boosted RO system to fix the ppm issue.

The young lady being taught how to run a hydro farm in the house.
Ran a cpl of run's with no added Si. Plants were light colored and thin stemmed.
I suggested he try an Si supplement.

The change was worth while but, I don't find it to have any value in soil growing.....

Unless you grow grains and grass's - Monocot's..... Soil grown Dicots do not need any Si amending nor does the soil as you use it!

Hydro doe's not need Si supplementing to actually grow our plants. I do feel it's a good choice to...In any pure water situation.......If you know what your doing. Si use does not increase quality or concentrations at harvest..... Remember that any increase in cellular structure, is an increase in cellulose fiber and that, is an increase in ash..

Unless you grow grass or grains,,,,,Silica use is way overblown!
 
W

WeedZen

Member
Dr. Who said:
I use my own hand built soil's. These are all,organic.
I reuse almost all the soil I have. I have with this batch, some for over 5 years. A good portion of that used has been shifted to synthetic use.
All of my soils when reused, are recharged to what ever level of nutrient availability level I require. The synthetic use soil is simply recharged to base level (30 day feeding soil).

Mineral amending of used soils is done at a years worth of use. Hard rock dust and maybe a bit of gypsum is used for that.

I never re-amend for any added silica! You simply just don't have to. Available Si in soil is an ongoing thing..The natural actions of this plant in this soil, make amending soil with Si un-needed!

I have NEVER seen a Si def in any soil grown plant...... As an organic farmer, I can say that you don't plant in poor soils,,, Sand is one of them...

As far as Silica use in hydro.....You don't need to supplement Si for plants to grow! How ever, It can be a good choice.

The water you source from, does have a major role in if you should!
It has been said that water contains Si it's self. This is very true! Yet the type of Si in the water can be key.....Well water from around a hard wood forest has plenty of the good stuff. Yet when running an op from a home in a wooded subdivision. The water's ppm was to high to use.
Used a high a pressure boosted RO system to fix the ppm issue.

The young lady being taught how to run a hydro farm in the house.
Ran a cpl of run's with no added Si. Plants were light colored and thin stemmed.
I suggested he try an Si supplement.

The change was worth while but, I don't find it to have any value in soil growing.....

Unless you grow grains and grass's - Monocot's..... Soil grown Dicots do not need any Si amending nor does the soil as you use it!

Hydro doe's not need Si supplementing to actually grow our plants. I do feel it's a good choice to...In any pure water situation.......If you know what your doing. Si use does not increase quality or concentrations at harvest..... Remember that any increase in cellular structure, is an increase in cellulose fiber and that, is an increase in ash..

Unless you grow grass or grains,,,,,Silica use is way overblown!
Click to expand...
Any studies I've found on silica kinda state the opposite of what your saying. It is beneficial in hydro and should be supplemented and soils will be depleted with heavy use. All living things utilize silica including people. True a plant in hydro will grow without it but the point being made here is it is beneficial to a healthier and over all stronger plant from disease pests heat stronger branches leaves etc but no where did I state it would increase potency but it will help with yield. You stated " Mineral amending of used soils is done at a years worth of use. Hard rock dust and maybe a bit of gypsum is used for that"
In the next breath you state "I never re-amend for any added silica!"
You actually are amending the soil with silica when using rock dust and gypsum, as both contain silicate
It may not be needed but it is very beneficial.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
WeedZen said:
Any studies I've found on silica kinda state the opposite of what your saying. It is beneficial in hydro and should be supplemented and soils will be depleted with heavy use. All living things utilize silica including people. True a plant in hydro will grow without it but the point being made here is it is beneficial to a healthier and over all stronger plant from disease pests heat stronger branches leaves etc but no where did I state it would increase potency but it will help with yield. You stated " Mineral amending of used soils is done at a years worth of use. Hard rock dust and maybe a bit of gypsum is used for that"
In the next breath you state "I never re-amend for any added silica!"
You actually are amending the soil with silica when using rock dust and gypsum, as both contain silicate
It may not be needed but it is very beneficial.
Click to expand...

I have to ask. What studies?

In every class that had lab work in college (Ag science, soil science, etc). Unless you were working monocots. There was no need for any Si amending - period. On a cpl of studies that included some basic tracking of fresh and dried plant Si content by volume. The amounts of increased Si (in the plant matter tested in soil grown dicot plants) were basically, minimal at best. It was found that in Rice production. The Si availability of the water it was grown in. Had a large influence on the Si found in the plant matter. In Asian countries that produce large amounts of Rice as the major staple. Dung (used as fertilizer) from animals and even humans, supply a majority of that available Si.

MY re-amending for mineral content is done for every other mineral. Any Si benefit from this is a bonus and not a need. ANY soil re-amending for mineral content. Is done at a year or more of actual use.
Peat breaks down as you grow, and this is added at times to hold the soil structure at needed levels. This also adds available Si to built and re-amended soils.

You see. Many studies quoted by Si supplement makers are paraphrasing and editing the study to suit their needs of selling a product. Just like FOX news reports their so - called "NEWS".

As far as increased resistance to insects and anything else they quote. The actual effects on Dicot plants is subjective..In soil grown plants! I'll state this line again. Soil grown (Dicot) plants get all the Si they can use, from the soil it's self. The increase in actual Si content in plants grown in soil and supplemented with Si.....Is minimal to very small amounts.

Actual testing of plant matter for Si amounts by volume (%), grown in soil amended with Si, changes very, very little. You can plainly draw from that, that soil give's the Dicot plant, all it can use from the soil.

There is another lesson to be drawn from. Confirmation Bias

When you look to find a difference between X&Y in any type of way. You have given the mind a task. Our magical mind will find one. Even if it does not exist.
This is true for all our sense's.

You want real studies? Try looking (searching) in Google scholar and basically, don't bother with anything you find outside of there that is hosted or used by a maker of a product for sale! Your basically being left-handed a bill of goods...

Even in Hydro grown MJ. I have personally worked with several nutrient lines that needed NO silica supplementation at all.....One of the best was a now being discontinued line from G&H. The Flora NOVA line......Thing is, the line was the dirtiest line I ever tried. Left your system pretty mucked up after the run. Once you dialed it in. I thought it was a fantastic hydro line as far as results. It needed no added Si at all.

The as yet unmentioned difficulty of Si use, is the reactions it has with other minerals and compounds. You can fuck up feed solutions real fast by making a simple error in the order it is added to feed solutions.....Large scale res tanks pose another mix problem. Savvy users know how to overcome these issues......I still wonder about effects on the ability of the soil (organic - living) to hold pH and other related issues from it. In soils that have Si build up's....
Even the resulting need to pH the solution. Tends to effect the plant over long term, or maybe I should say the soils ability to properly regulate it's own pH....

Anyway, I hope you get what I'm pointing out....

Peace
 
W

WeedZen

Member
Dr. Who said:
I have to ask. What studies?

In every class that had lab work in college (Ag science, soil science, etc). Unless you were working monocots. There was no need for any Si amending - period. On a cpl of studies that included some basic tracking of fresh and dried plant Si content by volume. The amounts of increased Si (in the plant matter tested in soil grown dicot plants) were basically, minimal at best. It was found that in Rice production. The Si availability of the water it was grown in. Had a large influence on the Si found in the plant matter. In Asian countries that produce large amounts of Rice as the major staple. Dung (used as fertilizer) from animals and even humans, supply a majority of that available Si.

MY re-amending for mineral content is done for every other mineral. Any Si benefit from this is a bonus and not a need. ANY soil re-amending for mineral content. Is done at a year or more of actual use.
Peat breaks down as you grow, and this is added at times to hold the soil structure at needed levels. This also adds available Si to built and re-amended soils.

You see. Many studies quoted by Si supplement makers are paraphrasing and editing the study to suit their needs of selling a product. Just like FOX news reports their so - called "NEWS".

As far as increased resistance to insects and anything else they quote. The actual effects on Dicot plants is subjective..In soil grown plants! I'll state this line again. Soil grown (Dicot) plants get all the Si they can use, from the soil it's self. The increase in actual Si content in plants grown in soil and supplemented with Si.....Is minimal to very small amounts.

Actual testing of plant matter for Si amounts by volume (%), grown in soil amended with Si, changes very, very little. You can plainly draw from that, that soil give's the Dicot plant, all it can use from the soil.

There is another lesson to be drawn from. Confirmation Bias

When you look to find a difference between X&Y in any type of way. You have given the mind a task. Our magical mind will find one. Even if it does not exist.
This is true for all our sense's.

You want real studies? Try looking (searching) in Google scholar and basically, don't bother with anything you find outside of there that is hosted or used by a maker of a product for sale! Your basically being left-handed a bill of goods...

Even in Hydro grown MJ. I have personally worked with several nutrient lines that needed NO silica supplementation at all.....One of the best was a now being discontinued line from G&H. The Flora NOVA line......Thing is, the line was the dirtiest line I ever tried. Left your system pretty mucked up after the run. Once you dialed it in. I thought it was a fantastic hydro line as far as results. It needed no added Si at all.

The as yet unmentioned difficulty of Si use, is the reactions it has with other minerals and compounds. You can fuck up feed solutions real fast by making a simple error in the order it is added to feed solutions.....Large scale res tanks pose another mix problem. Savvy users know how to overcome these issues......I still wonder about effects on the ability of the soil (organic - living) to hold pH and other related issues from it. In soils that have Si build up's....
Even the resulting need to pH the solution. Tends to effect the plant over long term, or maybe I should say the soils ability to properly regulate it's own pH....

Anyway, I hope you get what I'm pointing out....

Peace
Click to expand...
I guess we agree to disagree
 
radiant Rudy

radiant Rudy

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Regardless of growing media, silica is a waste of time. Don't worry about it.

Use the

Keep It Simple

Method

Guaranteed better grows.
Click to expand...
@Dr. Who @Chris Edward @WeedZen


OP, grow-sil now called recycle-sil is an excellent silica amendment. Its especially useful when K is already above optimal levels and possibly blocking calcium. A simple google scholar search on soil silica will reveal hundreds of peer reviewed articles detailing research that demonstrates the benefits of silica

TECHNICAL ARTICLE
A Review of Silicon in Soils and Plants and Its Role in US Agriculture
History and Future Perspectives

Riu has its share of stable geniuses who know more than the agronomists, Ph.D botanists and biochemists.
barrel_goat.jpg

Silicon (Si) is the second most abundant element in the earth’s crust and plays a number of important roles in the mineral nutrition of plants. In the past 20 years, the scientific documentation on the benefits of Si to crops has helped establish Si fertilization as an agronomic practice in many agricultural lands worldwide. However, very little information has been consolidated on the use of Si specifically for US agriculture. Consequently, the objectives of this review are to provide (1) information on the dynamics of Si in soil, use, and sources; (2) a history and up-to-date documentation on Si-related research in many areas of US production agriculture; and (3) perspectives on Si as a plant beneficial nutrient and the potential of Si fertilization as an agronomic practice in US crop production systems. The Si-driven mechanisms enhancing the productivity of a wide array of crops under stressed conditions are discussed in this review. Based on the recent 10-year average production level and published shoot Si content, the principal crops grown in the United States can collectively take up 9.55 million tons of Si annually, whereas the annual Si removal rate for the entire US cropland area is estimated at 21.1 million tons. On the basis of this projected annual Si removal rate, adoption of continuous intensive farming systems in the country, low solubility of soil Si, and complex chemical dynamics of Si in soil, increasing plant-available Si levels through fertilization is therefore foreseen a logical agronomic practice for US agriculture.
 
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