Gypsum anyone?

NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Yeah I was thinking in terms of using a drip to leach out some amount of calcium and sulfur everytime I water but hadn't thought about the interactions in your case with liquid nutrients in that water.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
Yeah I was thinking in terms of using a drip to leach out some amount of calcium and sulfur everytime I water but hadn't thought about the interactions in your case with liquid nutrients in that water.
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They're only coming apart with the help of your microherd which will help maintain a slow release.
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
They're only coming apart with the help of your microherd which will help maintain a slow release.
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Not with gypsum, you don't need biology to get the benefits. Gypsum is a more soluable form. Calcium Carbonate on the other hand is benefited by production of acids that some microorganisms make which breaks it down. I think that is what you are referring to.
 
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C

claypipe69

Well-Known Member
Gypsum in my understanding is used as a clay Breaker for heavy soils. Sulphur on the other hand is used lower PH in alkaline soils if used in high concentrations Will cause nutrient lockout by lowering PH to far. Just saying This information is readily available in any basic gardening book
 
Tupapa

Tupapa

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Gypsum is nowhere near as water soluble as either calcium nitrate or mag sulfate. That's a basic fact of chemistry. Clearly other processes are at work to make it available to the plants.

This is why I commented above that soul is chemically very different from hydroponics.
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That's what im been saying from the beginning, not attacking! Just trying to spread good info.,, I use gypsum but like i say i let it cook with my other amendments for a month at least to actually be available for the plant to uptake.
 
Tupapa

Tupapa

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
"Gypsum has calcium sulphate in the dihydrate form (two water molecules with each calcium sulphate) making it somewhat more soluble than the anhydrous form of calcium sulphate. A small amount of gypsum can dissolve at once in the soil solution (limit is 0.24 g per 100 mL of water at 20oC). Once the soil solution reaches the limit of calcium sulphate in solution, gypsum starts to precipitate again. Thus there is a fast provision of calcium and sulphate into soil solution for plant uptake or effect on the soil but the overall rate of release from gypsum is controlled by the rate with which the calcium and sulphate are taken or move from the soil solution.

As gypsum dissolves, one sulphate ion is released with each calcium ion. Since a sulphur atom is lighter than a calcium atom, the amount of sulphur released is around 75% of the amount of calcium by weight.

Calcium sulphate is much more soluble than calcium carbonate (lime) and over time will release calcium at a significantly faster rate than the weathering of lime. Time of release is variable depending on soil conditions including moisture level (dryer is slower), drainage (faster soil water velocity means more ability for the gypsum to dissolve as calcium moves downwards), soluble salt level (higher levels of some salts can make it slower), sodium level (higher sodium level makes it faster as the calcium goes on to the exchange sites allowing more gypsum to dissolve) and the general ability for the soil (and plants) to “absorb” calcium and sulphate from the soil solution."

That's the science explanation. Small amounts of gypsum becomes instantly soluble with water, its properties keep it all from becoming soluble, but everytime you get it moist, part of it becomes soluble. Over time (months to years) this soluble amount will increase...Giving even better results...But we're talking soil that's been grown in and is communicating with a rhizosphere, getting regular waterings with proper drainage. The super soil cooking method will not increase its availability properties.
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Not saying here that supersoil will increase availability., My point is that yes of course is water soluble, but minimal like 3%., but in order for the plant to uptake it it needs time to ''cook" ., Not like you apply your gypsum today and tomorrow the plant will be already uptaking it.
 
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NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Tupapa said:
Not saying here that supersoil will increase availability., My point is that yes of course is water soluble, but in order for the plant to uptake it it needs time to ''cook" ., Not like you apply your gypsum today and tomorrow the plant will be already uptaking it.
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Yes it is in a matter of days. What is cooking going to do? The calcium is available the sulfate will soon be available depending on your what its going to attach to and your pH, sodium, etc
I have given you so many sources here. Check them out.
 
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NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
claypipe69 said:
Gypsum in my understanding is used as a clay Breaker for heavy soils. Sulphur on the other hand is used lower PH in alkaline soils if used in high concentrations Will cause nutrient lockout by lowering PH to far. Just saying This information is readily available in any basic gardening book
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It is not elemental sulfur. It is calcium sulfate. It isnt used to drop pH under most conditions unless it is a sodic soil..
 
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Tupapa

Tupapa

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
From my understanding, a sulfur toxicity is almost unheard of.

"Toxicity
Sulfur toxicity for practical purposes should be considered as non-existent. Excessive applications most often result in a depression of soil pH and an increase of the problems that occur with the pH decrease. In fact, sulfur uptake is reduced as the pH of the soil decreases."
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Its REALLY RARE but exist, it can interfere with the uptake of other nutrients, it can actually"block" the intake of some nutrients, plus Leaf size will be reduced and overall growth will be stunted. Leaves yellowing or scorched at edges. Excess may cause early senescence.
 
Tupapa

Tupapa

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
Yes it is in a matter of days. What is cooking going to do? The calcium is available the sulfate will soon be available depending on your what its going to attach to and your pH, sodium, etc
I have given you so many sources here. Check them out.
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Gypsum is not a product that works instantly. It can take several months before you see any results. It does improve the structure of your soils by breaking up the clay particles causing the soil to become more friable.

You can still plant into the soil where you have applied the gypsum, but if you have heavy clay soils, you would want to give it time to work otherwise it is of no benefit to the plants you want to grow in that area


Read more..
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
Yes it is in a matter of days. What is cooking going to do? The calcium is available the sulfate will soon be available depending on your what its going to attach to and your pH, sodium, etc
I have given you so many sources here. Check them out.
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This is incorrect. Plants can only uptake nutrients in their soluble form.
 
Tupapa

Tupapa

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
Yes it is in a matter of days. What is cooking going to do? The calcium is available the sulfate will soon be available depending on your what its going to attach to and your pH, sodium, etc
I have given you so many sources here. Check them out.
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Reading stuff and actually comprehend and have experience doing it is two different things..
 
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