Heard an Interesting POV...

canndo

Well-Known Member
most solder for electronics and electrical stuff is too expensive to throw away because it contains silver. Most of it is also dense and would not float down a river but instead would sink to the bottom. The kind of solder used in the electronics industry isn't considered a pollutant since it is silver and tin, and both those metals, their oxides and salts having ever caused any kind of harm is nearly unknown. people ingest silver for its antimicrobial qualities and then wear the shit as jewelry all their lives. Find some other bandwagon to jump on other than solder. Perhaps the hippy gets into the Nuclear power field and starts dumping his nuclear waste in the neighbors backyard???? Now your argument might hold some water, because we all know how much people who hold the land and natural resources so dear to themselves really just want o be plluters and hire 18 month old babies to work in the salt mines 20 hours a day without bathroom breaks and no food or water. Happens all too often.
Fine, lead was the first thing to come to mind, we can use any one of a hundred different ones, what is the rocket fuel that is pluming into hundreds of wells in California and contaminating the lettuce which is being shipped all over the country? (before you start, yes, it was not private industry)
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Canndo, how many big bad US corporations do you think are out there? And how much do you think these corporations gross/profit?



The EPA has confirmed this and is doing nothing about it?

Wait a minute, you guys don't WANT an EPA. You guys figure that corporations and free enterprise and competition are grand substitutes for federal regulations.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
You are correct, regulations don't always work as intended, but compare a quake in haiti to one in San Francisco. the difference in damage was due to regulations (local I'll grant you). Tell the dead in BhoPal that their disaster was "singular".
So you trying to tell me that only the FEDERAL government could make a regulation for building construction and that the local or state government could not? I have no problem with the State of California stipulating earthquake resistant construction methods, but i would sure be worried if they also had to be applied to the state of Maine. That would only cause the houses being built in there to Cost people more for no discernible benefit.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Wait a minute, you guys don't WANT an EPA. You guys figure that corporations and free enterprise and competition are grand substitutes for federal regulations.
No, we feel the states or local governments can regulate these things, no need for a big mommy to be in charge of everyone everywhere.
 

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Fine, lead was the first thing to come to mind, we can use any one of a hundred different ones, what is the rocket fuel that is pluming into hundreds of wells in California and contaminating the lettuce which is being shipped all over the country? (before you start, yes, it was not private industry)
This is happening according to who? Why haven't I read this in my California Farm Bureau publication? Or anywhere else for that matter.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Fine, lead was the first thing to come to mind, we can use any one of a hundred different ones, what is the rocket fuel that is pluming into hundreds of wells in California and contaminating the lettuce which is being shipped all over the country? (before you start, yes, it was not private industry)
I am quite sure there are FEDERAL regulations that make pumping rocket fuel into the aquifer illegal, doesn't seem to stop the behavior though. Perhaps if the local or state government had some kind of jurisdiction it all could have been avoided? Tough to call, that federal government hardly ever makes mistakes eh?
 

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Wait a minute, you guys don't WANT an EPA. You guys figure that corporations and free enterprise and competition are grand substitutes for federal regulations.
You're the one telling me the EPA has confirmed toxic dumping and is doing nothing about it. WHy should I want the EPA...
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
So you trying to tell me that only the FEDERAL government could make a regulation for building construction and that the local or state government could not? I have no problem with the State of California stipulating earthquake resistant construction methods, but i would sure be worried if they also had to be applied to the state of Maine. That would only cause the houses being built in there to Cost people more for no discernible benefit.
I am speaking on the value of regulation in general. Those that claim that it is regulation that is stifling productivity and job creation do not stipulate federal regulation. It stands to reason that local regulation would, to their logic, be just as stifling. I agree that in cases of building and such local regulations make sense, federal ones do not. However, consider regulations on concrete and buidling materials, now consider that each state has its own, wouldn't 50 sets of regulations be far more inhibitory on a multi state manufacturer?
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
Arguing states rights to Progressives is futile, Drama. They're advocating the wholesale destruction of our freedom from a overbearing, tyrannical central government, for the sole purpose of forcing their neighbors to adopt their views on EVERYTHING. I want different states to be doing different things, that way I can move if I don't like what my state is doing. You can't escape stupidity if it's being enforced by the Federal government.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
I am quite sure there are FEDERAL regulations that make pumping rocket fuel into the aquifer illegal, doesn't seem to stop the behavior though. Perhaps if the local or state government had some kind of jurisdiction it all could have been avoided? Tough to call, that federal government hardly ever makes mistakes eh?

I was using this as an example of contamination, not as one of corporate abuse as I believe the companies were protected under federal law - that may go to bolser your argument, although I am not sure.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Arguing states rights to Progressives is futile, Drama. They're advocating the wholesale destruction of our freedom from a overbearing, tyrannical central government, for the sole purpose of forcing their neighbors to adopt their views on EVERYTHING. I want different states to be doing different things, that way I can move if I don't like what my state is doing. You can't escape stupidity if it's being enforced by the Federal government.
I am quite happy with states rights when states rights are adequate to the situation. Medical marijuana, assisted suicide, gun control (or lack of it), death penalty and more, all easy state's rights issues and all easily enforced by the state. But place a mulitnational corporation against RI for example or place a polution situation that involves several states in the discussion and I can't see this as an issue of state's rights so much as the rights of the individual against those of corporations. I believe we have the right to the commons and I state that there is more than once source of tyranny.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I am speaking on the value of regulation in general. Those that claim that it is regulation that is stifling productivity and job creation do not stipulate federal regulation. It stands to reason that local regulation would, to their logic, be just as stifling. I agree that in cases of building and such local regulations make sense, federal ones do not. However, consider regulations on concrete and buidling materials, now consider that each state has its own, wouldn't 50 sets of regulations be far more inhibitory on a multi state manufacturer?
no, most states would come to a consensus on things like that, kind of like how we have the Uniform Commercial Code. If a certain state wanted to have something totally different then they would invite a new company to begin to supply them with what was needed.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I am speaking on the value of regulation in general. Those that claim that it is regulation that is stifling productivity and job creation do not stipulate federal regulation. It stands to reason that local regulation would, to their logic, be just as stifling. I agree that in cases of building and such local regulations make sense, federal ones do not. However, consider regulations on concrete and buidling materials, now consider that each state has its own, wouldn't 50 sets of regulations be far more inhibitory on a multi state manufacturer?
While it may be misconstrued, most people are condemning FEDERAL regulations, but are actually in favor of STATES having much more control than they currently do.
 

Gastanker

Well-Known Member

Eh... Bringing up 1 incident of leaked fuel during cold war era rocket testing. Bravo another red herring.

What is your solution? When a company has X number of people the government just takes it away? Once a company earns a certain amount of money the government gets all the rest? What would we set these numbers at? How much should we kill incentive?

What about research? Should the government conduct it all? It's really expensive in some cases... How would we prioritize government research? Pretty sure the world doesn't need Viagra right? Or a playstation... Research on marijuana? Hahahaha.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
I am quite happy with states rights when states rights are adequate to the situation. Medical marijuana, assisted suicide, gun control (or lack of it), death penalty and more, all easy state's rights issues and all easily enforced by the state. But place a mulitnational corporation against RI for example or place a polution situation that involves several states in the discussion and I can't see this as an issue of state's rights so much as the rights of the individual against those of corporations. I believe we have the right to the commons and I state that there is more than once source of tyranny.
The government can and has bankrupted companies for less...

Why do you think the politicians in Washington are smarter than the politicians in the State legislatures? Why do you think they are smarter than you?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
no, most states would come to a consensus on things like that, kind of like how we have the Uniform Commercial Code. If a certain state wanted to have something totally different then they would invite a new company to begin to supply them with what was needed.

Then what happened to this testing ground for ideas that is supposed to be included in the individual state's "experiments" in governing? I can't see how anything would be more efficient if 50 states had to agree on anything. I also think it is fascinating that the right is so up in arms over California's clean air board limiting co emissions and demanding cleaner cars than other states if they are so for state's rights. Furthermore I don't understand why they don't think much of Oregon's assisted suicide law - seems to me they are for state's rights unless the state wants something they don't.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
While it may be misconstrued, most people are condemning FEDERAL regulations, but are actually in favor of STATES having much more control than they currently do.
Please explain then how local regulation would not stifle the local economy but Federal regulation would?
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
The government can and has bankrupted companies for less...

Why do you think the politicians in Washington are smarter than the politicians in the State legislatures? Why do you think they are smarter than you?

I'll wager that none, state or federal are smarter than we are.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Eh... Bringing up 1 incident of leaked fuel during cold war era rocket testing. Bravo another red herring.

What is your solution? When a company has X number of people the government just takes it away? Once a company earns a certain amount of money the government gets all the rest? What would we set these numbers at? How much should we kill incentive?

What about research? Should the government conduct it all? It's really expensive in some cases... How would we prioritize government research? Pretty sure the world doesn't need Viagra right? Or a playstation... Research on marijuana? Hahahaha.

Please read the article in its entirety Gas, it is far from a single incident.
 
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