HELLO WORLD! I need some expert advice on setup.

onemoretime

Member
Hello

I grew outdoors and had decent success. I plan on converting a space that is 4'4" l 3'3" w 6'3" ht. into a grow room. I have several questions I hope you can answer for me.

Do you think a 400 Watt HID system is sufficient or over kill?

I have 4" vent tube that I plan on exhausting fumes and heat; What fan size would you guys recommend?

Should I keep the fan running 24/ 7 to keep negative pressure in the area thus avoiding odor leaks? Should I invest in a fan controller? Please see next question below!

I have a furnace heater located by the room. Will the odor get sucked in and enter the living spaces when the furnace kicks on?

I want to set up a -carbon filter > air cooled sealed hood > fan > exhaust. Will odor enter through the sealed hood reflector thus bypassing the carbon filter?

What size carbon filter should I use?


Money is a little tight at the moment. Are CFL decent for veg or should I invest in a T-5 if so what sizes? I'm not going to bother about the LED at this time because I don't want to start war in here.

Thanks for your time! Even if you can answer only one of my questions, it helps a lot.
 

onemoretime

Member
Hello



I have 4" vent tube that I plan on exhausting fumes and heat; What fan size would you guys recommend?
I found one of my questions. I hope this helps someone else.


Calculating Fan Requirements for Your Indoor Garden
BY URBAN GARDEN MAGAZINE ⋅ APRIL 1, 2009 ⋅
We asked two experienced growers (Dan from Oregon and Fred from The Netherlands) to face off with their different opinions on how to calculate your fan requirements. Whose method do you think is best?

Dan’s Method – Calculating By Room Volume
You will find many calculations on the web for sizing a fan for ventilating indoor gardens; however, what many of these calculations fail to take into consideration is the friction loss on carbon filters and increased temperatures from HID lights. So here’s my calculation method, which you can use as a guide for sizing an exhaust fan for a growing area. Keep in mind that this calculation will give you the lowest required CFM (Cubic feet of air per minute) required to ventilate the indoor garden.

Step 1 – Room Volume
First the volume of the room needs to be calculated. To calculate, multiply length x width x height of growing area. For example: a room that is 8′ x 8′ x 8′ will have a volume of 512 cubic feet.

Step 2 – CFM Required
Your extraction fan should be able to adequately exchange the air in an indoor garden once every three minutes. Therefore, 512 cubic feet / 3 minutes = 171 CFM. This will be the absolute minimum CFM for exchanging the air in an indoor garden.

Step 3 – Additional factors
Unfortunately, the minimum CFM needed to ventilate a indoor garden is never quite that simple. Once the grower has calculated the minimum CFM required for their indoor garden the following additional factors need to be considered:

Number of HID lights: add 5% per air-cooled light or 10-15% per non-air cooled light.
CO2: add 5% for rooms with CO2 enrichment
Filters: if a carbon filter is to be used with the exhaust system then add 20%
Ambient temperature for hot climates (such as Southern California) add 25%; for hot and humid climates (such as Florida) add up to 40%.
An Example

In our 8’ x 8’ room we have 2 x 1000w air cooled lights, and we plan to use a carbon filter. We also plan to use CO2 in this room. The ambient temperature is 90 °F (32 °C), however, we will be using air from another room that is air-conditioned. Here’s the minimum required CFM to ventilate the room:

1) Calculate the CFM required for room (see above).
2) Add 10% (for 2 air cooled lights).
3) Add 5% of original CFM calculation (for CO2).
4) Add 20% of original CFM calculation for the carbon filter.
5) Air is coming from an air-conditioned room so no need to add any other percentages.
6) CFM = (171CFM) + (171CFM x 10%) + 
(171CFM x 5%) + (171CFM x 20%) + ( 0 )
= 231CFM.

This is the absolute minimum CFM required to ventilate your room.

The next step might seem to match the closest fan to this CFM. However, for this example I’d choose a six inch fan with a CFM of around 400 or more, and a 6 inch carbon filter to match. The extra CFMs may seem a bit excessive (calculations on most indoor gardening websites would recommend a 4” fan and a 4” carbon filter) but it’s always better to over-spec since we need to compensate for air resistance in ducting too.

Also, as we are using a carbon filter we will need to match the fan with the filter so that the fan that will neatly fit onto the filter.

Note: If all the variables are kept the same and we changed the room size from 8’ x 8’ to a 12’ x 12’, then the minimum required CFM would be 519 CFM.

The All-Important Inflow!
An intake port can be anything from a gap under the door to an open window – even a hole in the wall. The best place for an intake port is diagonally opposite from your exhaust fan; that way, air has to pass across the entire room – very efficient. You can put a piece of screen over the opening to keep insects and animals out, a piece of A/C filter to keep dust out, or a louvered shutter or backdraft damper that opens when the fan turns on and closes when it turns off. You can also use a motorized damper. This gets installed in-line with your ducting and is plugged into whatever device controls your exhaust fan. When your fan turns on, it allows air to pass. When your fan shuts off, it seals completely, preventing CO2, air, etc. from passing. You can get creative with these devices and use one fan to control two rooms, etc.

One additional note about intake ports: you will see much better results from your exhaust system if you install a second fan to create an active (as opposed to passive) intake system. Normally, when your exhaust fan sucks air out of your room, air is passively going to get sucked back into the room. By installing a second fan on the intake side, you will reduce the amount of negative pressure created in the indoor garden, thereby cutting down greatly on the amount of work the exhaust fan has to do and allowing much more air to pass through. If you’re not sure or you don’t want to spend the money, start out with just an exhaust fan. If it’s not performing as well as you thought it would, try adding an intake fan – you’ll smile when you see the difference!

Fred’s Method – Calculating By Wattage
Hello there. First off, I’m used to working with Celsius, not Fahrenheit, but I’ve done my best to provide formulas for both. My method for calculating fan requirements does not cover active cooling with air conditioning systems or cool-tube designs. We’re talking about everyday grow chambers here, totally enclosed for air-flow control, with no large amounts of radiant heat into or out of the box. Your mileage may vary some for these reasons.

Right then, let’s get started:

1) Start at the beginning and design this right! Before you even buy or cut anything for your new project, determine the highest temperature that your intake air will ever be when lights run. Call this T (inlet).

2) Use these formulas to determine the difference in temperature you can tolerate. 80 °F (27 °C) is just about the optimal for growing most plants. You can go up to 76 °F (30°C) if you have to, but aim for 80 °F (27 °C).

Tdiff = 27 °C – T (temperature of inlet air)

3) Add up wattage for all power sources in your indoor garden. Lights, pumps, heaters, humidifier, radio, coffee maker, whatever! Add it ALL up and call it Watts. If it is on for more than three minutes and uses more than a watt, add it up. This will make your number worst-case and therefore a conservative value.

4) Compute the absolute minimum fan power you will need using the following formulas. Fan power is measured in the amount of air (cubic feet) shifted per minute. The formula below is the minimum fan rating you must have to achieve your temperature goals. You will have to increase fan power to compensate for duct constriction, small inlets, carbon scrubbers, screens, or other items that block airflow.

CFM = 1.75 x Watts / Tdiff (in Celsius)

If you prefer to work in Fahrenheit, try this formula:

CFM = 3 x Watts / Tdiff (in Fahrenheit)

5) Get at least this fan power or don’t come and ask questions! If you are going to have more than one fan, they should be mounted side-by-side rather than inline if you want to add their different CFM ratings. For inline fans, use the lowest air-flow rating of all fans in the path. A fan on the inlet and a fan on the exhaust of the box are considered inline fans. Fans just circulating air inside the indoor garden should not be counted for airflow but must be included in your initial wattage calculations.

Ok, to see these formulas in action we’re going to have to do a little number crunching:

An Example

Ok, let’s say you have 2000 watts in a 8 foot by 8 foot room with an 8 foot ceiling height.

So what amount of air do I need to move to keep the room at 82°F (28°C)? My incoming air temperatures are 68°F (20°C) during the lights on period.

Tdiff = 28 – 20 = 8°C

For Celsius the formula comes out at:

CFM = 1.75 x 2000 / 8 = 438 CFM

For Fahrenheit we get the following:

Tdiff = 82 – 68 = 14°F

CFM = 3 x 2000 / 14 = 429 CFM

Here’s a quick look-up chart to show some further examples:

Watts
CFM
Tdiff (Fahrenheit)
70 16 13
150 9 28
150 54 32
150 75 6
250 150 5
250 188 4
400 60 20
400 133 9
400 240 5
600 120 15
600 225 8
1000 15 189*
1000 142 21
1000 250 12
Remember, Tdiff shows how much your temperatures will rise above your inflow air temperature for a given wattage and air movement.

* Just a humorous example. 1000 watts of light with a PC computer fan (15 CFM) – temperatures rise 189°F according to this formula!

If you are adding any carbon scrubbers or extensive ductwork, this is where you add to the fan size to account for air pressure losses. You have to move this many CFM, or the numbers don’t come out right. Exactly how much these items diminish your airflow depends on your exact configuration and is beyond the scope of this introductory article!

What to do when your outside temperatures are higher than your maximum allowed indoor garden temperatures:

You have a few choices:

1) Stop growing for a while ’til things cool off, or try running your grow lamps at night when inlet air will be cooler.

2) Reduce your lighting to drop the heat load. Not good if the incoming air is already over critical when it arrives in the box. Might be possible if the inlet air temperature is lower but you are running too many lights to keep up with the cooling.

3) Use active air conditioning.
 

riddleme

Well-Known Member
thanks for the invite, the only thing I can help you with here is to tell you to have the fans running 24/7 as fresh air is very important

other than that you will have to get answers from folks that use carbon scrubbers and such as I don't, I only grow strains that don't stink and I prefer an open garden
 

onemoretime

Member
Hi :)...Welcome to RiU :)

I just woke up ..so my brain has not yet switched on.. makes typing tricky :) .... But have alook at this ... It's a CMF Calculator .. Pretty handy and easy to use :)

I will maybe try and answer more when im awake :)

http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/CFM.html << Click
Thanks, Do you know if 4" ventilation duct is enough for exhaust a 400 watt hid? 4" seems to be my only option for the current space I plan to use.
 

riddleme

Well-Known Member
Ill check into that. Sounds like a great option if the medicine can alleviate my pain in the same way. Thanks.
I mostly grow Northern Lights strains, my current grow is Northern Lights #1, my last grow was Northern Lights Special, both have won cups
 

eyeballsaul

Well-Known Member
hey 400w hid will be fine u just need to keep an eye on the plants for signs of heat stress, if they show signs of heat stress just move it a bit higher. If you buy a
hermometer hygrometer for about £5 you can just keep that in grow room n you will b able to c if you need stronger fans due to heat and humidity.
 

Vento

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Do you know if 4" ventilation duct is enough for exhaust a 400 watt hid? 4" seems to be my only option for the current space I plan to use.
If its your only option then yes .... Bigger is better in the world of air movment , I was intending to use a 4" set up for my space ( only small ) But after talking to a friend , He recomended i go slighty bigger than i need ... thus giving me the option to add a speed controller ( I used a standard dimmer switch ) to my fan so i could turn it up and down according to need .... what swung it for me was ... a small fan would need to run full on to suck out all the air ( so in effect ..more noise and in a small part more juice needed ..more expence ) but going bigger means i can turn it down so less noise and a reduced bill ..... I just seen it as logic at the time and went for 6" ...its not come into play yet as im still in veg cycle ... But from tests i have run ..it does the job really well and with my fan being mounted in the loft .... its more or less silent .

How effective the 4" will be ...i have no idea ... But that calculator should tell you a bit more if you calculate your room size .

Hope this helped a bit :)
 

onemoretime

Member
If its your only option then yes .... Bigger is better in the world of air movment , I was intending to use a 4" set up for my space ( only small ) But after talking to a friend , He recomended i go slighty bigger than i need ... thus giving me the option to add a speed controller ( I used a standard dimmer switch ) to my fan so i could turn it up and down according to need .... what swung it for me was ... a small fan would need to run full on to suck out all the air ( so in effect ..more noise and in a small part more juice needed ..more expence ) but going bigger means i can turn it down so less noise and a reduced bill ..... I just seen it as logic at the time and went for 6" ...its not come into play yet as im still in veg cycle ... But from tests i have run ..it does the job really well and with my fan being mounted in the loft .... its more or less silent .

How effective the 4" will be ...i have no idea ... But that calculator should tell you a bit more if you calculate your room size .

Hope this helped a bit :)


Thanks Vento

I was also thinking of using a bigger fan and getting a speed controller.It makes sense to get a get a bigger fan as long as I'm able to control the speed. I have a furnace right next to the room and my girl hates the smell. The last thing I want to hear is her yapping. I figured by using a speed controller and turning it down during lights off period will prevent the odor from escaping into the furnace located next to the grow room and through out the house.


Will a 6" fan to 4" exhaust duct be a problem? I'm assuming if I max out the fan a wind tunnel noise will occur. Seems like for every question I have answered, several more pop up!
 

Vento

Well-Known Member
Thanks Vento

I was also thinking of using a bigger fan and getting a speed controller.It makes sense to get a get a bigger fan as long as I'm able to control the speed. I have a furnace right next to the room and my girl hates the smell. The last thing I want to hear is her yapping. I figured by using a speed controller and turning it down during lights off period will prevent the odor from escaping into the furnace located next to the grow room and through out the house.


Will a 6" fan to 4" exhaust duct be a problem? I'm assuming if I max out the fan a wind tunnel noise will occur. Seems like for every question I have answered, several more pop up!
Your welcome man :)

I'm not sure but i think you can get a 6" to a 4" Reducer ... i would need to look that up ! :) As far as a wind tunnel noise .... i hvae a feeling you might get some drag .... you get a slight one with matching duct and fan .... How much more it would be ... i can't say , But i guess if you have a controller ... and you never herd what the matching duct and fan sounded like ... you would think 4 " sound was fine ? lol ... i dunno :)

If your only option is 4 " duct .... and you see the logic behind the bigger fan and the controler .... i doubt you will notice the drag too much :)

Oh ..and the questions ... lol .... It gets worse ... Just Think em up ... and ask :) ! :)

V :peace:
 
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