Help Plz! 1st Grow - something not right! :(

5GreenDice

New Member
Hi People. So I'm struggling to analyse what's going on, something is definitely not right!! Please help, this is my first grow and the web can be misleading!

Below is the setup and hopefully relevant info. (I use metric systems generally but I'll try to include both for convenience)

Indoor Grow: 2x Tents - Each 2.4m x 1.2m / 4' x 8'
Current timeline: Veg, WEEK 4 / Day 28
Light Schedule: Off 11h30, On 17h30 (18/6)
Genetics: 57 x Cheese Clones (Originally 64 but 7 died when they were crushed by a falling fan)

Temps (min/max): 22-30 C / 72-86 F (outdoor temperature 20-31 C / 68-88 F)
Humidity (min/max): 40-55%
Lights: Heliospectra E601C's LED's (Spectrum: 450 nm + 660 nm + 735 nm + 5700K white)
Medium: 60:40 Coco : Perlite (bottom 2.5cm / 1" is clay pebbles/hydroton, also added some on top to prevent fungus gnats)
Feeding: Green House Powder Feed (N-P-K-Mg: 24+6+12+(1.2)) .....have also been using additional Epsom Salts
Water: Tap - EC 0.15, pH 8.0. Once treated - EC 1.50, pH 5.8
Measurement Devices: HM Digital pH Tester / HM Digital EC Tester
Location: Southern Africa (hence brand named nutrients or possible 'off-the-shelf' products are NOT available here!) :wall:

Okay so where to start...a timeline I guess:

ACTIVITY

D00, 28/11/16 - Rooted clones rcvd. (in rockwool). Re-pottted (10cm Diameter) to 60:40 Coco : Perlite - EC 0.600, pH 5.7
D02, 30/11/16 - Drink. EC 0.875 / pH 5.6
D03, 01/12/16 - Coco rinsed and set to EC 0.875 / pH 5.6. Re-potted into small pots (12.5cm Square)
D05, 03/12/16 - Drink EC 0.891 / pH 6.0
D09, 07/12/16 - Drink EC 0.982 / pH 5.6. Temp Min/Max 23-29C / 73.4-84.2F
D14, 12/12/16 - Drink EC 1.240 / pH 5.5. Temp Min/Max 22-27C / 71.6-80.6F
D17, 15/12/16 - Drink EC 1.240 / pH 5.6. Temp Min/Max 22-27C / 71.6-80.6F
D20, 18/12/16 - Drink EC 1.450 / pH 5.6. Temp Min/Max 25-30C / 77.0-86.0F
D22, 20/12/16 - Re-potted into large pots (30cm Diameter). Drink EC 1.610 / pH 5.7. Temp Min/Max 23-27C / 73.4-80.6F. Better looking plants put together in Tent #2.
D26, 24/12/16 - Moved light height from 1 metre above canopy to 50cm above canopy (as per manufacturers instruction)
D27, 25/12/16 - Drink EC 2.500 / pH 6.0. Temp Min/Max 22-27C / 71.6-80.6F (fully flushed until 50% run-off)

OBSERVATIONS

D02, 30/11/16 - Plants are a very light lime green colour. Some look very weak (maybe 25%)
D08, 06/12/16 - Plants all have very red/purple petioles and stems. Unsure if normal, web indicates possible Mg deficiency ...or simply strain.
D16, 14/12/16 - One plant had 4 spider mites on it. Treated all plants with some garlic + canola treatment. Spider mites gone and have not re-emerged.
D17, 15/12/16 - Fan fell over. Destroyed 7 plants. Down to 57.
D20, 18/12/16 - No spider mites anywhere.....however a lot of plants are exhibiting yellow lower fan leaf (generally 1 each affecting 50% of plants). Advised this could be N deficiency so upped nutes slightly.
D22, 20/12/16 - Same issues with some yellow lower fan leaves and also some plants exhibiting extremely slow growth compared to others. Foliar fed at slightly lower nutrient level. Also used some Epsom Salts in case of possible Mg deficiency.
D23, 21/12/16 - No change to poor performers each with 1 yellow lower leaf (some now have 2). Affecting 50% of plants.
D26, 24/12/16 - Tent #1, noticed 4 fungus gnats. Treated every plant in the tent with some biological insecticide (as per instructions on bottle)
D27, 25/12/16 - Over 50% now suffering from yellow bottom fan leaf issue. Slow growth on 60% of the plants. Some are getting huge, some are super feeble. Full flush given - 2 litres (half a gallon) through each pot. Accumulative EC this time: Tap Water @ 160, Epsom Salts @ 840, Nutrients @ 1.500. Total EC @ 2.50.

Numerous plants are still exhibiting poor growth with small leaves. Yellow bottom leaf or two seems more widespread, now affecting maybe 75% of plants. There are still however a few monsters in there and every plant has had the same treatment. Based on the nutrients I've given, I can only think I have lock out of either Mg or Nitrogen -...or there is a problem with roots. Every time I check run-off, it sits at around pH 6.2-6.4. Unfortunately the web has a number of people who genuinely know their stuff, coupled with a ton of people who know just enough to be dangerous (which is still more than me!). I'm confused and in need of help for these girls!! :cry::cry::cry:

Other environmental factors:

- Slight positive pressure in tent. Fresh air being pulled in from outside and ducted to base of each tent. Exhaust is by means of connected lights (ducted together) both with their own fans sending heat out of the tent.
Tap water is being mixed at 20C (68F) and left for 24 hours in my 160L nutes tank. Two air stones running in it for two hours before I mix up a batch of nutes.
Light timing is on at 1730, off at 1130 (so as to avoid hottest part of the day)
Everything is kept very clean.

I've attached an assortment of images, each file I've named so they're hopefully a little clearer. Please help :?

(Okay, apparently I can only attached 10 files. I'll add the others next - sorry)
 

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5GreenDice

New Member
...just adding the extra images - TIA ladies and gents...(sorry images are in a bit of a mangled order)
 

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bobtokes

Well-Known Member
you need to vary your PH between 5.8 - 6.3 a couple of times a week or you will lock out MG
your plants also look over watered and or overfed (too much N) hard to tell under that purple light
just noticed your feeding them at an EC of 2.5, at that stage of growth i dont go over 1.5 EC
 
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5GreenDice

New Member
Sorry people; apologies for purple pictures but thanks for coming back to me! Please find attached images in regular light.

- Spider Mites have not been seen since. There were only four or five that I found on a single plant but I blasted all 57 plants with some Margaret Roberts Organic Insecticide. I stank like garlic for hours but it seems to have worked.
- Vary the pH - yes I will definitely go all the way up to 6.3 for future feeds and vary accordingly. I did look at some chart about pH and Nutrient Uptake, I thought I would be okay. Thanks.

Images from tent 1 on this reply, images from tent 2 on the next. All were started at the same time, I just sorted the better ones at the last re-pot into different tents for hopeful canopy uniformity.
 

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5GreenDice

New Member
Images from Tent 2 (generally a lot better but still not all great!)

- So the EC of 2.5 was a bit of a trial. I thought things looked deficient in Magnesium....and I thought I must be doing the EC wrong....so I took the EC reading out of the tap as 0.16, added Epsom Salts as per these forums (which took my overall EC to exactly 1.0), then i thought I still need to add nutes...and the packet says I should do 1.5 EC.....so I thought fine, I'll add 1.5 EC worth of nutes....hence final EC was 2.5....schoolboy error? :oops::oops::oops:

Many thanks for taking the time to have a look into my somewhat bungled attempt at proper gardening :spew::leaf:
 

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bobtokes

Well-Known Member
when you give your plants MG ph on the high side you can also folia feed the mg, we all make schoolboy errors the trick is not to make them twice lol
 

Alwayslearnin

Well-Known Member
Wow, thats all info from your very first grow? wholy moly!!
Im also on my first grow my set up is simple by comparison. I have 3 hps 1000watt 3 can fans 2 6" intakes with filters and 1 8" out take with a 24"charcoal filter. 3 osilating fans a humidifier and air purifier. Using a small propane heater running during the light 12 for co2 (only pilot is on) and only run purifier during the dark 12. thats about it. My rh depends on whats going on in the room as far as whats happening with the girls, same with the heat. Right now im fighting pm so the heat was up to 82f while i dropped the rh down to 20% to be sure the potassium bicarbonate solution has a chance to dry out of the buds after about 8 hours at that ill be bringing it back to 72f during the light and 62f during the dark and ill bring my rh back to 35%to 40% till the last couple weeks then ill drop the rh to 25% and my temps i will drop roughly 8-10 degrees to allow the buds to tighten and start ti over produce resin.
thats the plan anyway here they are beginning week 5
 

CaliSmokes

Well-Known Member
You're doing way too much for a first grow, you need to take a step back and just let the plants grow. You are over thinking this, that's a ton of info and plants to try and control/calculate.
 

5GreenDice

New Member
Understood Mr. CaliSmokes however it's a little late now :D

Someone has privately asked if I have root aphids. I have checked for these but am not 100% sure of the signs. I HAVE however noticed a small handful of what I believe to be fungus gnats.

- What's the best way to spot and/or identify the difference between fungus gnats and root aphids? (I read that one is a small problem, the other is a monster problem)
- When I treat for either of the above, can I add treatment to my nutes so as to feed and eradicate at the same time?
- No other thoughts on the yellowing and/or slow growth on 50% of the plants?
- BobTokes, I will definitely try an Mg foliar feed at a higher pH. Thanks for that.
 

5GreenDice

New Member
Okay, thanks anyway gents. I took some plants apart - I do not have root aphids, I do not have root rot, I do not have spider mites. I have a small handful of fungus gnats. I also have incredibly slow root growth in 50% of the pots.....because all of those pots are too wet.

.....I had someone trustworthy over today and it's simply a case of over-watered (+ over-fed as I falsely diagnosed initially). I weighed each and every pot - ALL the poor performers weigh in at 4.5 - 4.7kgs / 10lbs (last watered Xmas morning). All the top performers weigh substantially less. The best visible plants weighed in at between 2.6kgs / 5.75lbs to 3.4kgs / 7.50lbs.

Unsure why SO many people say 'you cannot over-water coco' or 'water every other day' or '5 times a day' or whatever. This is terrible advice in my rookie opinion. Anyhow, I'm looking forward to the poor performers catching up, fingers crossed!!

If anyone has advice on how to dry out my other 4.7kg / 10.4lb pots more quickly I'd be really grateful. I need those roots to start hunting!!! Big thanks and shout out to those who tried to help.
 
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