Help with coco nutes

Screaming trees said:

Is this not ironic man, lol. People need some help in the coco man. They need a dam good start. We can definitely learn something from one another. When I get done working tonight I'm gonna lay down my Coco Regiment.

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Yes. I thought it was quite ironic. I think coco seems daunting because there is stuff that says "coco" on it. When now I don't believe there is one bit of difference. But I started out with the canna coco and loved it. Just not the price. I think anything will work, it's just getting it dialed in. For me my biggest issue in the beginning was PH. I had a POS test kit that wasn't accurate enough for the narrower PH range coco requires. I had lockout problems. Then I bought an ecotestr, then upgraded to a Blue Lab. Now the ecotestr is backup. My Blue Lab did go tits up this year, but thankfully my grow store took care of it and just swapped it out. Even though I didn't buy it there. Bad Ass!!

That's awesome. Definitely going the route of the mbfert.com stuff. 2 gallons for 100 bucks... That's more reasonable

Todd Dillinger said:

Be running 10 plants veg and 10 plants bloom. He said I would water every other day at a gallon per plant. Seems like an awful lot of water to me. But then again I'm pretty oblivious to this deal

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That dickhead salesman either has absolutely no clue what he's talking about, or he's lying through his teeth. Either way, he's completely full of shit. I'm running a coco SOG with 26 plants right now, with an ebb and flow system, and those 26 plants use anywhere from 2 gallons to maybe 3 gallons per day - all of them together. According to his fantasy math, I should be using 13 gallons of water a day. Jesus, even if you stuck your plants in pails of water instead of pots of coco, you still wouldn't use that much water.

I use Canna nutes myself, and I'm really happy with them. You're right, they have a high price tag, but one of the things I like about 'em is that I only use 1/4 to 1/3 recommended strength. If I followed Canna's feed chart, I'd have to cut a hole in the roof of my house because the damned stuff is so potent. Roughly 300 PPM of Canna is all I need, on top of the natural minerals in my tap water and whatever magnesium supplement I may be using.

You also don't need the full nute line. I just use Canna A and Canna B. I have some PK 13/14, but seldom use it because it has a tendency to bind with PH down and the calcium in my tap water to precipitate into calcium phosphate in my reservoir during flower. I use M.O.A.B. for a bloom booster. You can skip the Cannazyme, too - for a zyme, I just use Hygrozyme, which isn't cheap either but can be gotten a lot more cheaply than Cannazyme.

I don't know what kind of quantities you were buying, but even if you were buying it by the gallon that dude screwed you because you just do not need all that shit - and if you were buying it by the gallon, it would sure as hell last a lot longer than 2 weeks. I'm just finishing Week 8 of that 26-plant grow, and have only used a half gallon each of A and B so far.

If I were you, I'd buy your nutes online from now on. Normally I'm all for supporting a good local grow shop, but that shop plain, flatout cheated you. I'd never give 'em another dime.

Oh, and here's an example of what I got using just Canna A and B at about 1/4 to 1/3 strength. This was in Week 7, I believe, and those two colas you see tied down and angling lower left to upper right are 15 inches and 18 inches long, respectively, and the vertical one in the left background is 10 inches tall and 3.5 inches in diameter - and they're all still packing on mass.

Skunk Baxter said:

That dickhead salesman either has absolutely no clue what he's talking about, or he's lying through his teeth. Either way, he's completely full of shit. I'm running a coco SOG with 26 plants right now, with an ebb and flow system, and those 26 plants use anywhere from 2 gallons to maybe 3 gallons per day - all of them together. According to his fantasy math, I should be using 13 gallons of water a day. Jesus, even if you stuck your plants in pails of water instead of pots of coco, you still wouldn't use that much water.

I use Canna nutes myself, and I'm really happy with them. You're right, they have a high price tag, but one of the things I like about 'em is that I only use 1/4 to 1/3 recommended strength. If I followed Canna's feed chart, I'd have to cut a hole in the roof of my house because the damned stuff is so potent. Roughly 300 PPM of Canna is all I need, on top of the natural minerals in my tap water and whatever magnesium supplement I may be using.

You also don't need the full nute line. I just use Canna A and Canna B. I have some PK 13/14, but seldom use it because it has a tendency to bind with PH down and the calcium in my tap water to precipitate into calcium phosphate in my reservoir during flower. I use M.O.A.B. for a bloom booster. You can skip the Cannazyme, too - for a zyme, I just use Hygrozyme, which isn't cheap either but can be gotten a lot more cheaply than Cannazyme.

I don't know what kind of quantities you were buying, but even if you were buying it by the gallon that dude screwed you because you just do not need all that shit - and if you were buying it by the gallon, it would sure as hell last a lot longer than 2 weeks. I'm just finishing Week 8 of that 26-plant grow, and have only used a half gallon each of A and B so far.

If I were you, I'd buy your nutes online from now on. Normally I'm all for supporting a good local grow shop, but that shop plain, flatout cheated you. I'd never give 'em another dime.

Oh, and here's an example of what I got using just Canna A and B at about 1/4 to 1/3 strength. This was in Week 7, I believe, and those two colas you see tied down and angling lower left to upper right are 15 inches and 18 inches long, respectively.

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Nice

There are only a few reasons to buy anything from a grow shop. Convenience, and sometimes availability. Cost usually isn't a reason to buy there. Even with the 20% discount a reach around would be nice lmao.

Skunk Baxter said:

That dickhead salesman either has absolutely no clue what he's talking about, or he's lying through his teeth. Either way, he's completely full of shit. I'm running a coco SOG with 26 plants right now, with an ebb and flow system, and those 26 plants use anywhere from 2 gallons to maybe 3 gallons per day - all of them together. According to his fantasy math, I should be using 13 gallons of water a day. Jesus, even if you stuck your plants in pails of water instead of pots of coco, you still wouldn't use that much water.

I use Canna nutes myself, and I'm really happy with them. You're right, they have a high price tag, but one of the things I like about 'em is that I only use 1/4 to 1/3 recommended strength. If I followed Canna's feed chart, I'd have to cut a hole in the roof of my house because the damned stuff is so potent. Roughly 300 PPM of Canna is all I need, on top of the natural minerals in my tap water and whatever magnesium supplement I may be using.

You also don't need the full nute line. I just use Canna A and Canna B. I have some PK 13/14, but seldom use it because it has a tendency to bind with PH down and the calcium in my tap water to precipitate into calcium phosphate in my reservoir during flower. I use M.O.A.B. for a bloom booster. You can skip the Cannazyme, too - for a zyme, I just use Hygrozyme, which isn't cheap either but can be gotten a lot more cheaply than Cannazyme.

I don't know what kind of quantities you were buying, but even if you were buying it by the gallon that dude screwed you because you just do not need all that shit - and if you were buying it by the gallon, it would sure as hell last a lot longer than 2 weeks. I'm just finishing Week 8 of that 26-plant grow, and have only used a half gallon each of A and B so far.

If I were you, I'd buy your nutes online from now on. Normally I'm all for supporting a good local grow shop, but that shop plain, flatout cheated you. I'd never give 'em another dime.

Oh, and here's an example of what I got using just Canna A and B at about 1/4 to 1/3 strength. This was in Week 7, I believe, and those two colas you see tied down and angling lower left to upper right are 15 inches and 18 inches long, respectively.

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Holy mackerel man. That's impressive. I definitely will be returning this stuff tomorrow. Well a few bottles of it at least. I only bought liters of everything and it was more then 300 bucks. I got it from HTG supply. It's a convenient location but it's definitely not worth all that extra money to stay local. He was pulling out calculators and doing all this math about how much I'd be hand watering... A gallon a plant?!? Sounds ridiculous. 500 bucks for a gallon of boost? Nope.

researching said:

There are only a few reasons to buy anything from a grow shop. Convenience, and sometimes availability. Cost usually isn't a reason to buy there. Even with the 20% discount a reach around would be nice lmao.

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Yeah no kidding. They have some sort of rewards deal. I've seen arcade games give better prizes

researching said:

There are only a few reasons to buy anything from a grow shop. Convenience, and sometimes availability. Cost usually isn't a reason to buy there. Even with the 20% discount a reach around would be nice lmao.

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A good example is.... "with your discount the 3 gallon buckets are only $6.75" No thanks, I'll buy 10 of them online from home depot for $30 and pick em up in the store. Electronics is a huge rip off. I pretty much only buy stuff that there is expensive shipping for like Oxygenator, and I did buy my flood trays there because shipping is ridiculous on those also. I mostly just buy rapid rooters or now rockwool cubes for clones.

Todd Dillinger said:

Holy mackerel man. That's impressive. I definitely will be returning this stuff tomorrow. Well a few bottles of it at least. I only bought liters of everything and it was more then 300 bucks. I got it from HTG supply. It's a convenient location but it's definitely not worth all that extra money to stay local. He was pulling out calculators and doing all this math about how much I'd be hand watering... A gallon a plant?!? Sounds ridiculous. 500 bucks for a gallon of boost? Nope.

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I hope they let you return them. I was thinking the same thing as Skunk Baxter except he typed it lol. The salesman saw dollar signs. Plus, anyone who knows or recommends Canna or has used it knows you don't use it full strength.

The guy was nice enough. But many things he had to say seemed ludicrous. I asked him about the strength because my friends all use half strength at the most and he told me to definitely use full strength. I was checking out and he had a canna T shirt on and all I could think was "I fell for it"

Todd Dillinger said:

10-4. Sounds like I'm paying for a name, really. Thanks guys. I'm pretty oblivious to what I'm going to need to put in there. Any recommendations on seaweed extracts?

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I use elixir garden supplies in the UK or I buy it as a pure powder and mix it with alcohol

just gotta find a good local seaweed extract brewer, ebay can sometimes throw up some gems

Todd Dillinger said:

The guy was nice enough. But many things he had to say seemed ludicrous. I asked him about the strength because my friends all use half strength at the most and he told me to definitely use full strength. I was checking out and he had a canna T shirt on and all I could think was "I fell for it"

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I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of "spiff" for sales. I worked in retail for a long time and there was usually some sort of incentive depending on the manufacturer and retailer.

Problem is, if a shop carries Canna nutes, Canna makes them sell the entire line. They can't just carry a few canna products. That's a lot of shelf space, and they have to sell a lot of Canna to justify allocating it.

I wish you luck on your grow, bro. So very sorry you drew a bad apple salesguy on your first visit to the grow shop.

researching said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of "spiff" for sales. I worked in retail for a long time and there was usually some sort of incentive depending on the manufacturer and retailer.

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Absolutely.
You're buying Harley Davidson tshirts and they're all getting some sort of incentive. I was vulnerable and it was tax season and he knew it. I'll get my 180 dollars back tomorrow. I should of known better

Skunk Baxter said:

Problem is, if a shop carries Canna nutes, Canna makes them sell the entire line. They can't just carry a few canna products. That's a lot of shelf space, and they have to sell a lot of Canna to justify allocating it.

I wish you luck on your grow, bro. So very sorry you drew a bad apple salesguy on your first visit to the grow shop.

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You've got a good point. There's only such a big customer base for this. You guys are all great. I'm pumped to finally do this. I had plans on starting this years ago... But life happened. It's crazy how much I've learned and how much my plans have changed, time and time again. I can see why your final product is something to be so proud of. There's not one bud that is the same and I see why.

Todd Dillinger said:

Absolutely.
You're buying Harley Davidson tshirts and they're all getting some sort of incentive. I was vulnerable and it was tax season and he knew it. I'll get my 180 dollars back tomorrow. I should of known better

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Never buy from a local store unless it's an emergency. Prices are way more competive on line if you do your homework. I can get 5 liters of canna boost for $350 flat and it can last me a while. And this is with a lot of girls drinking it. And like @Skunk Baxter said.
You can use almost 1/2 to 3/4 less then they tell you and get awesome results. I learned the hard way myself. We all have.

Well I think you'll be happy with the mb ferts line. I started using just the Vitamin Hormone booster with the rest of the canna stuff, then looked for an enzyme to replace cannazyme and started using hygrozyme, then switched to mbferts completely still using hygrozyme, then switched to pond protector. The desire to reduce costs drove me to seek alternatives. I would rather spend that money on upgrading my setup. And I am so glad I did. So you know, mbferts lineup is basically clones of more expensive brands. A lot are similare to AN without the cool label or price. This stuff comes in plain white bottles with hand written name and instructions. Very low frill but all very well worth it.

Todd Dillinger said:

You've got a good point. There's only such a big customer base for this. You guys are all great. I'm pumped to finally do this. I had plans on starting this years ago... But life happened. It's crazy how much I've learned and how much my plans have changed, time and time again. I can see why your final product is something to be so proud of. There's not one bud that is the same and I see why.

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for bloom you can normally find a powder feed with 1-2-3 npk rations and TE (trace elements) along with 3mg and some cal, that powder is normally something like a 10-20-30 so a little bit gos a long way and because it`s a powder it keeps ages

Normally use that with a good veg feed to start them out and some kinda plant start or rooting product

I think we pay something like £20 for 5kg of the bloom powder feed, normally use around 15g to 50g in 20 to 30L of water, as our later feed, much cheaper than most products and we don`t even have to PH it much, some of the cheaper liquid feeds we get lack acid and make our tap water that`s normally ph 7.6 to 8.2 go up even more so ph down is a must when we use some cheaper products

but ph down is very very cheap I don`t really like paying someone because they mixed some buffers into the food

I mean if I really wanted to I could just get some citric acid powder and work out how much to mix with the powder food so I could nail the PH and not even have to test it

but from doing hydro in the past I`m so used to ph`ing and ppm`ing with my testers and I know it makes a huge difference not only do you get more but you need less food to do it, so ph`ing makes your growing cheaper

Canna boost does work all their products can grow good weed, and tbh I know a lot of people that use upto 2 x strength even when adding PK too

only real reason I can think they get more is that canna is a bit weak but also adding the extra food means extra buffers so it brings the ph down a bit more

Our tap water as I said can hit over 8.2ph before you let it sit, so I`m thinking a lot of the people growing bigger buds using more canna a+b and pk the main reason is due to them getting the ph closer to optimal by adding the extra food, in reality they would see much the same results if they ph`d their water

but try telling them that............ anyone with a canna bug in the brain won`t listen to you, and their "akitivator" what a rip off, how much is 10g of trichoderma ? I get 1kg of the stuff from india direct for £13, and many shops sell the 10g canna for £14 and the 250g one ? they must be charging £40 to £150 for it, it`s under £15 for 1kg from india hell I don`t even think we pay any tax on the stuff from india and if anything it coming in a 1kg sack straight from the factory makes it work better than some old tub that`s sat in a grow shop for years

Food for thought for sure. I'll go to whatever measures to save that much money. That's extremely significant.... The markup, the difference between buying online and also, the aftermarket "knockoffs"

Todd Dillinger said:

hey guys. New to growing and trying the coco peat/ coir out and the guy at the hydro store sold me 300 bucks worth of nutes. He mentioned they might last a week and a half maybe 2 weeks each (1 liter) I bought canna products. Here's what I bought:

PK 13/14
Boost 0-1-1
Cannazym
Rhizotonic 0-0-0.6
Coco A and Coco B

My question is, is this all necessary? I know the stuff will grow without any of it and don't mind paying for all the nutes if I can a better yield that justifies it. Any advice would be great. Alternative nutrients? If I can drop some of these and still get the same yield, I would obviously do it. Thanks guys. And for anyone looking for specifics.... 5x10 bloom room with 10 plants in Scrog. 2 1000w and a 600w MH in my 4x4 veg tent.

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Dude, you got ripped the hell off. Don't buy into these nutrient hype and their 30+ bottles of watered down snake oil. All you need is a 25 lbs bag of Jack's Classic All Purpose 20-20-20 ($35) and/or a 25 lbs bag of Jack's Classic Bloom Booster 10-30-20 ($35), a 10 lbs bag of dolomite lime ($3) and a bag of bath salt at wal-mart, k-mart, etc ($6). For a total of $79 - $44 (without Bloom Booster) you will have plant food that will last you a life time if grown in a small scale. I've used Jack's in soil, soiless, coco and hydro - dwc & ebb/flow. Works great in all system with excellent result. Here's my current grow using ONLY Jack's and no other snake oil. 3 - 4 more weeks till chop and the buds are already massive.