Help with possible ph problem

I don’t know about the whole “ no need to ph “ thing. I don’t ph when I just water, but my amendments don’t have a high enough P and K, so I feed guano and kelp. Those 2 drastically drop my ph just below 6. So if I don’t ph I might as well not even use it because the plant won’t eat it if I don’t. Now if I say screw the guano and kelp and just water the entire grow, then I agree with the no need to ph process.

Dontjudgeme said:

I don’t know about the whole “ no need to ph “ thing. I don’t ph when I just water, but my amendments don’t have a high enough P and K, so I feed guano and kelp. Those 2 drastically drop my ph just below 6. So if I don’t ph I might as well not even use it because the plant won’t eat it if I don’t. Now if I say screw the guano and kelp and just water the entire grow, then I agree with the no need to ph process.

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That's where oyster shell flour comes in handy. There needs to be a balance even in organic soil.

Wattzzup said:

Yeah @Renfro you should read up on growing. A few books wouldn’t kill ya!

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I wasn’t being a dick. I was respectfully disagree with you and Renfro. I don’t get on a forum to grab points for getting likes. Part of what has been said is just fundamentally wrong. I know how to grow just fine in the style that I do it. I happen to have two extra plants I threw in 3 gallons and used some bottled nutes I had laying around.

honestly, I started out with liquid nutrients like most people and there’s a reason why a lot of people are moving away from it. For one, super soil is easier in a lot of ways. If you live in an apartment you might not want to deal with super soil. If you have any space at all though then mixing up organic soil and letting it cook is nothing.
No point in me explaining though you seem to not be interested in learning

Dontjudgeme said:

I don’t know about the whole “ no need to ph “ thing. I don’t ph when I just water, but my amendments don’t have a high enough P and K, so I feed guano and kelp. Those 2 drastically drop my ph just below 6. So if I don’t ph I might as well not even use it because the plant won’t eat it if I don’t. Now if I say screw the guano and kelp and just water the entire grow, then I agree with the no need to ph process.

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I have been learning about super soil and organic farming for a couple years now. When you talk to people who have been doing this and know what they’re talking about they will tell you that the pH is not necessary. From my experience pH has not been necessary at all and my plants look extremely healthy (the ones that are in super soil not bottle-fed)

I had an extra plant and didn’t have 5 gallon pots so I stuck it in a 3 gallon. Everything was fine till I started giving bottle nutes and now I have a problem because I didn’t focus on PH. I promise you that pH is not nearly as important with a really healthy living soil. One of my favorite parts about it is the need to only give water and not having to PH. I just gave mine a compost tea loaded with back guano, kelp, molasses and worm castings and compost. I’ve done this before and many other people have two with no problems.

It’s a misconception that you need to PH with living soil because it’s been so stigmatized that if you don’t do it you’re gonna ruin everything. PHing is only important in substrate with very little microbial activity. As long as the microbial population is active and the soil is healthy then your roots will have no problem taking up nutrients. This is organic gardening that has been done for thousands of years. The pH of water is most important with cannabis growers for a reason. Modern day farming is becoming all about fixing things that are broken in my opinion

PadawanWarrior said:

I would never question your grow methods man. If you ever did try organics, I have a feeling you'd kick ass. I'm actually doing no-till so I don't have to do as much work. I don't have room to setup irrigation and all that, so it's hand watering for me. I like just giving plain water, but I have a long ways to go trying to figure this shit out. Plus it's a lot slower process for the nutrients to be accessible to the plants.

Again, I would never want to challenge you to a grow off, lol.

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Honestly bro, I wouldn’t say that you’re just learning it sounds like your light years ahead of most people. Slowly and surely people will be figuring out the power of organics and why it’s so much better. I am glad I found it early on and don’t plan on trying anything else.

No offense to anything anyone else said but if anybody thinks that super soil and bottles nutes is more difficult than hydroponics or bottle-fed then they are just flat out wrong. This is from my experience and many others. You got a try it first before you can claim it’s not as easy.

for instance, from my experience in many others. Bottle nutes are a hassle and it’s a guessing game. It takes way more experience and knowledge than super soil and organic farming does. It’s really like this, organic farming is more of feeling things out And based on wisdom. Bottled nutes and hydroponic is really based on knowledge because you got to know all kinds of things. You basically have to plan for something to go wrong with bottled nuts.

The whole goal of super soil is to create an extremely healthy living soil which is everything needed for the plant to be healthy from start to finish.

Wattzzup said:

That’s great but I already have gnats. Now you want me to bring in worms and turn my grow area into a garbage disposal? I’ll pass. If I had the space to do these things I would love to. I just personally don’t have the space.

Learning to build super soil is a whole other world. I’m still working on growing the damn plants.

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You shouldn’t be so quick to assume people are being assholes. There was some thing said that are not true. would you rather know the truth? I wouldn’t of mentioned it if it wasn’t true that the PH is not necessary with healthy living soil.

For some reason a couple people were extremely quick to rag on super soil. The one and only thing that makes super soil more difficult is having to mix the ingredients and let it cook. Other than that, every single thing else about it is easier and I promise you that.

Labradorweed said:

I have been learning about super soil and organic farming for a couple years now. When you talk to people who have been doing this and know what they’re talking about they will tell you that the pH is not necessary. From my experience pH has not been necessary at all and my plants look extremely healthy (the ones that are in super soil not bottle-fed)

I had an extra plant and didn’t have 5 gallon pots so I stuck it in a 3 gallon. Everything was fine till I started giving bottle nutes and now I have a problem because I didn’t focus on PH. I promise you that pH is not nearly as important with a really healthy living soil. One of my favorite parts about it is the need to only give water and not having to PH. I just gave mine a compost tea loaded with back guano, kelp, molasses and worm castings and compost. I’ve done this before and many other people have two with no problems.

It’s a misconception that you need to PH with living soil because it’s been so stigmatized that if you don’t do it you’re gonna ruin everything. PHing is only important in substrate with very little microbial activity. As long as the microbial population is active and the soil is healthy then your roots will have no problem taking up nutrients. This is organic gardening that has been done for thousands of years. The pH of water is most important with cannabis growers for a reason. Modern day farming is becoming all about fixing things that are broken in my opinion

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Im going to try this out. Luckily I have some clones going right now. I’m going to hold off on the ph’ing on one of them and see how it compares to the others. I’m always willing to try new things instead of completely dismissing the idea.

Dontjudgeme said:

Im going to try this out. Luckily I have some clones going right now. I’m going to hold off on the ph’ing on one of them and see how it compares to the others. I’m always willing to try new things instead of completely dismissing the idea.

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With a good super soil it should buffer everything for you. What @Renfro and I were discussing is how we like to control the nutrients and see the plants reactions almost immediately. When you see a def with organic you have to assess then set up a tent and wait for results. It’s not an impatience thing as much as it is being able to adjust on the fly.

OP your 21 days into flower with issues. You have a long way to go. Thanks for the lessons on organic. I especially like how you repeated yourself over and over thinking that would help. I’ve grown organic I did water only except for a few dry amendments. Not interested in having a garbage dump in my grow area. Probably will work for some it’s just not for my situation. Thanks for tips though. As I’ve spent 0 time reading about anything

Wattzzup said:

With a good super soil it should buffer everything for you. What @Renfro and I were discussing is how we like to control the nutrients and see the plants reactions almost immediately. When you see a def with organic you have to assess then set up a tent and wait for results. It’s not an impatience thing as much as it is being able to adjust on the fly.

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Being able to change feed and see results quickly is especially handy when you are growing multiple strains. With mono culture things are a lot easier to dial in. The more different genetics you grow side by side the more you find that some like things a little different. Yeah the majority can get by fine on a generic feed but there are always those strains that walk their own path. I wouldn't have said that 15 years ago because I, for the most part, just mono cropped for the 15 years before that. After running grows with 20+ different strains I learned quickly that being able to fine tune things individually can provide superior results. Being able to read the plants and react in a corrective manner is the best skill a grower can have IMO. Bottle feeding facilitates this with rapid results.

I believe that the super soil situation you are generally compromising the ability to fine tune things easily and leaving a rather generic feed in play.

I have learned that changing the balance of my feed as flowering progresses provides superior results for me. I wouldn't wish to sacrifice that in order to use super soil. Different strokes for different folks but I have always been told that my terpene production, flavor, potency and yields were superior and when asked they thought it was organic, flushed and cured (none of the above).

When growing multiple strains, ie: shotgunning a bunch of packs, I like to log them and record what feed changes I made for them. This has proven extremely helpful when going to mono crop a room with one of those strains, dialing in 5% or 10% more yield really adds up when dealing with larger scale operations. Dialing in higher terpene production during ripening can increase the wholesale value of your crop. Good weed sells itself and for me personally I have never smoked organic weed that was as impressive as properly fed hydro when it came to terpene production, a few that were close. I am accepting samples if you got something to show off though

So in short I am not saying that super soil won't work and grow some good weed, it's just not my gig. For those that use it I say great, I am glad you have a method you like. I am not saying it's a bad thing, it's just less attractive from my commercial growers POV.

Labradorweed said:

I have been learning about super soil and organic farming for a couple years now. When you talk to people who have been doing this and know what they’re talking about they will tell you that the pH is not necessary. From my experience pH has not been necessary at all and my plants look extremely healthy (the ones that are in super soil not bottle-fed)

I had an extra plant and didn’t have 5 gallon pots so I stuck it in a 3 gallon. Everything was fine till I started giving bottle nutes and now I have a problem because I didn’t focus on PH. I promise you that pH is not nearly as important with a really healthy living soil. One of my favorite parts about it is the need to only give water and not having to PH. I just gave mine a compost tea loaded with back guano, kelp, molasses and worm castings and compost. I’ve done this before and many other people have two with no problems.

It’s a misconception that you need to PH with living soil because it’s been so stigmatized that if you don’t do it you’re gonna ruin everything. PHing is only important in substrate with very little microbial activity. As long as the microbial population is active and the soil is healthy then your roots will have no problem taking up nutrients. This is organic gardening that has been done for thousands of years. The pH of water is most important with cannabis growers for a reason. Modern day farming is becoming all about fixing things that are broken in my opinion

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What was the reason for feeding it bottled nutrients in the first place?

I wouldn't even know where to start with organics, as much as the knowledge of some of the organic growers impresses me it not for me.
But if you have a problem then speak to Richard Drysift or one of the other experienced guys in the organic section .
Some incredible folks in there.

Wattzzup said:

With a good super soil it should buffer everything for you. What @Renfro and I were discussing is how we like to control the nutrients and see the plants reactions almost immediately. When you see a def with organic you have to assess then set up a tent and wait for results. It’s not an impatience thing as much as it is being able to adjust on the fly.

OP your 21 days into flower with issues. You have a long way to go. Thanks for the lessons on organic. I especially like how you repeated yourself over and over thinking that would help. I’ve grown organic I did water only except for a few dry amendments. Not interested in having a garbage dump in my grow area. Probably will work for some it’s just not for my situation. Thanks for tips though. As I’ve spent 0 time reading about anything

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I bottle fed before I switched over to organic. And you are absolutely right about the control factor. As a matter of fact I still do, I just use the organic route more now because I’m about to go back to work, and my wife will be dealing with the girls. Figured it would be easier for her to just water than to try to play scientist and screw something up. I don’t even smoke, I grow for her. She said she like the smoothness of the organic grow compared to the bottle fed plants. This has also played a role in why I switched to organic. If I were growing over 5 strains at a time like I do now, I would definitely bottle feed over organic, because like what renfro said, not all plants react the same way, and being able to quickly remedy what they don’t like on the fly is important, vs having to wait for whatever changes you make to take place like organic.

I guess I've just been extremely lucky, because I haven’t had 1 issue growing organically. Fingers crossed. Is it because I Ph, because my environment is perfect, because the girls like the amendments I use, I don’t know, but I’ve definitely seen more fixing when I bottle feed vs my organic grows. That doesn’t mean that one is better than the other, and that has nothing to do with why I grow organic vs bottle feeding. I understand why some people do it and some don’t, I respect both ways of growing. I think you both have a lot to offer in terms of knowledge and experience, and anyone that actually pays attention to what you guys say should realize that rather quickly.

Dontjudgeme said:

Im going to try this out. Luckily I have some clones going right now. I’m going to hold off on the ph’ing on one of them and see how it compares to the others. I’m always willing to try new things instead of completely dismissing the idea.

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I believe you said you were in no till. Definitely the best way to experiment with this is in no till since there’s probably the highest amount of microbial activity of any substrate. Just make sure that they are in your thriving substrate before you experiment with the pH. For instance, if you start your clones out in something like fox farms and you don’t PH then it’s probably going to not work out because there’s not very heavy microbial activity in Fox Farms. But if you have a strong and healthy thriving super soil or no till going then you should have no problems at all. This isn’t just from my experience this is from many others experience as well. It really just comes down to the microbial population and if everything is healthy the way super soil and No till are supposed to be then there will be no problems.

honestly my number one favorite reason for super soil and Notel is the ease of use. I consider myself really lucky to have found super soil early on.

Wattzzup said:

With a good super soil it should buffer everything for you. What @Renfro and I were discussing is how we like to control the nutrients and see the plants reactions almost immediately. When you see a def with organic you have to assess then set up a tent and wait for results. It’s not an impatience thing as much as it is being able to adjust on the fly.

OP your 21 days into flower with issues. You have a long way to go. Thanks for the lessons on organic. I especially like how you repeated yourself over and over thinking that would help. I’ve grown organic I did water only except for a few dry amendments. Not interested in having a garbage dump in my grow area. Probably will work for some it’s just not for my situation. Thanks for tips though. As I’ve spent 0 time reading about anything

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Obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about and you’re putting words in my mouth. You’re trying to say I’m not good and don’t know what I’m talking about because of one plant I have in a different container that I’m using bottled nutes on. You should really chill out and take it easy dude. Life doesn’t have to be so serious. All I’m doing is supplying information that I think is valuable and you appear to be pretty upset (probably with life in general)

you’re just wrong again. You’ve already shown that you don’t know what you’re talking about multiple times. I’ve given you valuable information and all you can say is some twisted BS that doesn’t express what I mentioned. Bottled nuts are more of a pain in the ass and that’s just the way it is. The mixing of the nutrients is a pain in the ass. Having to PH is a pain in the ass. Having to constantly make sure everything is just right is a pain in the ass. And just so you understand. You and other homey are completely wrong about not being able to supply the plant with everything that needs immediately when it goes into the substrate. I wish that you would go read and understand before you try to have this discussion with me because you really don’t know what you’re talking about. The other guy admitted that he doesn’t even do anything with organics and he’s trying to have an argument too, hello...

you have to understand what you’re talking about before you even have an argument with somebody so stop being pissed off pull your pants up and go learn something.

certain nutrients released faster than others. For instance blood meal supplies nitrogen immediately to a plant assuming that the soil was cooked first. Bonemeal releases phosphorus at a pretty slow rate so you can be sure that your plants going to be getting phosphorus throughout throughout the whole life. If the microbial activity is strong then it makes all the nutrients in the substrate much more readily available. The microbial activity is why the plant has all the nutrients it needs at command.

bottled nutes are more of a pain in the ass because it’s basically baby feeding a plant and trying to control things which is a lousy way of doing anything. It’s literally this simple, would you rather sit back and let the environment do what it’s been doing for thousands of years in the most successful way the environment can do it? Or would you rather try and control things and have to deal with pain in the ass problems that come out of nowhere? It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to control feeding that’s a complete misconception. The reason that’s a misconception is because people like yourself for some reason think that organic gardening is somehow more difficult and it’s just not. The food is all contained within the soil like it should be. The reason people have to feed so much with bottle nutrients is because the microbial activity is not allowing the roots to take up nutrients in a healthy manner.

there’s no point in me saying anything to you because you’re obviously just an upset human being that doesn’t want to learn in an open minded way. There’s nothing I said that has been unreasonable but you have taken it personally for whatever reasons. Good luck.

There’s a reason why bottle nutrients caused people a lot of problems and it’s because you’re trying to baby feed something that doesn’t want to be baby fed. In general things are healthier and live longer and better lives when they have the things that nature intended them to have in order to be healthy

coreywebster said:

What was the reason for feeding it bottled nutrients in the first place?

I wouldn't even know where to start with organics, as much as the knowledge of some of the organic growers impresses me it not for me.
But if you have a problem then speak to Richard Drysift or one of the other experienced guys in the organic section .
Some incredible folks in there.

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I just had an extra plant that I didn’t have a 5 gallon pot for. I didn’t plan to keep it but I ended up keeping it because I didn’t want to get rid of it. So basically I stuck it in a little 3 gallon pot and planed to give it bottle nutrients. Everything’s been fine the entire time until early flourEverything’s been fine the entire time until early flower. I’m sure it’s because the pH is off but like I said I never have to check pH with organic living soil. So basically I got a little bit lazy with this in terms of checking the PH but I didn’t think I would have to because my bottle nutrients are organic and like I said if you have a healthy active microbial population in your soil then the pH becomes pretty much irrelevant, it has for me and many many other organic growers that are in living soil.

honestly, I didn’t come on here to argue with people but there are some people with extremely strong opinions that are expressing them in ways that are single minded and just flat out not correct, Not talking about you but in general it’s hard to have a discussion with people who are on the opposite end and have no open mindedness

Labradorweed said:

I just had an extra plant that I didn’t have a 5 gallon pot for. I didn’t plan to keep it but I ended up keeping it because I didn’t want to get rid of it. So basically I stuck it in a little 3 gallon pot and planed to give it bottle nutrients. Everything’s been fine the entire time until early flourEverything’s been fine the entire time until early flower. I’m sure it’s because the pH is off but like I said I never have to check pH with organic living soil. So basically I got a little bit lazy with this in terms of checking the PH but I didn’t think I would have to because my bottle nutrients are organic and like I said if you have a healthy active microbial population in your soil then the pH becomes pretty much irrelevant, it has for me and many many other organic growers that are in living soil.

honestly, I didn’t come on here to argue with people but there are some people with extremely strong opinions that are expressing them in ways that are single minded and just flat out not correct, Not talking about you but in general it’s hard to have a discussion with people who are on the opposite end and have no open mindedness

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Can you provide a pic of your wider environment ? I want to see all the plants as they are rather than just the tops of just the problem plant.

So all your plants are top notch except the bottled nutrients? Is that what you’re saying. You’re really pinning yourself down to be some master grower. You clearly can’t read what is written even though you quote it. I tried organic it’s not for me. Good luck with super soil. If you had good super soil you wouldn’t need bottled nutrients. Sounds like you did some research but still working your way through it. All good we all are. Best of luck buddy

Labradorweed said:

I believe you said you were in no till. Definitely the best way to experiment with this is in no till since there’s probably the highest amount of microbial activity of any substrate. Just make sure that they are in your thriving substrate before you experiment with the pH. For instance, if you start your clones out in something like fox farms and you don’t PH then it’s probably going to not work out because there’s not very heavy microbial activity in Fox Farms. But if you have a strong and healthy thriving super soil or no till going then you should have no problems at all. This isn’t just from my experience this is from many others experience as well. It really just comes down to the microbial population and if everything is healthy the way super soil and No till are supposed to be then there will be no problems.

honestly my number one favorite reason for super soil and Notel is the ease of use. I consider myself really lucky to have found super soil early on.

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I start off in promix HP ( mycorrhizae ). No amendments yet. I wait till the seed has it at least 4 true leaves, then I add a little amendment to start feeding. Once I transplant into the 1 gallon pot I do my full amendment. This is when I start ph’ing. Then I transplant again into my final 3 gal pot, and I amend again. Once I trigger flowering ( photos ), or when the auto starts flowering, I top dress with my bloom amendments. This is when I introduce my supplements, kelp, guano, molasses, and sometimes silica if I know I can’t water for whatever reason. Helps the plant thrive in harsh conditions. ( Drought ) But this is pretty much how I do things, and I never have any issues, I MEAN NEVER!!!

Now I can’t say the same for bottle feeding. While I like the science behind bottle feeding and the control aspect, being able to increase or decrease Nutes based on the stage of growth I’m in, I’ve had some interesting results. Took some dialing in based on the strain, but note taking removes any guessing out of the equation. Since I’m going back to work, I can’t bottle feed because it requires me to be really hands on and watch the plants closely. This is one of the advantages of growing organically for me, everything is on cruise control. It allows me the time to really perfect my growing environment and experiment with my room/tent and see what the plant prefers.

Like I said earlier, I respect everyone’s growing style and techniques. It’s interesting how some things work better for others, and why people choose certain ways of doing things over other ways.

Wattzzup said:

But you’re smoking chemicals bro!

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Gotta watch out for hydrogen dioxide. They tell me to give it to my plants everyday. But I'm like dude, that's a chemical.

Im finishing my 2nd grow and have only used supersoil, and have grown 10 different strains in these 2 grows.

Renfro and many others here have helped me directly and indirectly, ive read so many threads on so many subjects im like a stalker towards you guys lol, and you dont even know it lol.

One of the more interesting parts of this discussion is that it is almost always soil growers, often organic, sometimes even no till, that preach at a religious level about its success.

I too chose supersoil as a starting point because once I did the hard work getting soil built, i would be free of all the concerns of what to feed, how and when. It has worked very well for me. But it is far from perfect.

And the yellowing in supersoil in mid flower is real, and is the subject of a lot of discussion as to why -- is it ph, is it underfed, is it naturally yellowing earlier than nute grows?

I'll say this. I clearly hear the OP repeating my mantra it was done for convenience! Readily admitted. Me too.

There is a big, important difference between telling oneself a story about how the way you grow is superior, and does not require ph or anything else, and understanding that a holistic view of gardening -- being agnostic about method -- is the key to overall success.

Maybe as you think, nutes are never needed or organic is superior. Except every hydro grower can prove to you they can grow faster, have more control and as renfro suggests, actually influence the plants nutrient uptake beyond what it "wants."

I will not limit myself and will NEVER say organic is better, easier or in any way superior.

I know what I know, and am open to and welcome learning more. I want to understand nutes too, because it will teach me exactly how nutes work. Organic can shape the result with amendments, hydro can directly affect the result. Making hydro superior in this regard.

For me to believe organic is superior would require that I believe human performance and growth is best done organically.

Is the strongest, fastest, most agile humans ones that never took a supplement? F no! Ever seen the bodybuilding events where they have the pure athletes up on stage with the 'roid monsters? Yeah about 100 lbs difference of pure muscle. Organically it is not possible to be the biggest, most cut person in the world. It is only by forcing the system chemicals and a ton of healthy food that ther athlete reaches a performance level beyond what can be achieved organically.

I respect life and organics but am not a slave to it. Im open to there being a combination of methods that can and will always be superior.

My advice since this thread is full of it is to pull back on the preachy everybody should understand organics...they do my brother.

They see past it, to something less pure and more effective.