High tap water ph for supersoil

_EQ

_EQ

Well-Known Member
i have recently made my first super soil batch, the soil ph is about 7. My tap water after being put through a carbon filter for Chlorine/chloramines comes out at 7.9-8.5 depending. Should I be PHing my water? Or should I be trusting the microbes in the root zone to be buffering to the proper range? I’ve seen a few things about citric acid as a ph down that’s organic, I also read it doesn’t effect beneficial bacteria like phosphoric based ph downs. What is the consensus on what the I’ve read? So far I have one tester clone in a 2 gal pot coming up on 2 weeks with no visible issues. I’m sure if I run into issues they would start to show up soon? Any kind of insight or opinion helps thanks!
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
_EQ said:
i have recently made my first super soil batch, the soil ph is about 7. My tap water after being put through a carbon filter for Chlorine/chloramines comes out at 7.9-8.5 depending. Should I be PHing my water? Or should I be trusting the microbes in the root zone to be buffering to the proper range? I’ve seen a few things about citric acid as a ph down that’s organic, I also read it doesn’t effect beneficial bacteria like phosphoric based ph downs. What is the consensus on what the I’ve read? So far I have one tester clone in a 2 gal pot coming up on 2 weeks with no visible issues. I’m sure if I run into issues they would start to show up soon? Any kind of insight or opinion helps thanks!
Click to expand...
don’t ph, I think about it as follows…. For living soil type growing…..

you more likely to change your GUTS microbe by taking a shower in PHed Water, than to change your SOIL ph by changing the ph of your water.

I only say this cause I’ve watched and tried and done lots of different things… if your medium ph is off it has to do with soil inputs. Soil is rocking 6.5- 7 don’t sweat it then. If your soil ph continues to rise then working at establishing a more bacterial dominant environment will lower ph faster than any adjustment of water…

the real magic is that the plant will regulate soil ph based on its current needs. But this only works once you’re dialed in on watering. Speaking of which under watering is the number one issue most people deal with when switching to organic soil. And under watering can promote higher soil ph and undesirable environment for your micro herd… water everyday, even if it’s just a little bit early in cycle Do a tiny bit each day instead of your “traditional” dry back technique of salt based growing
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
_EQ said:
i have recently made my first super soil batch, the soil ph is about 7. My tap water after being put through a carbon filter for Chlorine/chloramines comes out at 7.9-8.5 depending. Should I be PHing my water? Or should I be trusting the microbes in the root zone to be buffering to the proper range? I’ve seen a few things about citric acid as a ph down that’s organic, I also read it doesn’t effect beneficial bacteria like phosphoric based ph downs. What is the consensus on what the I’ve read? So far I have one tester clone in a 2 gal pot coming up on 2 weeks with no visible issues. I’m sure if I run into issues they would start to show up soon? Any kind of insight or opinion helps thanks!
Click to expand...
Don’t be afraid of bigger pots and more frequent up pots with super soil? What’s your plan for final size container for flowering?
 
_EQ

_EQ

Well-Known Member
HydoDan said:
If you have dolomite lime in your mix it will buffer the ph..
Click to expand...
I do I have dolomite, and oyster shell flour along with crab meal too. But my concern is that my water ph being so high buffering it from so high up makes it difficult to get optimal ph ranges even with the ph balancing amendment
 
_EQ

_EQ

Well-Known Member
green_machine_two9er said:
Don’t be afraid of bigger pots and more frequent up pots with super soil? What’s your plan for final size container for flowering?
Click to expand...
Yeah so this is just a test run to see how viable my soil is, I plan on going to a 7 gal indoor just to get some feedback and data on if the soil will need anything, if my tap water ph being too high will cause any issues, etc.
 
_EQ

_EQ

Well-Known Member
green_machine_two9er said:
don’t ph, I think about it as follows…. For living soil type growing…..

you more likely to change your GUTS microbe by taking a shower in PHed Water, than to change your SOIL ph by changing the ph of your water.

I only say this cause I’ve watched and tried and done lots of different things… if your medium ph is off it has to do with soil inputs. Soil is rocking 6.5- 7 don’t sweat it then. If your soil ph continues to rise then working at establishing a more bacterial dominant environment will lower ph faster than any adjustment of water…

the real magic is that the plant will regulate soil ph based on its current needs. But this only works once you’re dialed in on watering. Speaking of which under watering is the number one issue most people deal with when switching to organic soil. And under watering can promote higher soil ph and undesirable environment for your micro herd… water everyday, even if it’s just a little bit early in cycle Do a tiny bit each day instead of your “traditional” dry back technique of salt based growing
Click to expand...
Good comparison but my worry is that because my water PH is so high, that continuously watering throughout the life cycle will drive the soil PH up. Which goes back to the having watering dialed in. Watering at 8+ ph will just make it harder on the microbes to regulate and lower ph when the plant wants to take what it needs. Atleast that is my thought,
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
_EQ said:
Good comparison but my worry is that because my water PH is so high, that continuously watering throughout the life cycle will drive the soil PH up. Which goes back to the having watering dialed in. Watering at 8+ ph will just make it harder on the microbes to regulate and lower ph when the plant wants to take what it needs. Atleast that is my thought,
Click to expand...
I know it seems that way but I grew in a barn for years, had regularly 8-8.5 ph. At first I was freaked out but grew to really love that level for water.
And still your assuming that with all your buffering agent in the soil and properly built recipe , that water ph will have some effect on the medium. It really does in coco, or straight peat. But with super soil chulk full of organic inputs, you could water fuxking 12 ph and I bet a proper soil container will handle it. I can dig up a ton of pictures from those days of high ph; you can see for yourself it doesn’t make a difference in the world
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
_EQ said:
Yeah so this is just a test run to see how viable my soil is, I plan on going to a 7 gal indoor just to get some feedback and data on if the soil will need anything, if my tap water ph being too high will cause any issues, etc.
Click to expand...
Small pot will cause way more issues than your tap water! Food for thought!! It’s a buffet in there might as well make it a diverse large casino buffet, not the little china buffet in the run down shopping mall….
 
_EQ

_EQ

Well-Known Member
green_machine_two9er said:
I know it seems that way but I grew in a barn for years, had regularly 8-8.5 ph. At first I was freaked out but grew to really love that level for water.
And still your assuming that with all your buffering agent in the soil and properly built recipe , that water ph will have some effect on the medium. It really does in coco, or straight peat. But with super soil chulk full of organic inputs, you could water fuxking 12 ph and I bet a proper soil container will handle it. I can dig up a ton of pictures from those days of high ph; you can see for yourself it doesn’t make a difference in the world
Click to expand...
Well that’s the thing. It being my first super soil recipe ever that I built from scratch (like many others). I can’t be completely confident in it buffering appropriately, that’s partially the reason why I made this post!
 
_EQ

_EQ

Well-Known Member
green_machine_two9er said:
Small pot will cause way more issues than your tap water! Food for thought!! It’s a buffet in there might as well make it a diverse large casino buffet, not the little china buffet in the run down shopping mall….
Click to expand...
I am aware of that! I had a pretty beat up clone that I’ve barely kept alive that I ended up using as the guinea pig. I filled a 3 gal bucket 100% with the super soil and will up pot if the soil does what it needs to do. Will I still face issues possibly?
 
JustBlazin

JustBlazin

Well-Known Member
I grow in organic soil that I amend myself. It's just pro mix mixed with gaia green all purpose and a couple other things, including a little extra dolomite lime and oyster shell flour. My water ph is in the 8s I believe, been years since I tested it...lol
I don't ph my water and I don't try to do anything about the chlorine in my water. And they still grow great. I used to think both were a big issue when I first started doing organic, but as the saying goes.....don't sweat it, it's organic.
The microbes will buffer the soil if you have the right inputs in your soil.

Green machine is right, bigger pots with organic soil make life alot easier. I grow in 2 gallon containers but it's not recommended for everyone....lol. you need to be on top of top dressing and what not.

They way I look at it is,
big plant small pot = problems
Big plant big pot= good
Small plant small pot= doable but not recommended

Container size is really relative to size of plant.
But generally for new to organic growers it's always better to go bigger than needed to give you some wiggle room.
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
"Soil" = dirt with living "stuff" in it that creates and maintains its pH -like what Grandma has in her vegetable garden.

"Soil" = bagged potting mix comprised of peat moss, perlite, etc. -basically inert components....does NOT maintain its pH. You must maintain the pH, yourself.

In my experience with bagged soil, you get maybe about 1 month of "built-in" nutrients and some bagged mixes can be very acidic, too, because of the bark and peat moss components.

I always do a slurry test and I always check runoff. It's easy to do. I use the GH pH drops to do all my tests and I don't trust pH meters.

I developed a system of using amended bagged soil mixes as if they are just another type of hydroponic substrate. After about a month of just pH'd water, I start using Jack's 3-2-1 system and the plants get fed every watering, thereafter.
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
JustBlazin said:
I grow in organic soil that I amend myself. It's just pro mix mixed with gaia green all purpose and a couple other things, including a little extra dolomite lime and oyster shell flour. My water ph is in the 8s I believe, been years since I tested it...lol
I don't ph my water and I don't try to do anything about the chlorine in my water. And they still grow great. I used to think both were a big issue when I first started doing organic, but as the saying goes.....don't sweat it, it's organic.
The microbes will buffer the soil if you have the right inputs in your soil.

Green machine is right, bigger pots with organic soil make life alot easier. I grow in 2 gallon containers but it's not recommended for everyone....lol. you need to be on top of top dressing and what not.

They way I look at it is,
big plant small pot = problems
Big plant big pot= good
Small plant small pot= doable but not recommended

Container size is really relative to size of plant.
But generally for new to organic growers it's always better to go bigger than needed to give you some wiggle room.
Click to expand...
I’d love to see some twos grown out! I can’t do anything smaller than 5s, and I barely give em week or two veg sometimes less
 
S

Soil Growth

Member
I agree about not pH'ing the water, and I would just use it without adjustment.

Then brew up some compost tea or earth worm casting tea every couple of weeks to make sure the microbes are going strong and keeping your soil pH in the proper range.

I don't think a little citric acid here and there will kill of your microbes, but if you're using that stuff every watering it's bound to build up and cause trouble. Maybe even killing off your microbes, or just making them go dormant or something. And if your microbes aren't healthy and digesting the amendments in your soil, your plants aren't getting any nutrients. If you're not careful your plants could get all yellow because they're hungry

I would also be careful about adding a lot of extra lime or oyster shell or anything high in calcium to the soil. There is a good chance that your water has a high pH because it's high dissolved minerals like calcium. Adding a bunch more can Sometimes cause hard to diagnose lockout issues like yellowing.
 
by2

by2

Well-Known Member
So the question is why your tap water have so high PH?
It will be fine if it just has a hight PH but if it has a high alkalinity it can fuck up your soil after a few runs.
I would suggest to get a water test. A simple home test will due to give you an indication.
 
_EQ

_EQ

Well-Known Member
by2 said:
So the question is why your tap water have so high PH?
It will be fine if it just has a hight PH but if it has a high alkalinity it can fuck up your soil after a few runs.
I would suggest to get a water test. A simple home test will due to give you an indication.
Click to expand...
Yeah so the ppm is usually 150 and under last I measured it it was 132 like last week. I know our water is super hard. Growing in fabric pots you really see the calcium and salt build up on them. I tried to find a detailed report on my municipal water supply but I couldn’t find anything that gave me exact percentages and other things
 
S

SBNDB

Well-Known Member
My question on the subject is , how long can the buffers in the soil (lime and whatever else) continue to successfully maintain the proper/desired ph?——-
Growing indoors typically means in containers and typically space is a concern so our containers often times have to be smaller(ish). A popular container size range is 5-7 gallons indoors. Lets say (since its a sort of widely used ,standard soil) fox farms ocean forest is the medium, in a 5 gallon container, how long will the soil with no added amendments be able to “correct” or maintain the ph when watering with 8-8.5ph water?

And is there a formula for the proper amount of dolomite lime to add to soil. Like 1 oz per gallon or whatever?
 
S

Soil Growth

Member
SBNDB said:
My question on the subject is , how long can the buffers in the soil (lime and whatever else) continue to successfully maintain the proper/desired ph?——-
Growing indoors typically means in containers and typically space is a concern so our containers often times have to be smaller(ish). A popular container size range is 5-7 gallons indoors. Lets say (since its a sort of widely used ,standard soil) fox farms ocean forest is the medium, in a 5 gallon container, how long will the soil with no added amendments be able to “correct” or maintain the ph when watering with 8-8.5ph water?

And is there a formula for the proper amount of dolomite lime to add to soil. Like 1 oz per gallon or whatever?
Click to expand...
1 Tablespoon, or 1/2 oz of dolomite lime per gallon of soil is pretty good.

5 gallons of Ocean Forest should probably go about a month. After that, I don't know if soil pH becomes a problem, or if it's lack of nutrients causing the problem. Either way, after about a month Ocean Forest (or most bagged soils) will need some help.
 
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