House and garden coco A+B different in europe, grow and bloom variations

Hi, i just discovered that house and garden runs two different types of coco A+B products. One is labeled as coco A+B Grow and the other coco A+B which is meant for flowering having an NPK ratio of A:3-0-0 B:1-3-6
Their various website has no feeding schedule info taking all these into account and its very easy for people to follow the feed programme of the US version of coco a+b which for the vegetative phase will easily lead to PK overfert or N deficiency. Given that i have way too many nutrients and dont want to invest in their grow version for the fast autos that i ve started growing i ll try and adjust the dosage of A and B and mix in some leftover of atami cocomax A+B to get to an NPK ratio for veg and then alter the dosage according to the plants needs. So i am thinking to feed for third week from seed as follows.
HG A (NPK 3-0-3) 6ml
HG B (NPK 1-3-6) 2ml
Atami Cocomax A(NPK 5-1-0) 3ML for 5liters of water and a ppm of about 700
If i am thinking correct that results in an NPK ratio of 35-9-30 or 3.88-1-3.33 wha t are your thoughts ? I realize that mixing nutrients might result in salt buildup so instead of my sulphur based ph- i will use apple vinegar which acts as a flushing agent. I ll monitor carefully several times a day measuring runoff to check hot it goes.

Why do you need a degree in mathematics to figure out how to fertilize? Ditch the chemicals and go with a inexpensive full spectrum liquid organic. Problem solved and no need to ph or ppm anything. KIS

You always need to PH and ppm on coco, i had failing meters in one of my grows and from 70g per auto plant i was bearly getting 30.

That is why pure coir sucks for newbies. Way too over complicated.

Its my forth grow so i m not a newbie but yes you have to think differently, the fact that you are using pots makes you think like soil. Its the nutrient companies that make it complicated with their stupid feeding advice and snake oil additives.

Follow this

https://www.rollitup.org/t/newbiequickstart-bulletproof-guide.864600/

H&G has Veg and Bloom separate only in the UK to my knowledge. Rest of Europe, most anyway, it's just one set of AB. The bloom version is specifically created for the UK market (not for US/Ca, Aus, NL).

I got a H&G starter kit years ago and just could't find the 'bloom/flower' bottle, thought something was missing... The whole veg vs flower nutes is nonsense unless the veg nutes contain really high N or really low P they can be used for flowering.

You don't need more N than K during flowering, but I agree 4-3-9 kinda sucks. 35-9-30 isn't ideal either though, I'd rather have 30-9-35. 4-3-5, 2-1-3, roughly... differs per medium even. H&G Aqua flakes and hydro is a little high on N for mediumless for example.

And get Nitric Acid for ph- down. While give you some N and make some of your tap's Ca available, ideal for coco. Depending on how hard your tapwater is and how much you need to lower it, it may actually work nicely with the H&G bloom AB especially later in flowering.

I know the formula is pretty good tor flowering, perhaps even without a PK addition though i have some 0-4-10 AN hammerhead. The issue is that their 4-3-9 is pretty bad for early veg, so i m doing my mix and match just for few weeks when they start to flower i ll change to pure HG A+B in equal ammounts. I have a PH- but its based on sulphuric acid . Also i am reusing coco and i m sure despite of flushing it has some old salts in it due to overfeeding in my last grow after my ppm meter broke. A bit of vinegar will help flush it might work better than flushing agents in fact. House and garden in europe has a root stimulator labeled root stimulator 1. Its price is 1/6th of their exceculator and works quite well, i m getting to think that both have same formula but exceculator is a bit more conventrated and has a flashy bottle. What NPK ratio do you think works best on coco for early-mid veg ? My Hesi enzymes are running out soon, shall i get some H&G enzymes or i should not worry about missing enzymes ?

Rory13 said:

I know the formula is pretty good tor flowering, perhaps even without a PK addition though i have some 0-4-10 AN hammerhead. The issue is that their 4-3-9 is pretty bad for early veg, so i m doing my mix and match just for few weeks when they start to flower i ll change to pure HG A+B in equal ammounts. I have a PH- but its based on sulphuric acid . Also i am reusing coco and i m sure despite of flushing it has some old salts in it due to overfeeding in my last grow after my ppm meter broke. A bit of vinegar will help flush it might work better than flushing agents in fact. House and garden in europe has a root stimulator labeled root stimulator 1. Its price is 1/6th of their exceculator and works quite well, i m getting to think that both have same formula but exceculator is a bit more conventrated and has a flashy bottle. What NPK ratio do you think works best on coco for early-mid veg ? My Hesi enzymes are running out soon, shall i get some H&G enzymes or i should not worry about missing enzymes ?

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Why is 4-3-9 bad for early veg. I See no problems with H&G in veg.

You see no problem in which house and garden product in veg ? In US version or UK/EU version ? The US NPK is pretty decent throughout but the UK you are supposed to use their coco Grow bottle which has higher N and lower K and then switch to 4-3-6 for flowering.

Rory13 said:

You see no problem in which house and garden product in veg ? In US version or UK/EU version ? The US NPK is pretty decent throughout but the UK you are supposed to use their coco Grow bottle which has higher N and lower K and then switch to 4-3-6 for flowering.

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none at all.

The only problem I have with H&G is the high N... Aqua is 5-3-8.

4-3-9 isn't bad per se, just unnecessarily high on K. Just as you use Atami A to adjust it, I use GH Bloom to adjust the ratio of Aqua Flakes during flowering.

Rory13 said:

My Hesi enzymes are running out soon, shall i get some H&G enzymes or i should not worry about missing enzymes ?

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Well, if you don't mind spending money on another bottle and want to add enzymes, get the Multizen. It's a veg additive that's high on N so could solve your issue, quite the effective veg nutes, too effective for me really, I'd avoid using it during transition.

Sativied said:

The only problem I have with H&G is the high N... Aqua is 5-3-8.

4-3-9 isn't bad per se, just unnecessarily high on K. Just as you use Atami A to adjust it, I use GH Bloom to adjust the ratio of Aqua Flakes during flowering.

Well, if you don't mind spending money on another bottle and want to add enzymes, get the Multizen. It's a veg additive that's high on N so could solve your issue, quite the effective veg nutes, too effective for me really, I'd avoid using it during transition.

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whats the npk of multi?

a mongo frog said:

whats the npk of multi?

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The label shows 0.2-0-0.3 thugh i m getting to believe you never really know for sure with their labels...

Rory13 said:

The label shows 0.2-0-0.3 thugh i m getting to believe you never really know for sure with their labels...

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haahaaa. thats funny. Sativied knows, i don't know why he aint saying. dudes like a nutrient expert.

a mongo frog said:

haahaaa. thats funny. Sativied knows, i don't know why he aint saying. dudes like a nutrient expert.

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Missed the notification of your quote, or updates to this thread...

I'm not a nutrient expert I started hydro with nearly the entire H&G line (no amino and a couple of others) and over several runs reduced the amount of bottle to two, A & B. That required taking a closer look at their products than just the fancy descriptions.

I do have a bottle of multizen again, but I use that mostly for clones and mothers and small experiments etc, it's not really part of my nutrient regime. I also use it for house plants, including a former soil plant in water in a transparent vase. A little experiment I started with cannazym but a bottle of that is gone in no time.

To answer your question... oh, bottle says "multizyme", I mixed those up more often, it's multizen in some countries... the NPK is 5-0-1. BUT, is derived from micros, vitamins, protein, nitric acid, potash AND phosphor acid. Supposedly helps clean up dead roots when flushing etc. It's nearly the only thing I give to rooted clones on soil I want to keep around for a while.

NPK is 0.5% - 0 - 0.1% of weight. Which isn't very concentrated, but only need very little (1ml per liter) and it seems quite aggressive on hydro. It's for roughly week 3-5, including transition. If I use it on hydro according to the H&G schedule (and put 50ml in a 50L/13gallon rez for 6 plants) during last week of transition too, I get super healthy green 'hemp'...

I love multizen. I use it in the first 4 weeks of flower and absolutely love it. After seeing what it does i dumped the whole roots excel thing. Can you talk a little about the bud xl when you get some time? Bud xl is not a booster right?

I have used bud XL on my last grow but i believe it only works if everything else is running 100% perfect, otherwise dont bother with it. Its supposed to be a flowering stimulator but its really tricky to find out exactly when to use it, they have so many flowering additives for specific weeks of flowering that it gets hard to distinguish which and when.

Rory13 said:

I have used bud XL on my last grow but i believe it only works if everything else is running 100% perfect, otherwise dont bother with it. Its supposed to be a flowering stimulator but its really tricky to find out exactly when to use it, they have so many flowering additives for specific weeks of flowering that it gets hard to distinguish which and when.

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Yea i agree. All those additives are so not needed.

For completeness, the N in multizen is nearly 90% nitric acid, the rest is ammonium nitrate.

a mongo frog said:

After seeing what it does i dumped the whole roots excel thing.

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As much as I thought I liked root excel initially, if it really does something more than perception, it's above all overpriced. Secret recipe stuff aka snake oil.

a mongo frog said:

I love multizen. I use it in the first 4 weeks of flower and absolutely love it. After seeing what it does i dumped the whole roots excel thing. Can you talk a little about the bud xl when you get some time? Bud xl is not a booster right?

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I remember posting about Bud XL a couple of years ago and Uncle Ben mentioned I might as well use a pinch of potassium nitrate and that having a similar NPK. Not entirely true although potassium nitrate would certainly be a better way to spend money.

Let me quote something from that discussion:

My point was not to recommend the product Bud XL, the funny thing is that Multi Enzym [never got the name right lol] (the main veg additive from H&G) contains the same NPK ratio as Bud XL (the till very last week bloom additive), as in high N and no P. They sort of cater to high P wanting customers with their Top Shooter and Shooting Powder (following Canna), but at the same time add enough N to prevent that high PK from messing up the plants as fast as with just Plant-Killer13/14.

It's indeed not the typical PK bloom booster. I see Multizym is 5-0-1 now but I'm sure I compared them several times back then and it was 4-0-1, just like Bud XL. I noticed there's a slight difference in NPK per country/region sometimes.

As Rory13 mentioned, the NPK means very little. Something about requiring some NPK ratio before it can be sold and certified as plant nutrients. By now I know Bud XL is even a bigger BS product than regular PK boosters. It contains vitamin B and E, sugars, and 'plant extracts'. Perhaps a soil grower may notice enough difference to buy it again but yeah, really not needed.

I've not noticed a decrease in quality (taste, smell, health) and quantity (yield and frost) going from nearly the complete line to only AB. Which in hindsight is like saying I didn't fall of the earth when I walked to the horizon (AB is complete).

H&G no longer supplies growshops in NL and as much as I like to complain about rip-off nutes frankly I'm quite happy I still have 2x5L AB and a bottle of multizen... will last me over a year. I use $20 H&G nutes for about a pound of bud.