How is Putin's military draft any different from a form of slavery ?

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rob Roy said:
It's very likely that competing service providers would have some forms of cooperation to accomodate this. Don't USPS and UPS cooperate on some things, even though they are competitors ?

Also, customer feedback, again. If your justice provider had a reputation for rendering good decisions, you'd probably like that they make an effort to work with other reputable service providers too.

It's not in the interest of a free market supplier to gain a reputation for thuggery. It's part of the business model for an unfree market "justice system" though.
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The merchant model fails for judicial systems. This is why you are noisily distracting from the question, because to answer it indicts your premise.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
The merchant model fails for judicial systems. This is why you are noisily distracting from the question, because to answer it indicts your premise.
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Any model could have bad actors, as in, the people within it.

A model where customer feedback is part of it, will fail less than a model where customer feedback is disregarded and the arbiter is part of a system that uses unjust means as a systemic corner stone.

There are no good judges in an unfree justice system, since they aren't paid because people clamor for their services, they are paid thru a confiscatory means. That is an indictment and a guilty sentence from the get go.

My premise isn't that a free market system for justice is infallible, it's that from the onset it's more just than the unfree market for justice that presently prevails. That is self evident, see the rapist / dating advice analogy above and then admit you wouldn't go to a rapist for dating advice...would you?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rob Roy said:
Any model could have bad actors, as in, the people within it.

A model where customer feedback is part of it, will fail less than a model where customer feedback is disregarded and the arbiter is part of a system that uses unjust means as a systemic corner stone.

There are no good judges in an unfree justice system, since they aren't paid because people clamor for their services, they are paid thru a confiscatory means. That is an indictment and a guilty sentence from the get go.

My premise isn't that a free market system for justice is infallible, it's that from the onset it's more just than the unfree market for justice that presently prevails. That is self evident, see the rapist / dating advice analogy above and then admit you wouldn't go to a rapist for dating advice...would you?
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No true Scotsman fallacy, again

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cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rob Roy said:
At least you didn't say "strawman" .

So, you would get dating advice from a rapist and would be okay with paying him his fee, which he decides the amount absent your input, whether you wanted his service or not ? You think that is a fine business model?
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You’re describing a merchant transaction.

As a goalpost move.

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Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
You’re describing a merchant transaction.

As a straw man.
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No, I'm describing a merchant transaction that has aspects of force to it, to elucidate that you, in those circumstances ( the rapey advisor) would not hire a thug...but in others you would .

The problem is in your head, two opposing ideas exist. That it's both bad and good to hire a thug. You exempt gov't. thuggery...why?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rob Roy said:
No, I'm describing a merchant transaction that has aspects of force to it, to elucidate that you, in those circumstances would not hire a thug...but in others you would .

The problem is in your head, two opposing ideas exist. That it's both bad and good to hire a thug. You exempt gov't. thuggery...why?
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aaaand there’s the straw man!

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Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
aaaand there’s the straw man!
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So, you admit, you DO exempt "government services" from any condemnation and think when they provide "services" force is okay and a good way to acquire customers ?

In the other part of your brain, you know you wouldn't want to be forced to pay a rapist for advice. That's how you buttress your argument, holding two opposing beliefs at once?

Not a strawman, evidence of you believing in two opposing things at once.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
aaaand there’s the straw man!

View attachment 5203767
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Being forced to pay a rapist for advice is bad. Being forced to use a forcible monopoly "justice system" is good. = You.

Aaaaand there's the problem with your lame argument, you both accept and reject an element of force in business relations from the get go.

Pick one please and don't hog both sides of the argument.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rob Roy said:
So, you admit, you DO exempt "government services" from any condemnation and think when they provide "services" force is okay and a good way to acquire customers ?

In the other part of your brain, you know you wouldn't want to be forced to pay a rapist for advice. That's how you buttress your argument, holding two opposing beliefs at once?

Not a strawman, evidence of you believing in two opposing things at once.
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Stop pretending that I am engaging your loaded goalpost move.

The question you refuse is the one that cannot be addressed as a merchant proposition.

Society is not a market.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rob Roy said:
Being forced to pay a rapist for advice is bad. Being forced to use a forcible monopoly "justice system" is good. = You.

Aaaaand there's the problem with your lame argument, you both accept and reject an element of force in business relations from the get go.

Pick one please and don't hog both sides of the argument.
Click to expand...
1664242682809.gif
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Society is not a market.
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Society is not a market is a non sequitur and dare I say, "a strawman".

Being able to chose a service provider that isn't one that uses coercion as it's primary business model IS an aspect of an ethical society.
Not being able to, and being forced to pay a rapist for advice whether you want to or not, is not a "society" based in anything good.

Anyhow, what does "society" have to do with providing services for rendering justice and restitution ? Society for the most part is a neutral / disinterested party if you and I have a dispute we need mediated. It's between us, usually, and we simply need somebody to judge what needs to happen. Who is in error, who gets restituted etc.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
The question you refuse is the one that cannot be addressed as a merchant proposition
[/QUOTE


The problem with your view is it champions a situation we ALREADY know is unjust and says that's superior to any other system in rendering justice.

There's that rapist again explaining his best pickup lines to you and you're dying to be his wingman!
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cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Rob Roy said:
Society is not a market is a non sequitur and dare I say, "a strawman".

Being able to chose a service provider that isn't one that uses coercion as it's primary business model IS an aspect of an ethical society.
Not being able to, and being forced to pay a rapist for advice whether you want to or not, is not a "society" based in anything good.

Anyhow, what does "society" have to do with providing services for rendering justice and restitution ? Society for the most part is a neutral / disinterested party if you and I have a dispute we need mediated. It's between us, usually, and we simply need somebody to judge what needs to happen. Who is in error, who gets restituted etc.
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1664243722577.gif
 
Dorian2

Dorian2

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
donald trump is the recipient of the Purple Heart.

“And I said, ‘Man, that’s like big stuff. I always wanted to get the Purple Heart,” Trump said. “This was much easier.”

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Was it deferred for bone spurs?

 
hillbill

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Conscription is what it is. Seems reasonable that a nation faced with the end of it’s existence should be able to use extreme measures for self preservation.
 
M

mooray

Well-Known Member
It's only a removal of freedom if you're a kid and you don't know about it. Otherwise, it's like jumping off a cliff and then being mad that you can't stop falling whenever you want. If you don't want the latter, then don't participate in the former. Having that choice beforehand is the exact opposite of slavery, or a removal of freedom. Actual slavery means you never had a choice.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
mooray said:
It's only a removal of freedom if you're a kid and you don't know about it. Otherwise, it's like jumping off a cliff and then being mad that you can't stop falling whenever you want. If you don't want the latter, then don't participate in the former. Having that choice beforehand is the exact opposite of slavery, or a removal of freedom. Actual slavery means you never had a choice.
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Actually, you can stop whenever you want. You do have to anticipate consequences. One of my favorite euphemisms is the term lithobraking.

lithobraking - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.m.wiktionary.org en.m.wiktionary.org

mooray said:
Wait...so your crimes would all have victims?
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There is a refreshing candor to that.
 
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