how long is too long for bubbling organic nutes?
- Thread starter wyteboi
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motoracer110
Well-Known Member
it depends on how big your plant is and how much water you are using. thats where the PPM meter comes in handy because you are able to closely watch how much nutrient is being used by your plants. I am getting about 3-4 days out of my plants water before i have to add more nutrients and water.
thebeerstalkin
Well-Known Member
bubble for at least 24 hours and don't keep it for more than 4 or 5 days. If it starts to smell rancid throw it out sooner because it means its become anaerobic or the bacteria has eaten up its resources
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
Thanks beer!
i read something about smell too, i just cant remember where. alot of folks bubble their nutes and have no idea why. alot of people think more o2 in the water=bigger flowers.....not true at all. so you think the "bad microbes" take over after 4 or 5 days?
i also read something about "foam" in the rez, do u know about that?
Thanks for any help guys!
im very old to growin but new to organics.
i still have alot to learn!
anything else i shoud know about bubbling the nutes please feel free to add.
(i use promix and it is somewhat sterile, so no beneficial bacteria at all)
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
i am in dirt but i bubble my food first........
i dont think a ppm/tds meter even works with organic food, but i may be wrong?
sagensour
Active Member
Sup Bud? Im bubbleing 1cup of dry VermiT compost, 1/2 strenghth Humboldts "Honey", AN Mother Earth Bloom and Liquid Karma. Im bubleing for no more than 48hrs. Yes my rez has foam. Weird. Surfactants I think. All bubbled in 5 gallons. I was told by a very reliable source that 48hrs bubbleing max w/ a lid on top of the bucket. He said bad bacteriaand fugi will breed after a couple days. After brew, put in the fridge for no more than a couple days.
By the way, If your useing all organics in the tea, a TDS/PPM meter doesnt really pick up organic material. I also PH my tea to close to nuetral.
Keepup the teas
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
Thanks man. so just a couple days then use or refrigerate for no more then a couple days? cool that makes sense , i have read so much about good microbes, but i cant find too much about teas and bubbling and why we bubble them(except recipes of course)
i am a very picky and "obsessed" with some things and i can read all day but it helps alot for someone real to help with comprehending my reading.....
Thanks sour!
wb
sagensour
Active Member
No prob. So from what I know, when we put air into the teas, it does a couple things, first being that the air agetates the bag to mix the solution and the second is that it wakes up the microbes by weathering them in water and air and food(mollasas). For some weird reason, if u do those things, the bacteria become "Alive". Dont ask me the exact process but the micros have to be woken up to eat before they even make a diffrence.
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
Very good post
i understand most of that but do think/know if the microbes eat in the tea and in the dirt?
also one more Q......i think
should i "stir" the tea up when feeding or should i leave the sediments on the bottom alone and then dump it out when i change the tank?
Thanks again sour!
wb
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
I wrote blue mountain organics a message regarding bubbling their microbes:
Dear blue_mtn_organics,
"How long do you think the microbes will stay alive after mixing into reservoir with bubbles? Will they die very fast or will they multiply? Thank you very much for help."
Their response:
"Once added to your reservior, the microorganisms in Super Plant Tonic will remain alive, and multiply as long as oxygen and a food source are available to them. Thank You for your inquiry."
So i am still researching in hope of finding more detailed info on teas and how they work.
Dear blue_mtn_organics,
"How long do you think the microbes will stay alive after mixing into reservoir with bubbles? Will they die very fast or will they multiply? Thank you very much for help."
Their response:
"Once added to your reservior, the microorganisms in Super Plant Tonic will remain alive, and multiply as long as oxygen and a food source are available to them. Thank You for your inquiry."
So i am still researching in hope of finding more detailed info on teas and how they work.
Thats good basic info. In general from research I have read or done compost teas (NOT GUANO... OR any other manure) Will usually last up to 48 hours. Studies have shown that at around the 36 hour mark is the peak timing for the bacteria with a good pump. I have also read if you just replensish the food source (ie molasses) and add more compost you can keep them bubbling as long as they have sufficient amounts of each to keep the tea from going anaerobic.
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
Nice Dog!
Do you have any links to this info ? I would love to see/read real studies. Most of the shit i can find on teas is just people growing dope and "guessing" that the teas go anaerobic after a few days, but hey i will read anything that has to do with microbes , even if it is just guessing. Hell i am not even sure that blue mountain knows. I wanna see real research. (that way we could all make those very expensive endo/ecto additives ourselves)
Do you know if the froth/foam that builds up after a day or two has anything to do with good bacteria? I will be getting a microscope soon to see what i can see
i am also thinking that a yeast or beer smell is good? any nasty or sulfer smell means bad?
Thanks Dog and everyone else for contributing!
wb
Most of your 'good' bacteria ARE anaerobic.Nice Dog!
Do you have any links to this info ? I would love to see/read real studies. Most of the shit i can find on teas is just people growing dope and "guessing" that the teas go anaerobic after a few days, but hey i will read anything that has to do with microbes , even if it is just guessing. Hell i am not even sure that blue mountain knows. I wanna see real research. (that way we could all make those very expensive endo/ecto additives ourselves)
Do you know if the froth/foam that builds up after a day or two has anything to do with good bacteria? I will be getting a microscope soon to see what i can see
i am also thinking that a yeast or beer smell is good? any nasty or sulfer smell means bad?
Thanks Dog and everyone else for contributing!
wb
That's why you need an air lock when fermenting wort (beer).As far as making your own, very easy and cheap.
I'm in a rush at the moment, but for starters, go to youtube and search:Bokashi, Making Bokashi, EM, EM-1, Activating EM.
EM= Efficient Micro Organisms
Bacteria is easy and cheap.
Mycorrhizae is not so easy, being a fungus. Seems that everyone who makes it is also heavy into mushrooms and that might be part of it. Much research has yielded very little as far as doing your own, unlike bacteria.
More later.
Wet
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
Thanks again for another great post wet!Most of your 'good' bacteria ARE anaerobic.
As far as making your own, very easy and cheap.
I'm in a rush at the moment, but for starters, go to youtube and search:Bokashi, Making Bokashi, EM, EM-1, Activating EM.
EM= Efficient Micro Organisms
Bacteria is easy and cheap.
Mycorrhizae is not so easy, being a fungus. Seems that everyone who makes it is also heavy into mushrooms and that might be part of it. Much research has yielded very little as far as doing your own, unlike bacteria.
More later.
Wet
From what i have took in from my studies, I read that the aerobic bacteria is the one we want most. (i think they are both "good" in one way or another ....i think)
For an anaerobic blend we would not use bubbles at all , would we ?
It gets confusing for sure.
To 'grow' the bacteria, like bokashi, activating EM, and even beer, this is all done under anaerobic conditions.
But, we certainly use them under aerobic conditions. Go figure!
I would figure that the anaerobic condition allows the good bacteria to reproduce with no competition until the food is exhausted and they go dormant. There is also no food for the bad bacteria to feed on if exposed to air.
Add a bit of molasses, they wake up, start reproducing and since the numbers are so great, reproduce faster than any bad bacteria that comes along.
The bad bacteria WILL come along, I'd bet that's why the sort of time limit on bubbling teas.
I ruined a batch of bokashi like this. Once it's mixed, it's supposed to stay sealed with no air for 2 weeks or longer, mainly till all the food (molasses), is consumed. You get nice white moldly looking stuff all through the wheat bran. I opened one early to get a handful, let some air in, and when I checked again, there was black mold on the top with the dreaded ammonia smell.
But, once it's done, molasses consumed, and the bacteria dormant, it can be dried and exposed to air with no ill effects.
Wet
To 'grow' the bacteria, like bokashi, activating EM, and even beer, this is all done under anaerobic conditions.
But, we certainly use them under aerobic conditions. Go figure!
I would figure that the anaerobic condition allows the good bacteria to reproduce with no competition until the food is exhausted and they go dormant. There is also no food for the bad bacteria to feed on if exposed to air.
Add a bit of molasses, they wake up, start reproducing and since the numbers are so great, reproduce faster than any bad bacteria that comes along.
The bad bacteria WILL come along, I'd bet that's why the sort of time limit on bubbling teas.
I ruined a batch of bokashi like this. Once it's mixed, it's supposed to stay sealed with no air for 2 weeks or longer, mainly till all the food (molasses), is consumed. You get nice white moldly looking stuff all through the wheat bran. I opened one early to get a handful, let some air in, and when I checked again, there was black mold on the top with the dreaded ammonia smell.
But, once it's done, molasses consumed, and the bacteria dormant, it can be dried and exposed to air with no ill effects.
Wet
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
Thanks wet , your post are very informativeIt gets confusing for sure.
To 'grow' the bacteria, like bokashi, activating EM, and even beer, this is all done under anaerobic conditions.
But, we certainly use them under aerobic conditions. Go figure!
I would figure that the anaerobic condition allows the good bacteria to reproduce with no competition until the food is exhausted and they go dormant. There is also no food for the bad bacteria to feed on if exposed to air.
Add a bit of molasses, they wake up, start reproducing and since the numbers are so great, reproduce faster than any bad bacteria that comes along.
The bad bacteria WILL come along, I'd bet that's why the sort of time limit on bubbling teas.
I ruined a batch of bokashi like this. Once it's mixed, it's supposed to stay sealed with no air for 2 weeks or longer, mainly till all the food (molasses), is consumed. You get nice white moldly looking stuff all through the wheat bran. I opened one early to get a handful, let some air in, and when I checked again, there was black mold on the top with the dreaded ammonia smell.
But, once it's done, molasses consumed, and the bacteria dormant, it can be dried and exposed to air with no ill effects.
Wet
I defiantly feel like a kid again , with having to re-learn everything i thought i knew.
Let me see if I can get you a link. I learned a lot about organic growing and compost tea from Icmag.Nice Dog!
Do you have any links to this info ? I would love to see/read real studies. Most of the shit i can find on teas is just people growing dope and "guessing" that the teas go anaerobic after a few days, but hey i will read anything that has to do with microbes , even if it is just guessing. Hell i am not even sure that blue mountain knows. I wanna see real research. (that way we could all make those very expensive endo/ecto additives ourselves)
Do you know if the froth/foam that builds up after a day or two has anything to do with good bacteria? I will be getting a microscope soon to see what i can see
i am also thinking that a yeast or beer smell is good? any nasty or sulfer smell means bad?
Thanks Dog and everyone else for contributing!
wb
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110620
There is a forum memeber there and his name is CT Guy. He has been studying and testing compost teas for years. This guy knows his stuff when it comes to the bacteria as he always tests it with microscopes. (Helps that it is his job too...lol)
That whole forum section is great info on organics btw.
CT Guy has stated numerous times that foaming has no effect what so ever on the bacterial make up of the tea, It's more about the right temps (room temp is fine) and the amount of air you are pushing. He really recommends a pretty powerful type pump to get the surface tension of the water moving.
If you are making a mess you can add a few drops of vegtable oil in the tea and it will stop the foaming, with no ill effects to the tea or plant itself.
Hope this helps.
Nice posts btw Wetdog, I think you explained it much better then I ever could. lol
i'm pretty new to to teas, been brewing for about a year
done 2 different ones, bone meal tea and alfalfa tea
interesting thing here is one of the teas seems to stay good forever(bone meal)
while the alfalfa tea will start going bad after 2 weeks
these are aerated teas(just by shaking)
i judge bad by foul odor(which means really foul)
done 2 different ones, bone meal tea and alfalfa tea
interesting thing here is one of the teas seems to stay good forever(bone meal)
while the alfalfa tea will start going bad after 2 weeks
these are aerated teas(just by shaking)
i judge bad by foul odor(which means really foul)
nugbuckets
Well-Known Member
this is my set-up.....5 gal, and an air-mattress inflator on a lawnmower battery. Add my goodies, and H2O, bubble it twice a day( few minutes, it really bubbles like a mutha) for three four days, then PHed, then feed. Peace, Nugs