How many innocent lives are your guns worth?

canndo said:

That is exactly how it would happen. Who are you going to shoot at when your bank account is drained? When a your water is turned off?

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There you go not making sense again.

Sooner or later the bank is going to want their house back. I have cash, gold, a water purifier, and a generator. I can live in my house forever. Problem is, I can't pay the bank. Who will the bank send to get their property back?

Now, I already know your response since we had this exact exchange of words a few months ago. You will say that it is not the government coming at you with guns...it's the bank.


Then, I will say that the bank is coming in direct response to not handing over your guns. I will then say that someone wearing jackboots eventually WILL come to your house.

You will then agree with me just like you did a few months ago...

I love it when canndo argues a point that he conceeded months before...

Doer said:

Boy, you have brain fog., Had you let it go farther, there would be guns and you know it. You seem to be trying to Pap us with this idea that the govt doesn't need guns and so doesn't need guns to enforce gun limits. So you are being full of shit.

Force and threat of deadly force is how this REALLY, REALLY works, bubble boy.

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Somewhere along the line there may have been folks with guns - at one point or another but there were not - and in most instances there are not, there cannot be because there aren't enough people with guns in order to enforce each and every law with a guy, and a backup going to each door.


Admit that, you do not pay your taxes because you are afraid someone with a gun will come at you, you pay because you are afraid of being ostracized from your community and deprived of your possessions. Some have no fear of that, mostly they are dealt with with force.

or are all you folks really that worried about the jack boots? is that why you cling so precariously to each and every weapon? Is that how you actually see the world around you? as an us against them jungle where if you don't have the firepower they have you aren't really safe?


All the while you are being taken advantage of by big business and big government - as you protect your weapons and quietly relinquish all of your other rights?


and you claim I'm in the bubble.

No. Here's how it will happen in this 50/50 federated crazy land. At some point, a rural county will impact suburban urban spread. Vote counting on a gun control issue will not be handled correctly. The county will have reached to far. The State will turn a blind eye and right minded people will use force. People are hurt. A big confrontation ensures. Federal troops. The issue is adjudicated and the 2nd A, prevails. The County officials and the State were regulated by the citizens.

It has already happened once in the 20th Century. The reason this incremental-ism is working is because of exclusion of a few. At some point it tips and becomes blanket prohibition and we will know why there is the 2nd.

The Agenda is just what you say and you wish to lull us with "you don't stand a chance. now is the time to be reasonable."

kelly4 said:

There you go not making sense again.

Sooner or later the bank is going to want their house back. I have cash, gold, a water purifier, and a generator. I can live in my house forever. Problem is, I can't pay the bank. Who will the bank send to get their property back?

Now, I already know your response since we had this exact exchange of words a few months ago. You will say that it is not the government coming at you with guns...it's the bank.


Then, I will say that the bank is coming in direct response to not handing over your guns. I will then say that someone wearing jackboots eventually WILL come to your house.

You will then agree with me just like you did a few months ago...

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Yep, if you have food and gold and all the rest, then the bank will make a decision and it very well may be that it sends someone with the capacity for lethal force. Fine - now point around at all your gun owning brethren and show me how much gold they have in their basement, how much food, how much water (oh, I forgot, they have a well).

Millions of homes have been forclosed in the recent past, few of those foreclosures ended in gunfights.


Guns are the very worst guarantee of your rights but you folks refuse to accept it.

canndo said:

Yep, if you have food and gold and all the rest, then the bank will make a decision and it very well may be that it sends someone with the capacity for lethal force. Fine - now point around at all your gun owning brethren and show me how much gold they have in their basement, how much food, how much water (oh, I forgot, they have a well).

Millions of homes have been forclosed in the recent past, few of those foreclosures ended in gunfights.


Guns are the very worst guarantee of your rights but you folks refuse to accept it.

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If guns are the worst what is the best guarantee of my rights??

And if one of my rights is to keep and bear arms....WTF??

canndo said:

Somewhere along the line there may have been folks with guns - at one point or another but there were not - and in most instances there are not, there cannot be because there aren't enough people with guns in order to enforce each and every law with a guy, and a backup going to each door.


Admit that, you do not pay your taxes because you are afraid someone with a gun will come at you, you pay because you are afraid of being ostracized from your community and deprived of your possessions. Some have no fear of that, mostly they are dealt with with force.

or are all you folks really that worried about the jack boots? is that why you cling so precariously to each and every weapon? Is that how you actually see the world around you? as an us against them jungle where if you don't have the firepower they have you aren't really safe?


All the while you are being taken advantage of by big business and big government - as you protect your weapons and quietly relinquish all of your other rights?


and you claim I'm in the bubble.

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Well, we cling to our guns, bubble boy, because we uphold the Constitution. No big thing. It won't get to jack boots, because of the 2nd, Fritz.

And you say it, we are already in the war, they do have more fire power, we are limited, but we are invisible and asymmetric, unlike your perfect bubble. And you will be the illegal govt when we the people say so.

You sound like Tokyo Rose. "Give up, GI. We will feed you. We mean you no harm." Just as your Lt's. head rolls by.

And really, I'm not afraid of the govt. We the people. I'm afraid of you dreamers and your cultish dogma.
But, the 2nd, let's me be ready.

canndo said:

Millions of homes have been forclosed in the recent past, few of those foreclosures ended in gunfights.

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How many of those foreclosures were due to the government ignoring the Constitution and coming to take someones guns?

There you go not making sense again...

kelly4 said:

How many of those foreclosures were due to the government ignoring the Constitution and coming to take someones guns?

There you go not making sense again...

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All foreclosures are due to non-payment.

Either non-payment to the bank or non-payment to the government...

In either case the local law enforcement will evict you live or dead.

canndo said:

Yep, if you have food and gold and all the rest, then the bank will make a decision and it very well may be that it sends someone with the capacity for lethal force. Fine - now point around at all your gun owning brethren and show me how much gold they have in their basement, how much food, how much water (oh, I forgot, they have a well).

Millions of homes have been forclosed in the recent past, few of those foreclosures ended in gunfights.


Guns are the very worst guarantee of your rights but you folks refuse to accept it.

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Water is sorted here, food is low in long-store setup, but if I had a neighbor like kelly4, would be willing to barter for food with ammo - at the point guns are outlawed, ammo is a commodity and is as good as gold.

canndo said:

No, they are not and usually now anyway they are controlled with non lethal weapons. Again Rob, you wish for a world without consequences - there is no such place.

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Nope. I wish for a world without the initiation of aggression, leaving others alone etc. Whether the control is begun with a nonlethal weapon or not, noncompliance with an edict brings out the gun doesn't it? Shouldn't interactions be on a consensual basis?

No again, I'm all about consequences and holding those who want to run others lives accountable. Why do you grant exceptions to the people who think your life and mine is there's to determine?

canndo said:

All the while you are being taken advantage of by big business and big government - as you protect your weapons and quietly relinquish all of your other rights?

and you claim I'm in the bubble.

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I'd like to protect all of my other rights too. For me personally i don't NEED weapons but I have enough respect for your freedom that I don't feel the need to limit what you can own. Or place limits on what you already own.

I saw you make an earlier post where the founders intention of the 2nd to protect yourself against the government no longer applies. The very basic right the 2nd protects is the right to defend myself. It doesn't matter if I need to defend myself against our government, another government or a pack of dogs, the next door neighbor, the crack head around the corner, the gas station attendant, the tax collector, the K-9 unit, aliens, zombies etc..

You have no right to limit my ability to defend myself. I may be able to do it with a dog and an axe but my grandmother or 18 year old niece may not be. You are trying to limit her rights too. It really is selfish and disgusting when you get right down to it. You want to decide how my granny can and can't defend herself. All because you think you know best and what she needs or doesn't need.

canndo said:

Of course there is one more thing - your having been served with a restraining order, whereupon after a hearing you will be asked to surrender your weapons - forthwith - in many states - including mine.

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When somebody "asks" a person to do something, it implies they may do it or not without fear of a consequence. When you use the word "ask" above what you really should say is "demand". Government wordsmithing has crept into the standard lexicon, let's not help them out by allowing them to recreate the meanings of words eh?

canndo said:

Yep, if you have food and gold and all the rest, then the bank will make a decision and it very well may be that it sends someone with the capacity for lethal force. Fine - now point around at all your gun owning brethren and show me how much gold they have in their basement, how much food, how much water (oh, I forgot, they have a well).

Millions of homes have been forclosed in the recent past, few of those foreclosures ended in gunfights.

Guns are the very worst guarantee of your rights but you folks refuse to accept it.

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Wow, you won't admit that lethal force is the way of the entire world, including banks. Guns guarantee our Right to keep and bear Arms. The govt isn't against us, you are.

And I'm suspecting you are not being genuine, ie trolling. Those that didn't vacate their foreclosed homes were forced out by the County Sheriff. And some few ended in gunfire. Suicide by Cop. How do you breath in that thing?

I agree. Lethal force is the way of the world. Wish it wasn't but it is.

I would like to add that while I was in the gun store today...

At least 1/2 of the shooters or buyers were women. including one slim cutie that must have not been more than 20 and several elderly women.

Guns are the great equalizer for those people. Why do you want to create more victims in society Cannado?

bde0001 said:

I agree. Lethal force is the way of the world. Wish it wasn't but it is.

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In a world of competition for limited resources it will always be the case.

bde0001 said:

I agree. Lethal force is the way of the world. Wish it wasn't but it is.

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All it takes to meet your wishes is do not be the person that supports or initiates aggression against others. If I were a genie, you would now have 2 more wishes.

Rob Roy said:

All it takes to meet your wishes is do not be the person that supports or initiates aggression against others. If I were a genie, you would now have 2 more wishes.

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All that is required for evil to spread is for good men to do nothing (paraphrased)

They can Never take our guns away , Never ever !

Let's put it this way. If I had a Phaser set to stun, and it worked 100%, I'd have no reason whatsoever to set it to kill. And I would not.

But, if the govt did not let me have a kill setting that would be infringement, if those were the Arms of the day.

In that case, I would favor a contemplative lock out, to make it a conscious, yet very illegal act, to set it to kill. An ipso facto proof of intent to kill.

But, no lock for stun, open carry etc. Lots of laws already about when and how to use stun gun or pepper spray, for example, which I'm never without.