How much does genetics really matter for seeds? How much of it is a scam?

DanKiller

DanKiller

Well-Known Member
natureboygrower said:
Why don't you put some work in, find some reputable breeders and do like the rest of us. Maybe you should be buying $500 clones for the "fire" you're looking for.

Also, with all your wisdom, could you please tell me when all these magical packs of fire disappeared? More than 8 years ago you say?
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I am doing the research believe me.
I can't say I ran every breeder and every strain, stuff are still out there waiting to be found, I call it shitty breeders and bad luck so far, but mostly shitty breeders that don't do the work as it's so obvious and out there.
If my outdoor bud bagseed is better than all the genetics I ran in the last 2 years, that says something.
Now we are in to some more experienced and expensive breeders, maybe there's some hope there ? I don't know, but I will check.
We don't have clones for sale where I come from, if we had, believe me I wouldn't buy seeds.

They didn't disappear just like the elite clones are still out there, I said the chances of you hitting something that will even come to the breeders intent today is very rare.
When you work your lines, you increase your chances that the end product (the seeds) will be uniform in the direction of your selections, the more the better, each generation if done well will increase chances and consistent results.
 
Star Dog

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
Idk what's to blame it could be me, it could be my growing, it could be genetics have changed, idk?

I do know it's taken me the best part of 4 years of perpetual growing to find a handful of plants worth growing again, actually it's less than a handful I got two of my keepers as clones so really I averaged less than one keeper a year from reputable seeds.

Most of what I've grown was acceptable but imo not special.
You can only grow so much "not special" then you need a plan to get through as many testers as possible.

At the end I flowered 2 per pot to find as many potential keeper's, I also vegged on 12-12 and had them ready to flower each time a crop was finished flowering.

Tf it's over it was truly fkg horrible I don't envy anyone hunting for that something special.
 
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smokerjimbob

Well-Known Member
When I ask a grower who claims to have been growing for the last 20 years if she has any kind or high end stuff, she always doesn't answer.

What we see and smoke in the market today is really what's out there I believe. People say there is still fire around, claims to have smoked it, etc.

I haven't smoked any real high end cannibas since 2019 and that was from a corporate brand, Canndescent, which went out of business.

If it's supposedly out there, no one is growing the shit. Everything you run into is schwag/mid weed with exotic names like Potion D'Amour, Larry's Unicorn, etc.

Just a marketing game now.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
smokerjimbob said:
When I ask a grower who claims to have been growing for the last 20 years if she has any kind or high end stuff, she always doesn't answer.

What we see and smoke in the market today is really what's out there I believe. People say there is still fire around, claims to have smoked it, etc.

I haven't smoked any real high end cannibas since 2019 and that was from a corporate brand, Canndescent, which went out of business.

If it's supposedly out there, no one is growing the shit. Everything you run into is schwag/mid weed with exotic names like Potion D'Amour, Larry's Unicorn, etc.

Just a marketing game now.
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Mr.Nice SSH
 
Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
smokerjimbob said:
When I ask a grower who claims to have been growing for the last 20 years if she has any kind or high end stuff, she always doesn't answer.

What we see and smoke in the market today is really what's out there I believe. People say there is still fire around, claims to have smoked it, etc.

I haven't smoked any real high end cannibas since 2019 and that was from a corporate brand, Canndescent, which went out of business.

If it's supposedly out there, no one is growing the shit. Everything you run into is schwag/mid weed with exotic names like Potion D'Amour, Larry's Unicorn, etc.

Just a marketing game now.
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I don't think you've exhausted all your options though, so while I understand that you're frustrated, I think you should channel that into researching pedigree. I've communicated with too many life time smokers and 30+ year growers to believe all of it is shit. People don't dedicate their lives to producing shit weed, especially through the height of prohibition. Abandon the new stuff, look to the old school. Lots of cats out there working with older gear.
 
DanKiller

DanKiller

Well-Known Member
Of course it will degrade the gene pool, but degrade what ? Genes you sorted out of the gene pool whether by selection for certain traits and ignoring others or by intent or just pesky genes that are linked to other traits you desire and can't be bred out...
Everything is selection, but balance is key.
Open pollination will reserve all the genes in that field continuesly
 
8Rhizome8

8Rhizome8

Member
No idea if this helps but I have to agree with Tolerance Break in that it’s all in what you’re looking for. Different people like different aspects of a high. Or no high at all in some cases. Somebody’s tasty old Mexican that exhibits a gentle high and body relaxation might be all that one needs.

Amongst those within my library is a 1986 Guatemalan sativa that I got and grew-out from bag seed in high school. Seeds in the 80’s were a thing from the dime bag you got off that longhaired toothless guy standing in the 7-Eleven parking lot by the gas station. Or at least in Covina, California. Over the years though she’s proven to be a real peach and I can only assume that she was someone’s stable breed.

She’s got this uppity psychoactive high about her with no conceivable ceiling. However high is however many hits you take and she’s predictable. Beautiful plant that I’ve bred to F19.

I encourage that we each behold our own palate of desire and individually know what we’re looking for. It is my opinion and offering that genetics do indeed matter. My Guatemalan is living proof of simple as opposed to complex interbreeding. Which, don’t get me wrong, I have bred-out quite a few of my own lineages. Yet the Guatemalan to this day trumps the headiest of dispensary offerings.
 
Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
8Rhizome8 said:
No idea if this helps but I have to agree with Tolerance Break in that it’s all in what you’re looking for. Different people like different aspects of a high. Or no high at all in some cases. Somebody’s tasty old Mexican that exhibits a gentle high and body relaxation might be all that one needs.

Amongst those within my library is a 1986 Guatemalan sativa that I got and grew-out from bag seed in high school. Seeds in the 80’s were a thing from the dime bag you got off that longhaired toothless guy standing in the 7-Eleven parking lot by the gas station. Or at least in Covina, California. Over the years though she’s proven to be a real peach and I can only assume that she was someone’s stable breed.

She’s got this uppity psychoactive high about her with no conceivable ceiling. However high is however many hits you take and she’s predictable. Beautiful plant that I’ve bred to F19.

I encourage that we each behold our own palate of desire and individually know what we’re looking for. It is my opinion and offering that genetics do indeed matter. My Guatemalan is living proof of simple as opposed to complex interbreeding. Which, don’t get me wrong, I have bred-out quite a few of my own lineages. Yet the Guatemalan to this day trumps the headiest of dispensary offerings.
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God damn, that guatemalan sounds like a thing of beauty, almost exactly what Im searching for in the sativas I am hunting. Kudos to you for all the work you put in to keeping that line going.
 
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smokerjimbob

Well-Known Member
I don't doubt the bagseed story of the weed being better. It's just a damn marketing game. Why bother calling seed strains fancy names if it's just schwag. We need to call out all distributors and sellers of seeds / weed who sell subpar shit. The Internet has allowed products to be fire not from the smoke but from the name and branding. The products will not live up to the hype.

People are too generous and forgiving about product and quality nowadays. They will be motivated to buy anything from labeling, suspect reviews, and are rather compliant even if the product is average at best. The bar for fire has gotten way too low. People who are under 30 cannot possibly have experienced real fire.

Call out the purveyors of bad product, which nowadays is 100% of the market. This is the only way to weed out the profiteers who are responsible for pumping out the bad stuff. Let the Internet be the mouthpiece for the market to speak its mind. Put your foot down and call out the people who have diluted the weed market beyond recognition.
 
Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
smokerjimbob said:
I don't doubt the bagseed story of the weed being better. It's just a damn marketing game. Why bother calling seed strains fancy names if it's just schwag. We need to call out all distributors and sellers of seeds / weed who sell subpar shit. The Internet has allowed products to be fire not from the smoke but from the name and branding. The products will not live up to the hype.

People are too generous and forgiving about product and quality nowadays. They will be motivated to buy anything from labeling, suspect reviews, and are rather compliant even if the product is average at best. The bar for fire has gotten way too low. People who are under 30 cannot possibly have experienced real fire.

Call out the purveyors of bad product, which nowadays is 100% of the market. This is the only way to weed out the profiteers who are responsible for pumping out the bad stuff. Let the Internet be the mouthpiece for the market to speak its mind. Put your foot down and call out the people who have diluted the weed market beyond recognition.
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I think you're preaching to the choir. By simply being on a forum, you're among a small percentage of folk who care enough to be involved in an online community.

What you're describing exists, we have breeder threads for the good and the bad.

Like, mean genes piescream has a terrible Herm problem, but his dub lime, cherry, and other lines are all pretty well regarded.

I don't want more negativity personally. I hold people accountable with my purchase discretion. There's enough hate in the world, I like showing love to the people who put the work in, and holding them accountable for the good and the bad.
 
S

smokerjimbob

Well-Known Member
There's a lot of people here who think the weed they grow is pretty good. Taste is a matter of preference but I think even the public knows what is good shit.

I think there are a handful of people who are likely older and have smoked varieties of weed throughout the years both good and bad in RIU

On the other hand I also believe there are many not as experience weed smokers who have not experienced truly great dank weed but are weaned off the legal cannibas market. Or they have lived in areas of the country that have typically had poor regional marijuana markets.

Anyways no matter what our eye for taste is how much of a connoisseur we are if we don't call out bad shit when we run into it the bad shit will be continued to be bought.

I actually think RIU is one of the biggest advertising vehicles for seed strain sellers. Did you buy a pack of seed because someone here said it was fire? I know I did. I wonder how many of those people are not in some way also affiliated somehow with the seller. But we can't all just have marketer's. If the shit was actually good I wouldn't complain. Someone can call something fire all day long and if it is more power to them. On the other hand we need people that are real and will save people from getting scammed just as much. Doing so would make the quality of the weed and seeds in the market so much better.
 
Trap Star

Trap Star

Well-Known Member
I just went through 158 pages of Shoreline genetics thread here on RIU ...an it appears that he is one of the few pumping out pure skunk terps...

It's crazy how we all look for skunk terps but they have been under our nose for so long.

I personally will use RIU reviews to buy seeds...
It is one thing to find a reputable seed supplier
It's another to find one with killer genetics

As for finding fire....
If I couldn't find decent flower...
I would try mega edibles

I find that I can stay high for a full 8 hours off the right amount of edibles
Not just buzzed but STONED!!

Fuck with edibles bro
 
Trap Star

Trap Star

Well-Known Member
I'm all about busting bonk seed vendors out...
Wack shit is wack shit...
Call it like it is...

"Bro xyz was not fire
Shit was trash
I grew out the whole pack...shit was weak sauce"

that never hurt the grow community
I have dodge a few bullets because of honest strain reviews

At the same time, I hear @Tolerance Break
After reading so many threads the hate gets old as fuck. It's like damn you didn't get Fire...express & move the fuck on. Drama over all type of shit.
Pages of it...like damn.
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
Unga Bunga said:
Anyone else ever wonder if open pollination vs continuous selection of one male and one female has led to degradation of the gene pool ?
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Thing most forget is that the male contributes slightly more genes than the female does in cannabis so plenty of males is a good idea the way we breed now isnt breeding its targeted pollen chucking for the most part we cant run the numbers to do it right in time that will change though slowly but surely
 
MissinThe90’sStrains

MissinThe90’sStrains

Well-Known Member
The barrier for entry to becoming a “breeder” is low nowadays. I try to support the people who have been doing it for at least a decade or longer, and have a solid reputation from other breeders. If someone has good genes, other breeders will trade with them and breed with it, continuing the line. Also, some crosses work better together than others. It’s important that seed batches have been proven/tested before being sold. I read reviews, and don’t buy new “hype” stuff. I buy old and tested stuff.

Look for: proven genetic history, good track record from the breeder, and a good standing in the community among other breeders/other breeders have good opinions of them. Listen to interviews, listen to the breeder critique their own work, and listen to what they like to personally smoke/work with. If I’m looking for a strong indica, I’d ask someone like Bob Hemphill from Crickets and Cicada seeds, because he basically smokes strong indicas from his bong all day long. That’s his thing - his passion, his work, his preference. If I want a sativa that’s pretty unique but not a landrace still well worked, I’d look at The Rev from KOS or GooeyBreeder. Both like working those tyoes of lines, and both are proven over time.
 
conor c

conor c

Well-Known Member
smokerjimbob said:
There's a lot of people here who think the weed they grow is pretty good. Taste is a matter of preference but I think even the public knows what is good shit.

I think there are a handful of people who are likely older and have smoked varieties of weed throughout the years both good and bad in RIU

On the other hand I also believe there are many not as experience weed smokers who have not experienced truly great dank weed but are weaned off the legal cannibas market. Or they have lived in areas of the country that have typically had poor regional marijuana markets.

Anyways no matter what our eye for taste is how much of a connoisseur we are if we don't call out bad shit when we run into it the bad shit will be continued to be bought.

I actually think RIU is one of the biggest advertising vehicles for seed strain sellers. Did you buy a pack of seed because someone here said it was fire? I know I did. I wonder how many of those people are not in some way also affiliated somehow with the seller. But we can't all just have marketer's. If the shit was actually good I wouldn't complain. Someone can call something fire all day long and if it is more power to them. On the other hand we need people that are real and will save people from getting scammed just as much. Doing so would make the quality of the weed and seeds in the market so much better.
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Do you do alot of dabs by any chance? I ask cos that majorly fucks with tolerance especially for flower idk so if u sure nothing is what u want might be time to just turn everything you grow into dry sift hash do it right you will definitely be stoned bud
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
conor c said:
Thing most forget is that the male contributes slightly more genes than the female does in cannabis so plenty of males is a good idea the way we breed now isnt breeding its targeted pollen chucking for the most part we cant run the numbers to do it right in time that will change though slowly but surely
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That's why my first run of any cannabis I'm considering breeding is a preservation run. I do an open table pollination of all males/females so I can preserve the maximum genetics available. Then you run some larger tables to find out how many specific types it has (if they can even all be identified) and how prevalent what you're looking for is and which type(s) has/have it. Then selection begins :)

But the smoking never ends :eyesmoke: best hobby ever!
 
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