How would you improve public education?

Pay teachers more. Get rid of tenure. Have actually decent degrees and programs to prepare teachers to teach. Give inner cities and poorer areas the same quality schools as wealthy areas. Make teachers rotate the schools they teach at, just like they should make police rotate the areas they patrol.

Rob Roy said:

1) Cease funding them via force, forced funding of something a person has no choice in, is by definition extortion

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Makes sense, but you're over simplifying "forceable coercion".

Rob Roy said:

2) "allow" competitive models to exist, in a free market environment, competition increases innovation

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Totally agree

Rob Roy said:

3) get government out of it, since a forcibly mandated "education" is a misnomer, it's really an indoctrination

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Alabama, Mississippi, Arizona and New Mexico all said the same thing. Now the dumbest people in the country are "educated" in these aforementioned states. So much for that theory.

Rob Roy said:

4) Dig up Horace Mann and give him a posthumous hanging

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You're being silly.

HandyGringo said:

. I would rework math to be focused on things you can actually use in your day to day life.

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i remember when all my math teachers used to say "you wont have a calculator with you everyday so you need to learn this stuff"
LOOK AT ME NOW BITCH!!!

rkymtnman said:

nobody requires you to pay taxes, you do voluntarily.

ask wesley snipes how not paying worked out for him.

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Well that's exactly what Rob is arguing. He is arguing because Wesley is punished for the choice he made to not pay taxes, he is essentially being extorted.

A better argument is to say, Wesley has a choice in paying taxes and remaining a citizen and have what little remaining freedom he has under his Constitution, or not pay taxes and get out. Which then would not be extortion, but rather given a choice.

spandy said:

No, public school.

Each teacher is so drastically different. Go from one teacher that gets it done inside the school hours and the class as a whole does very well on standardized testing, then the same group of kids the following year with a different teacher who loads them down with homework and their scores drop.

Thinking some of these teachers aren't really teaching.

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Makes sense. But who's fault is that? And how do we fix it?

Force a strict curriculum? Get parents more involved? Pay teachers more so they stick around?

HandyGringo said:

Put a break between every class, remove religion and put as a subject in history class. I would rework math to be focused on things you can actually use in your day to day life. Taxes, how businesses work etc. Perhaps rework all classes so it's applicable to the real world.

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We could teach everything vocational. There won't be any American breakthroughs in science or math but those don't really mean anything. Somebody else will do it.

see4 said:

Well that's exactly what Rob is arguing. He is arguing because Wesley is punished for the choice he made to not pay taxes, he is essentially being extorted.

A better argument is to say, Wesley has a choice in paying taxes and remaining a citizen and have what little remaining freedom he has under his Constitution, or not pay taxes and get out. Which then would not be extortion, but rather given a choice.

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If hypothetically he renounces his citizenship and doesn't attain citizenship elsewhere does that mean the law doesn't protect him and they can go all "Guantanamo" on him?

Padawanbater2 said:

Cost is not an issue. If it were up to you, what changes would you implement to improve the quality of public education?

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K-6 - Schools require students to attend a classroom setting, follow a strict curriculum that is voted on by the Board of Education and the PTA, allowing parents to be more involved.
7-12 - Schools are more like college, kids can choose their education path but have to stick to a core curriculum. And as above, BoE and PTA agree on entire curriculum.

Get religion out of schools. No more pledge of allegiance, no more "if natural selection, then creationism" nonsense.

Pay teachers more. But require a more strict requirement to become a teacher. Perhaps a teacher residency?

Shrink class size down to 1:20, allow children to receive individual attention when needed.

SneekyNinja said:

If hypothetically he renounces his citizenship and doesn't attain citizenship elsewhere does that mean the law doesn't protect him and they can go all "Guantanamo" on him?

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If he renounces his citizenship, he still owes the prior taxes. But now that he no longer earns a living as a US citizen he is no longer governed by IRS regulations and therefore does not pay taxes on any money earned. Not sure what Guantanamo has to do with anything.

see4 said:

Makes sense. But who's fault is that? And how do we fix it?

Force a strict curriculum? Get parents more involved? Pay teachers more so they stick around?

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Hands down parental involvement. But good fucking luck. Ever been to a PTA meeting? Most parents haven't it seems. Ridiculous when you go to a meeting where about 200 kids are being represented, and only 15-20 parents show up. No fucks given apparently.

Teacher pay should be the same regardless what school they teach in. If work load is the same, doesn't matter if you are instructing at the rich kid school or the poor house, your salary shouldn't be better/worse.

Curriculum should be pretty even across the boards regardless who what when and where.

I see your post about a 1:20 classroom. Agree. I have a child in a 1:19 setting and one in a 1:32 setting. Couple weeks in and its obvious which teachers are providing the one on one. The both would do well regardless, but that is not the story for many kids. Large classrooms can lead to a child not getting the education they need and a repeat is forced on them.

srh88 said:

i remember when all my math teachers used to say "you wont have a calculator with you everyday so you need to learn this stuff"
LOOK AT ME NOW BITCH!!!

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I remember being told that I needed to know how to use a graphing calculator in and out or I wouldn't be useful in the work force when i was an adult.

And yet todays youth can't tell me what my change is going to be without their cash register telling them exactly what to do. The look of horror on a millennials face when they punch in the wrong numbers and hit cash before correcting it is priceless. "Uh, can I get a manager to register 4 please..."

see4 said:

Well that's exactly what Rob is arguing. He is arguing because Wesley is punished for the choice he made to not pay taxes, he is essentially being extorted.

A better argument is to say, Wesley has a choice in paying taxes and remaining a citizen and have what little remaining freedom he has under his Constitution, or not pay taxes and get out. Which then would not be extortion, but rather given a choice.

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good point. i'd like to see Rob move to another country that has no taxes and then he won't feel like he is being extorted.

you could also not pay taxes here. just have no footprint. if they can't find ya, they can't jail ya. can't own a home, have a job, etc though.

Unclebaldrick said:

We could teach everything vocational. There won't be any American breakthroughs in science or math but those don't really mean anything. Somebody else will do it.

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I'm talking about elementary school where kids are being taught. Might as well teach them basic things. Then if they take a liking to math they can take it in high school or college where the classes get more specific.. No one makes breakthroughs in elementary school, yet we're trying to cram their heads with knowledge that is too advanced for them.

one definate way to help education is to SLATHER danica patrick in baby oil and ride that thing till the wheels fall off. Then buy all kids encyclopedia's from the profits the movies we made of it brought in.
#goodtimes

Segregation.

And not in a racist way.

The world needs ditch diggers and do we really need some dumbass slowing down those who are bored with the repetitive crap.

I say leave a child behind if he/she can't keep up. Why slow down everyone else. It may sound cruel but hey, such is life.

i think the curriculum should be mandatory but not the time. those who learn slowly can do the k-12 thing, but those who thrive and excel should be aloud to complete curriculum and move to the next. then we can get the quick kids out faster, and spend time on those who may need a little more guidance and hands-on instruction.

one curriculum, self paced, to be completed by age 18 (but can be earned much earlier, giving an aspiring, hard-working student a chance to rise above while no child gets left behind.)

see4 said:

If he renounces his citizenship, he still owes the prior taxes. But now that he no longer earns a living as a US citizen he is no longer governed by IRS regulations and therefore does not pay taxes on any money earned. Not sure what Guantanamo has to do with anything.

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Well as a nation-less person do you have the same rights? I thought international conventions only apply to the citizens of the countries signed up?

Padawanbater2 said:

Cost is not an issue. If it were up to you, what changes would you implement to improve the quality of public education?

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In Ma. the are taking money away from Public education to pay down the State debt. I would make a law prohibiting tapping into Public Education.

SneekyNinja said:

Well as a nation-less person do you have the same rights? I thought international conventions only apply to the citizens of the countries signed up?

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As far as the United States is concerned, if you denounce your citizenship, the government doesn't care what you do, just as long as it's not on US soil. You'd have to apply for a Visa if you wish to stay in the United States for any period of time, just as any other non-citizen person should do.

Taxation is country specific and are not "transferrable" among consortium of countries.

I think the point you and I are trying to make is that Wesley and other tax dodgers need to pay up. They were given rights under the Constitution of the United States along with a vast plethora of "freedoms", and in return they contribute to the government that has provided for them. If they wish to no longer contribute, then denounce and be on their way.