HPS vs. LED Grow Lights — Which is Better for Growing Weed?

PJ Diaz said:

Like I said, I'd rather add a HID lamp in the mix than a heater. I get the heat from the wattage being used, plus the radiant heat from the IR, and the nice byproduct of extra light. I'm not sure why you're trying to poke holes in my system which is proven to work very well for me in the couple of cold months of the year I have to contend with.

I'm a bit confused by your suggestion to "add more power". Are you adding more overall wattage, including more diodes, or are you keeping the diode count the same and pumping more amps through the diodes? Either way your addition of "power" is also going to increase the ambient temps.

To be honest, I see the best quality from a mix of cmh and led, but I don't do it all year because I will have high heat issues most of the time with that setup. My space is very passive in terms of temp control, so I choose to adjust seasonally, rather than implement power consuming temperature control. I have no AC and no heaters. I just adjust to the seasons, and adding CMH to LED in the cold months works perfectly. I've been growing the wedding cake cut for close to two years now, so I have seen how it does under different conditions. It's pretty nice under straight LED, but right now I have it under the mix of CMH and LED, and I'm reminded how much better it comes out in this setup when I check on my plants each day lately, now that I'm past 8-weeks flowering..

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Hey, not trying to poke holes into anything if you're using the HID as both a light source and heat along side your LEDS that's kewl, whatever it takes to make it work! I was just noting that your room might be more effective in the winter with adequate insulation, I only say this from experience. We had a room that had one wall that was on the other side of an exterior wall and we were using LEDS in the room, so the room was colder than it needed to be in the winter. After boosting the insulating in the walls the cold issues were gone and we don't have to add heat unless it gets super super cold. We are using 4 lights in that room (10 x10) and it was effective for both the older and current lights.

Drasik said:

Hey, not trying to poke holes into anything if you're using the HID as both a light source and heat along side your LEDS that's kewl, whatever it takes to make it work! I was just noting that your room might be more effective in the winter with adequate insulation, I only say this from experience. We had a room that had one wall that was on the other side of an exterior wall and we were using LEDS in the room, so the room was colder than it needed to be in the winter. After boosting the insulating in the walls the cold issues were gone and we don't have to add heat unless it gets super super cold. We are using 4 lights in that room (10 x10) and it was effective for both the older and current lights.

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The issue isn't insulation so much as it is timing and air control. I grow in tents which are inside of a larger standalone lung room. The lung room itself it decently insulated, but my light cycle is on from midnight to noon (for flowering), because that's when power is cheapest. It's also when the outdoor environment is coolest. My tents and lung room aren't sealed, so I don't run any co2, and as such I need to being in fresh air intermittently. I have an intake fan (solar powered) which runs continually all day, bringing fresh air in from outside, then at night it is mostly off, but does have intervals that it turns on for 15-minute periods at a time throughout the midnight to noon (lights on) cycle. If I were to run co2 and seal my room off, it would be less of a hassle to deal with the cold temps in the winter, and would also allow me to run higher temps in the summer, but my lung room is also used for other purposes, so sealing it off isn't realistic. I know my situation could be better and isn't ideal, but I also have to deal with the limitations set forth as best I can. Running a cmh lamp next to led's a couple of cold months of the year is a simple solution to my situation, and frankly it works fantastically.

I've been known to break out the hps & cmh for nostalgia & heat in chilly months.. it serves its purpose.
But the majority of my area is usually dedicated to qb's & angled cobs around the perimeter to help penetration. Can't say I miss HID or the power bill at all.
LED is just a better choice for me & spectrum tailored light with less heat. I also think I get better colors & flavors that way. I also use led for supplemental FR, but for UV I use T5 over led.

Just pulled my 150w HPS to supplement my LED 2 weeks ago. Yes I know these plants are ugly but Im just dialing in my tent for a winter grow. Thinking I might go 600w HPS or 400w LED + dual 150w HPS

I have a 330w CMH setup but I thought the LED from HLG would be better

Here is my spring/summer light configuration. 12 Cob leds (Cree & Citizen) , 1- 250w QB (Samsung LM301H), various epistar & osram red & blue booster diodes, a Growstar 150w deep red (660-680nm) ufo, & the growmau RapidLed 730nm far red Puck. UVA supplemented by 48" AgroMax UVA+ . For UVB I have a T5HO 48" AgroMax Pure UVB (not shown) & California lightworks 24" UVB.. which has same spectrum 75% uvb & 25% uva. For the UV aspect I can't put my trust in led , the flouros just do it better. CMH has a nice spectrum as well.

But in the fall and winter I use cmh & hps.

Yeah they aren't the most expensive name brand lights I know, but they do put out enough serious photons & penetrate the canopy. I personally light all the different spectrums. Was honestly debating adding some aquarium reef tank cobs in the blue, cyan & violet spectrums to help anthrocyanin levels in the ripening phase.

So, ive grown with both of them, and also see in other people threads (the LED ones) that weight increased due to more diodes giving light at more places but the bud itself and quality for me was shit and to be honest also in most of the LED journals i look it looks shit too, when i say shit i mean when comparing to HPS or MH, each LED grow i smoke and see is shit quality, i mean what can you expect from a diode that only make 250 Lm ??

according to the book of old LED myths and legends chapter 2, an array of many leds (like the 600W+ panels) give you a total lets say 100,000 Lm right ? wrong ! you just added 300+ 250 Lm diodes together lol, its quite embarrassing that people forget simple math and logic when it comes to spending money on bogus claims, i saw on another thread here a LED panel that claims 5000 umol for 5000 $$ hahahaha i wonder if i put 10K i will get 10K umol people are so gullible these days and that goes for all led panels, ive pretty much tried them all from the lowest wattage ones to a "beast" 800w panels
And will never use them again, the only thing they do good is covering more space, but with what ? a low intensity small diode lol
i rather put 4 250W HPS on a 4 X 4 or even a 5 X 5 and get better results all day long, the only problem is heat, but i will take the 5-10% lose of light and power due to the glass in the airhood and some lower working temp for the bulb.
weight means nothing if most of it is leafy shit and not potent medicine, i dont care how long your trees are, its the med that counts, LED dont grow Meds like HPS, i dont know how people dont see it ?? look at LED flower and look at CMH or HPS flower, am i the only one who see the difference ?

They are all liars, in the bible it says that money will blind the just and the wise men, no exception in our times
First we started with 40-50 inch height recommendations, now the most expansive LEDs tell us to put them 5-6 inch from canopy ? so anyone with eyes in his head and some brain should know they are low intensity lights, next they will tell us to make the plants hug them for better penetration
Next they told us that they make 3000umol and 5000umol and it wont end there oh no the show must go on,
a 600 HPS will give you 2000 umol at 10 inch from canopy give or take, and under the hood itself not in the sides, that why HPS lacks the better light spreading of LED, but it makes up for it in creating and growing crazy potent ass MEDS

All in all i will never try LED again, such a waste of time
when they will show me a 250 or 400w diode that push more Lm then HPS maybe we meet again
but then they are back to the start as HPS does that today without waiting haha

snakedope said:

So, ive grown with both of them, and also see in other people threads (the LED ones) that weight increased due to more diodes giving light at more places but the bud itself and quality for me was shit and to be honest also in most of the LED journals i look it looks shit too, when i say shit i mean when comparing to HPS or MH, each LED grow i smoke and see is shit quality, i mean what can you expect from a diode that only make 250 Lm ??

according to the book of old LED myths and legends chapter 2, an array of many leds (like the 600W+ panels) give you a total lets say 100,000 Lm right ? wrong ! you just added 300+ 250 Lm diodes together lol, its quite embarrassing that people forget simple math and logic when it comes to spending money on bogus claims, i saw on another thread here a LED panel that claims 5000 umol for 5000 $$ hahahaha i wonder if i put 10K i will get 10K umol people are so gullible these days and that goes for all led panels, ive pretty much tried them all from the lowest wattage ones to a "beast" 800w panels
And will never use them again, the only thing they do good is covering more space, but with what ? a low intensity small diode lol
i rather put 4 250W HPS on a 4 X 4 or even a 5 X 5 and get better results all day long, the only problem is heat, but i will take the 5-10% lose of light and power due to the glass in the airhood and some lower working temp for the bulb.
weight means nothing if most of it is leafy shit and not potent medicine, i dont care how long your trees are, its the med that counts, LED dont grow Meds like HPS, i dont know how people dont see it ?? look at LED flower and look at CMH or HPS flower, am i the only one who see the difference ?

They are all liars, in the bible it says that money will blind the just and the wise men, no exception in our times
First we started with 40-50 inch height recommendations, now the most expansive LEDs tell us to put them 5-6 inch from canopy ? so anyone with eyes in his head and some brain should know they are low intensity lights, next they will tell us to make the plants hug them for better penetration
Next they told us that they make 3000umol and 5000umol and it wont end there oh no the show must go on,
a 600 HPS will give you 2000 umol at 10 inch from canopy give or take, and under the hood itself not in the sides, that why HPS lacks the better light spreading of LED, but it makes up for it in creating and growing crazy potent ass MEDS

All in all i will never try LED again, such a waste of time
when they will show me a 250 or 400w diode that push more Lm then HPS maybe we meet again
but then they are back to the start as HPS does that today without waiting haha

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Do you have any pics of your led/hps buds?

And for all of those that gonna tell me Lm is not a factor in growing plants you need to get ur science straight, because even science is realizing that Lm (or otherwise known as the intensity factor of a light source) is more importent then what most think and label, just what the human eye can see... No ! if that was the case then no plant would have given its peak growing and flowring to HPS or MH or any other light source which is not "full spectrum LED"
Reality prove otherwise anyway, no need to debate this

I never take pictures of my grows i live in a country that its strictly forbidden, im not here to convince anyone, just laid down the numbers and the science, you can take it anyway you like, it wont change the numbers and the logic that stand behind them.

Its funny that when you take a panel of 600W leds and put it on a 4 x 4 its ok and its fine to spread 300 diodes with 250 Lm each
but if i put 4 150W HPS ?
the only thing LED has solved is heat, and only by a margin, because it is now known that you need equal watts to HID in LED and ill even go further
then that and say that you probably need a hell of a lot more then equal watts of LED to match HID, and thats just math and logic, not theory.

BTW i will take a LED panel for Veg anyday !
cuz i can spread whichever wattage on about any given surface, and at 70 days veg (which is my time frame between the flower tent and veg tent) i dont need much intensity in order to grow them big with lets say 400w led over a 5x5 veg i can do very good before moving them to the flower tent

Lmao you don't take pictures, aye ok

I think alot of it too is your grow environment. If I lived way up North, I might consider HPS if I needed the heat.. But here in OK, we have plenty of heat. ... and plenty of cold. We can have 4 seasons in a week. But. I chose LED for the efficient operation, long life, and low to no maintenance. Like right now we're in the 90's during the day. My AC unit is set at 81 degrees. This may be because I have 16 inches of spray foam in my ceilings, and 8 inches in the walls. It takes forever for the temps to change in that room if you just shut everything down. .. like a couple of weeks with nothing running (when we take a short break). I think I've found the magic number of plants to run in a 20x30. Lights are on full blast, and AC at 81. Room stays at 81 degrees/63 RH during lights on, and I have no dehuyes running. They are making their own humidity at the right rate for the given space. This is saving me a ton on dehumidification. With a larger plant count, and a few weeks into flower, my dehuyes were burning 19 amps 24/7 trying to keep the RH in check. They only kick in at lights out now, and I may have a 5 point swing till lights come back on. Same with temps, I have about a 5 degree swing day/night. So... I think i just depends on your particular environment, and how efficient your room is, but.. LED is king in my book.

All good points to take into consideration. Personally I find LED to be more effective & efficient cost wise. I currently use Led and waited till the blurble stage passed & gave birth to the COB's & Quantum Boards. The Led tech of the past was indeed inefficient compared to HPS. Now that we have the new LED tech there is no comparison besides the SUN & with IR & UV supplementation we are slowly filling in those gaps. I use Cobs & Qb's for the majority year round and T5s for UV supplementation. I have gotten my personal best bud density & yield & potency wise thanks to LED. COB'S definitely are great at light penetration & you have to be careful because they can definitely burn & bleach plants if too close. Leds can cover every spectrum to mimic the sun without the heat of HID's and is far more cost effective in my opinion. But LEC (cmh) is still great lighting & I use it in the winter & the ladies love it. It truly is superior to HPS & since last year retired my HPS, and am not looking back or missing HPS in any way. Also that is my guess as to why most indoor growers & commercial indoor growers have done the same as well. LED is just more cost effective without any sacrifices. Who wouldn't want to provide every spectrum to their plants, I've noticed an increase in color, terps & flavor as well. What really impressed me was density & I'm certain it was because I'm running cooler temps than with HID, before they were ok but mostly kinda airy buds. Now those same strains are rock hard thanks to led. Sure HPS & DE HPS can still grow some killer bud no doubt, but it's outdated tech. The only HID worth comparing in my opinion is LEC CMH. I prefer my COBS & Quantum Board unless it's winter then I will supplement my Led with cmh, the rest of the season it's all LED.. except for uvb. I see Led can do uva now but cost wise I went with florescent T5 for now for UVA & UVB until the tech gets better & more cost effective. This is my own personal findings that I have experienced & I'm sure there are people using HID lighting and still produce killer bud & really have their system & grows dialed in & I give them my respect.
I also save a handful of plants and when mother nature is ready I move them outside simply because the sun is still #1 in my book. As for the other outdoor variables I'm not a fan of but thats a topic for another discussion. Honestly I'm impressed at how far the light tech has come over the past 25 years & I'm excited to see what the future holds.

*edit* my hps is 600 watt, because I read the 600 watt was the most efficient along with 1000 & DE HPS. I could barely survive Temps from the 600 watt so 1000 was out of the question. I've never tried the lower wattage 150 & 250, so I have no XP with those variants. I first started with florescent & cfl's, moved to HID hps , then to cmh & finally Led, COB's & Quantum Boards.

I was a 30+ year grower using hps……… switched a few years ago to Gavita LED’s and I’m yielding about 40% more overall. This is 12 plants in a 4 x 4 sq ft area under 1 Gavita. The light spread is remarkable……..day 22 in flowering.

Why not the Gavita double end hid’s? 40% increase with leds? That’s a bold claim.

All LEDs claims are bold, thats why it has to be taken with caution,
40% increase ? i can believe it, like i said LED has much more coverage then HPS, thats a fact, but again, with what ? small intensity diodes
Same quality ? i will never believe that, and the grow journals pics of people growing with LED show it again and again, Also i dont need other people pics, im growing under a 800w panel right now above a 4 X 4, and i can say with confidence i will never flower under it again
Veg is another story, and can be very good with LED

They claim to have umol numbers in 300 diodes combined that are greater then 1 light source that puts over 150000 Lm lol ?
Led is not logical, you add up the Lm of 300 diodes, get 100K total, not everywhere but total ! you put them 15-20 inch above canopy and tell me that 250 Lm diode is enough to have same penetration and intensity as a 150K Lm diode (HPS) at same height ??? sorry you have to be crazy to believe that
Do led manufactures think everyone is an idiot ?
They are playing every trick in the book in order to show that this lame ass tech which is nothing but bad for your eyes and dna and cells is the future and is better then HPS which mimic the magnetic properties of the sun (magnetic arc that lights noble gases)
Those tricks include making claims about even spread of ppfd is better then lower ppfd (at larger coverage) from greater intensity ??
Sorry im not sold on those ideas, also most def not sold about documents that surface from NASA (Never A Straight Answer) testing them so dont even mention the fake scuba divers that call themselves astro - not ! their claims is bogus and not to be taken seriously.

Its funny how LED users get all hyped up when someone does the ACTUAL math behind these lights,
If i were to take 50 CFL 20W bulbs and put them on a panel and raise that to 20 inch above canopy everyone here would have said its too far and not enough and bla bla bla even though a 15-20w bulb has X3 or X4 the Lm of a single LED diode, but when it comes to your 2w 3w diode then its ok ?
BOGUS CLAIMS !

I’ll admit it, I use the old technology and when I change, it’ll be the double end hid’s. Just to make it clear, I wasn’t calling anyone a liar with the 40% yield increase. I see many led grows and I’m not blown away.

snakedope said:

Its funny how LED users get all hyped up when someone does the ACTUAL math behind these lights,
If i were to take 50 CFL 20W bulbs and put them on a panel and raise that to 20 inch above canopy everyone here would have said its too far and not enough and bla bla bla even though a 15-20w bulb has X3 or X4 the Lm of a single LED diode, but when it comes to your 2w 3w diode then its ok ?
BOGUS CLAIMS !

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You seem to know very little about light and even less about lighting technology.

I NEVER CLAIMED TO KNOW ANYTHING !
Just giving you the numbers, you choose to add them up to get a "100K Lm Monster" lol
Its your perspective, mine is just you took a lot of low intensity lights and put them together thats all
Who is right ? Who is wrong ? How can we know ? well i look at my own grow, i only know what i see in it, i dont have to prove anyone besides my MJ that i know, and so far it seems they are accepting my logic, hmm sorry their logic, EDIT: Natures Logic ! (1 sun, high intensity, not 300 suns, low intensity)

snakedope said:

I NEVER CLAIMED TO KNOW ANYTHING !
Just giving you the numbers, you choose to add them up to get a "100K Lm Monster" lol
Its your perspective, mine is just you took a lot of low intensity lights and put them together thats all
Who is right ? Who is wrong ? How can we know ? well i look at my own grow, i only know what i see in it, i dont have to prove anyone besides my MJ that i know, and so far it seems they are accepting my logic, hmm sorry their logic

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You, you are wrong. Go and read up.