Hydro Ebb and Flow, 600w mh lights, how long to veg

Tried again after midnight, no dice.

This one goes out to J.D.




Above, Medusa that was topped three days ago.




Above, two tallest are Medust, both have been topped



above, Medusa


topped medusa



topped medusa




Little medusa that I managed to save after a botched germination!


white widow


white widow



white widow



white widow



topped medusa


Medusa that was saved after botched germination.



New Ushio bulb 600 w mh sitting about 15 inches from babies.


Sorry about the pics, would not load the normal way and had to put them here as an attachment.

Since the pics I trimmed everything down from the 2nd node. I also topped two more of the white widows. Will start flowering this Saturday exactly on the fourth week.

IlleGal,
Cut it out will you...you're making me blush.

Your plants all look healthy and well cared for. You're going to be struggling to keep light height balanced with so many different plant sizes. But a 600 has pretty good light penetration so you should be OK.

Just out of curiosity, what's your flood schedule and nutes? Have you read any of AlBFuct's threads? He runs really short floods...just enough to get to the top. I've always used 15 minute floods during lights on only. Some people throw in a single flood in the middle of dark time. Some people flood at intervals all day long. Seems there's no rules on that anymore...at least with hydroton. I never had plants wilt overnight.
Keep up the good work...
JD

Hi J.D.

thanks for checkin back in!! I am running four cycles, three during light and one in dark. I am using a fifteen minute timer. Remember this is my first hydro grow and I wanted to keep things simple. I am using dyna-grow 7-9-5. For this last week I'm at 12.5ml per gallon. I also added in two extra gallons with 1 tbsp of bloom and that's it. I have been very impressed and my connection at the organics shop suggested to go this route for the first time to make it easy. I am very impressed with growth and all systems still seem to be a go.

I started this thread because I read that one only needed to veg their grow for two weeks and then bloom. Glad I decided to wait and learn because two weeks just doesn't leave enough time to prepare and get these babies ready for flowering.

I did trim them up as you suggested and topped a couple of the white widows as well. I agree that uneven growth between the strains will lead to uneven lighting. Won't make that mistake again!! I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that during flowering I don't run out of headroom!!!

The hydroton really keeps the roots from drying out.

Question: I have rinsed the table each week with a few gallons of fresh water. The salt and powder buildup is crazy when the table dries between flooding. I am wondering if everyone utilizing an ebb and flow system have the same problem??

Haven't read any of AIBFuct's threads but I'll give them a read......

Your the best J.D.!

Good morning IlleGal,
Just a quick response...busy day (which is unusual for me).

Not familiar with dyna-grow and never had any major issues with residue build-up in tray. Maybe at res change time...run an extra flood cycle with just water before adding in nutes...as a little flush.

Are you measuring ppm in res...or just following directions on bottle (and from hydro guy...who was probably too busy oogling you to think straight)

Three floods during lights on is the minimum. You could bump up to 4 and still be on the conservative side.
JD

Hi J.D.

His wife is always around so he's safe!!!!

Not doing the ppm route yet but I plan on it next grow. So for now I just follow the directions on the bottle and make for darn sure that the reservoir stays up to the 20 gallon mark. The dyna-grow charts also suggest to use Protekt, Magpro and KLN. Once again Hydro guy said the other ingredients aren't necessary. I know that one of them is for root development. He was convinced that dynagrow just wants to sell more products. His credibility added up cause he had all those chemicals sitting right there on the shelf. Nice man but obviously not very business savy!!!

mmmmm, maybe I will add one more feeding during the light. J.D. things are going so well, I am just kicking myself for not doing hydro years ago!!!

I would admire pics on here of different grows and couldn't believe that their plants looked so healthy and green, now mine look exactly the same.

Sorry about your busy day stud, hopefully you're back to normal by now. Hope you're having a great night!!!

IlleGal,
Good morning. I survived the day yesterday and after a good night's rest...all is good.

Don't change your feed cycles unless you convince yourself it's a good idea. I want to supply ideas but the decisions about the grow are yours.

I also was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to produce good growth in hydro. I'd been struggling along with some difficult dirt grows...one problem after another. That's when I joined a ganja forum "Planet Ganja" and an Aussie forum. I ran into AlBFuct with his Ebb and Flow grows...which is where I got the inspiration. When I started buying equipment and tested my water...I found out why my dirt grows were going so badly. Terrible water.

I still use dirt for clone Mommas, but it will always be hydro from now on.

Have you planned on using a bloom boost product or do you think your regular bloom nutes will be enough? I've gone both ways. Always be careful with changes and nute increases...especially since you don't monitor ppm's. That's often where people get into trouble and burn plants. Watch leaf tips carefully for early signs...to give enough time to back off before too much damage is done. And always small changes.

And not to be complicating your life too much...in the back of your thoughts, you should be mulling and planning where your next batch of plants will be coming from. Clone Momma? seeds or what...and try and time things so that once you harvest, the next batch is ready to go. The goal should be to keep the flower room full all the time.
Carry on Sweetie,
JD

J.D.
Glad you're well rested, I was so lonely with you gone!!!!

Already added in the extra cycle, and yes it is my decision with a little guidance from you!!! I have now topped all but one of the babies. They are growing out of control and have had to rearrange the table twice now.

I have already picked up some Carbo Boost for flowering. My hydro guy highly recommended it. I have also been trimming a little every day, they are really looking nice. I also feel that with trimming you really get to know each plant and its behavior. Even with topping the two Medusa's are going nutzo so I think I'll be topping them again, but just those two.

Here is me reaching out for suggestions again. Yes I want to clone and keep rolling around the clock but here is the dilemma. I have the one 4x6 grow room and that's it. It is getting so damn crowded in there a gurl can't even move around any more!! So here is what I was thinking. I am thinking of adding a flourescent light (actually building a lightproof addition onto my grow room) and keeping the clone mama in there, but I would have to keep her in dirt and I don't want to. I would be ok with veg/flower/clone and then repeat but I fully realize that a clone mother is needed.

I think with an 8-10 pot grow it will keep me supplied until the next flowering is over. I don't know.......... maybe I should just add an extra room. The expense won't kill me and since other than work, growing has become a nice hobby for me (well aside from my other activities that you are aware of). If I decide to add another room then I can keep clone mama in the veg room. Geez, I'm talking myself into it aren't I???? lol

Cloning is the natural progression and I am already thinking of heading down that road. What do you think stud muffin??? I did start this grow from seed, the seed banks are really getting squeezed on and I fear that good quality seeds may be hard to get soon. Guide me oh Yoda!!!!

IlleGal,
I have the answer to your quandary (state of perplexity or doubt)...I looked it up, wanted to use the right word. A dilemma is a choice between two undesirable options. Not applicable...I get arcane when dipping into the tequila.

I read it on another thread and thought of you. This is the plan. It is possible to take cuttings from plants in flower. Optimal time is between week 1 and week 2. So lets just project into the future when you have a tray full of uniform plants. At week two...take a cutting from each and clone them. Maybe a few extras so you can choose the best. Root them and they will be your next crop. You'll be trimming off sucker branches anyway...so just clone them.

You will need a place to root them and veg them but a T5HO flouro should be all you need. This would be a no clone mother approach.

When I cautioned you on having many different strains on the same tray...I didn't mean you could never do it. If you can find a couple of different strains that share nutrient needs and flower times, then it's not so bad. I grew White Widow and Buddha's Sister in the same tray several times and they did OK.

Also, could you give me more info on your bud product. Company name perhaps. I couldn't pin it down online.
Later,
JD

J.D.

Ok, the products I'm using are as follows, vegetation is Dyna-Gro (Dyna-Gro plant food 7-9-5), then for bloom is Dyna-Gro bloom 3-12-6, To start during the second week of flowering I will be adding Carbo Blast. Here is a chart I have been using with the suggested other products to add:

:


The t-5 flouro is a no-brainer and already have a few but this is leading to a few other questions,

1. I thought taking a clone from a clone is a no-no. I realize that this would only happen during the third grow but what do you think???

2. From the time cloning begins until transfer is needed to the hydro table, how long do you think this would be?? I ask this because I only have one table..... I suppose I could arrange the flouro at one end of the table and put the babies on there and somehow light proof it from the flowering plants. mmmmmm (thinking).

3. Just basically pondering, if I took a cutting during the second week of flowering then I still have six weeks (or maybe more) of 12/12. So if cloning takes (x) many weeks before any significant growth occurs then how many weeks will be left for vegetation???

sounds inticing and I will also be searching for some answers. I think that tequilla would come in handy about right now!!!

Thanks again Yoda-Sex King!!!

Ok, did some initial investigating. I suppose the t-5 flouro can be utilized right up until it's flowering time..... According to what I've read, a clone can start flowering once it reaches 12 inches. The only part I'm having a hard time wraping my head around is somehow moving the clones to the hydro table and keeping them under the flouro. I would have to construct a type of box to keep the flouro light away from the flowering plants during their 12 hours of darkness, catching my drift???

Or, I could purchase a small hydro table, put a "T" on the water pump hose to feed the table, have it slightly elevated and let it drain back into the flowering plants. Oh J.D. the damn nutrients will still be for bloom and not vegetative growth. Straighten me out, I'm making this more difficult than learning to walk in high heels!!!!

Gonna sleep on it and dream of Yoda with a 12 inch cola (if you know what I mean!!!) Good nite

Good Mornin' IlleGal,
OK Carbo Blast...you told me Carbo boost before...and I got all sort of sports drink hits, but not much in the hydro arena. Common to add in a bloom booster at week 5 but anything goes with all the products out there. I recently saw a thread by a poor nube who bought into the Canna party line. Using every product that they make, and following their instructions to a T...and of course, he burned his plants.

I only wanted to know your nutes to be sure you were on the right track. I'll leave that to you...but one cautionary note. Many people will add their bloom booster product on top of their existing base bloom nute dosage. Nute burns sometimes occur at that point. I always lower base and then add enough booster in to bring me up to my previous level. Then after that...creep up the dosage if desired. Just a safety thing. Did I explain that OK?

It is OK to clone from clones. Many people do seriel cloning like that. Replicant fading can occur, but it takes many many generations to show itself. Most people would never run any strain that long.

Your example was pretty accurate. Cut at two weeks. Two weeks max to get good roots and a month to veg and your tray would be empty to receive them.

Two major flaws for your situation. As you mentioned, lack of space...but the big issue is what would you grow them in? Can't grow from soil to hydro. Trying to transpant up using hydroton would be a nightmare and surely would damage roots. That doesn't leave much. You don't want to build an entire new e&f system just for vegging. I'm working on a few ideas but not sure if they are viable.

I kept clone Mommas and did SOG with no veg. So I just took cuttings two weeks before harvest and then directly into try for start of flowering. But I had to do almost 30 clones every time...the only downside. The beauty was that I never had to worry about height. Plants never even got to 2' at harvest.

So sorry to complicate your life. I just didn't want you to have to waste lots of time at the end of this grow...before being ready to start again.
Later,
JD

IlleGal,
After posting just now, I realized I had missed your last post. Tequila will do that. Just a few points...a clone retains it's Mother's maturity and so is fully capable of flowering once it has roots, no matter how tall it was. I flowered 6" clones. AlBFuct cuts larger clones which are still only 9" or so. So...no hard and fast rule on that.

The other issue...media and how to veg. Well I'm about as confused as you are on that issue. One idea I came up with is to veg them in 3"x3" rockwool cubes and then place those maybe 1/4 submerged in hydroton. A sort of hybrid system. It would complicate your grow though because rockwool holds water more then hydroton. You would probably need to hand water for awhile till roots grew down into hydroton. I am not suggesting this. Just one idea that popped into my head.

One last idea is to veg using flower nutes...for your T idea. Doable if your flower nutes have enough N. I don't use Grow nutes at all.
JD

J.D!!!

Read both your posts and thank you so much once again. I am just going to make another room. Keeping a veg room going 24/7 will also enable me to plant some tomatos and other vegetables. I am a vegetarian and wannabe vegan and I would love to give that a try, so that is all the justification I need to throw together another room.

Also, and this pertains directly to the start of this thread, I wish I would have started flowering at week 3 instead of 4. J.D., the babies are out of control and I am definately going to run out of head room!!! Even with topping the Medusa's are off to the races and I just can't believe my eyes!

So, I have already come up with a ventilation plan to circulate air between the two rooms without having to add another air conditioner in the new room. I am pretty excited and I'll post some pics when finished.

I gotch on the Carboblast and being careful when adding. I will be sure to go slow.

Be back a little later with updates!!!

IB,
Quick post. Sent you a PM. I agree you will need more space...but just having more space won't solve the medium issue.

And I read up on the Carbo Blast. It is just a carbohydrate product...not a bloom booster which is why it's suggested to use during all of flowering. Nutrient value 0-1-0 so my precaution isn't really needed for that.

So height is becoming an issue? Are you in 12/12 now?
JD

Like i said earlier I have height issues as well and thats the reason for my 20 day veg cycle lol. Not to worry though just tie the taller branches down a bit and away from the light if you have room. I just started a new run and really hope to scrog this one to allow for a bit more veg growth. Once you find a perfect match for your setup and start cloning all should be good as well. Nice plants BTW!!!!!

The top of the curtain is 5.5' and I actually ran out of room to tie them down. It was White Russian which are like Jack and the bean stalk seeds lol.

JohnDee said:

IB,
Quick post. Sent you a PM. I agree you will need more space...but just having more space won't solve the medium issue.

And I read up on the Carbo Blast. It is just a carbohydrate product...not a bloom booster which is why it's suggested to use during all of flowering. Nutrient value 0-1-0 so my precaution isn't really needed for that.

So height is becoming an issue? Are you in 12/12 now?
JD

Click to expand...

Officially starts tomorrow, thank goodness!!!! sphew! I am so thankful for a great grow but I also realize that I have a crazy eight weeks ahead!!!! The two little ones I saved, well, lets say they're on their own!!!! I put them to the side and try to keep them in the light but, fend for yourselves!!!! lol You know, I open the door and have "Deer in the headlights" syndrome every day. Just amazed, equivocally amazed! What has made it really exciting is guys like you and waterdawg following the grow. I can easily take a whole sheet of paper to write down lessons learned on this one. It is really an entirely different world, hydro compared to soil.

I met a forrest ranger years back while camping in the national forrest. This guy went on and on about how hydroponic weed is the devils tool, the substance that will destroy the world, all because it was so strong!!!!! He enters my mind from time to time and I have to giggle about it. The misperceptions some people have is hysterical!! There are two very sweet things about hydro regarding the grow, the dark green thriving plants and how clean everything is!!!!! No more freakin dirt!!!

J.D. I'm off to answer your pm.

waterdawg said:

Like i said earlier I have height issues as well and thats the reason for my 20 day veg cycle lol. Not to worry though just tie the taller branches down a bit and away from the light if you have room. I just started a new run and really hope to scrog this one to allow for a bit more veg growth. Once you find a perfect match for your setup and start cloning all should be good as well. Nice plants BTW!!!!!

Click to expand...

You tried to warn me Dawg. No doubt I should have flowered last week at week 3. On the other hand it gave me the chance to top them and watch the shoots come up....

Great job on your grow as well and thanks for checking back in!!!!

I know! The growth is awesome! The pic is my first grow and I was shocked! This grow I've only put in 4 per tray, hopefully it'll be more manageable!