I have a feeling my newly sprouted plant is dying on me. Someone help me please?

Hello all, this is my first post to this website. This is my first ever attempt at trying to grow Cannabis. So first off, I germinated the seeds in a wet paper towel and sealed them off in a bag. After the roots were peaking out, I put them in the dirt with the outside of the shell facing up near the surface. I am growing this plant in doors, the temperature of the house is around 79 degrees and is an open room for good air circulation. It's under a 400 watt coralvue dimmable ballast with a 20 kelvin MH bulb. Iv'e had the plant for three days now and I feel like it started out good but now is progressively getting worse (I feel like). The dicot leaves (first two embryonic leaves) have darkened up in pigmentation during the second day and started to become almost black at the tips. My theory is that the MH light was producing too much heat. So in efforts to counter act this I placed a fan blowing air at the light in hopes to bring the temperature down and to create even more circulation. I also turned the ballast down from max wattage to minimum. The soil I am using is Miracle Grow and I water the plant twice a day. My lights stay on for about 15-18 hours. The plant is a about 2.5 feet under the light.
 

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The first picture is from day 1 (far left), the second picture is day 2, and the third and fourth picture is from just now.
 

Hypocrite420

New Member
im a noob so don't take my advice to heart, but the expensive MH and HPS lights only seem to be necessary after the plant is older and can handle more stress. My babies are only 4 weeks old from seed and I have been using fluorescent lights and they love it. Try putting a t8 or t5 tube 1.5 - 2" above it and break out the bad boy MH after its a little stronger maybe. I have never even seen a MH or HPS so I don't really know the effects.
 
Well I have saltwater reef tanks so I have some high powered lights laying around. So you would recommend just a regular fluorescent or power compact light instead?
 

Hypocrite420

New Member
here is a pic I took yesterday of my first grow. I'm just using a 4' t8 ballast with one cool white and one warm bulb and 2 CFLs one being 26w and one 14w both warm colored. My babies are happy and so is my girlfriend because I'm not jacking the power bill up.
 

Hypocrite420

New Member
thanks brother, they sprouted through the dirt exactly one month ago to the day. I only let them veg for 3 weeks and now I have had them on the 12/12 for 6 days trying to force flowering. I have limited vertical space so I'm hoping I can maintain a short stature. I wasn't ready for a grow I just found a couple seeds in a bag of some dank and figured i would give it a try. Probably should have saved them til I had more money... Oh well. I subscribed to this thread so keep us informed of how your grow goes. Good luck to you man.
 

pandan

Active Member
It looks fine.
Don't stress over those first round leaves that pop out of the seed first- as soon as it sprouts a new set then they are pretty much useless. I can't tell you what is wrong from those pictures, but it really doesn't matter unless it happens to your true leaves.

You mentioned nutrients- be very careful fertilizing seedlings that are under 2 weeks old. Everyone's potting mix is different but generally there is already enough in the mix to raise the seedling for at east a week if not longer. So generally unless you know what you are doing hold of with the fert until it looks like a plant not a shoot.
You need to get yourself some picture charts or photo sets that show you what under and over fertilization of various elements looks like. Google it, various people have put collections together for easy reference.

As for your light- you are using the right thing don't change it! People will tell you to use CFL or what not to avoid stressing your seedlings but let me just tell you instead that all you need to do is keep the lamp at the right distance. Again I recommend you do some googling and find out the correct distance for when it's a seedling, then a small plant then the optimum closeness for when the plant is established. Using a MH you will have great fat healthy stems and fast compact growth- you go CFL and you'll most likely get a lankier slower growing weed. Just remember what you read as instructions will be just a guide and you yourself will have to check on the results and test the temperature to see if the distance is appropriate for your rig. You are better off having the light a bit further away and lose out on light then have it put more than 35 degrees Celsius on your plants. Don't let people tell you it won't work because I use a 600w HID from day one with great results and i've seen people use a 1000W.

Watering- twice a day sounds way too much, especially for a plant that doesn't even have roots to suck the medium dry. You want to water the pot in wet so it runs off a little bit and then leave it without watering again until it's still slightly moist but about to cross over to dry. See ideally you want the medium to be always moist but not wet. When it's wet, like you can squeeze water out of it, then the oxygen level is really low. Roots need oxygen so just like you don't want your head under water too long plants don't want it either. On the same token plants bring in nutrients with water and are constantly sweating out of their leaves (you'll see this water build up and sit on leaves if air flow is bad) so need to keep bringing in more so if you let the root zone sit with no water too long then the plants foliage will dry out. You need to find the balance between the two.

Go find some guides or even buy a book about all the fundamentals. Don't try to just figure it out as you go, you'll just learn how to make mistakes.
 

Hypocrite420

New Member
@ pandan: Good advice. But don't bash my shit man. I never told him it wouldnt work, I told him that I have never even seen a MH or HPS light. That is the complete opposite. I have only been growing for 4 weeks. but here is a pic that I just snapped of my box and I am using all fluorescent. For a cheap setup and cheap electric bill mine look fine to me.
 

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pandan

Active Member
Oh sorry no don't get me wrong I wasn't talking about you. I actually skimmed your post instead of reading it because I noticed you weren't telling him 'what was wrong' with his set up- and that's all i set out to do :)
I was actually thinking about a lot of other posts and even web chats I've seen where some people tell others that it literally won't work- and I actually didn't even mean to say that using a CFL won't work, what i really mean is that HID is easier to get the best results with. Since he already has the lamp I didn't want someone to talk him in to pretty much downgrading and spending new money on a different system- again not you or anyone who posted here but some of the other CFL fanatics or ignoramus out there.

Very nice picture, good job. Can I offer you a little advice too maybe? That plant that is closest to the camera (and maybe the back one too) seems to be sitting a bit deep in the pot. If you lift it up and put some more potting mix (or what ever your medium is) under it then the lower leaves won't have the direct light being blocked as much and also the plant will have more room for roots which is always good. Of course you don't want to fill it right to the top or ever time you water it will spill over the sides :)
 

Hypocrite420

New Member
yea man i put them real low when i transplanted them. The roots are already growing through the bottom drain holes so i need to transplant again so i guess ill just try to raise them a bit. I just am so scared of killing them every time i gotta dig them up. plus im already a week into 12/12 and heard its not good to disturb the roots once its in that cycle. Is this true? What would you do?
 

pandan

Active Member
Ok it's never a 'good time' to disturb the roots just like it's never a good time to cut someone open with a scalpel- but if someone needs surgery you cut em open and fix em up and if your root zone needs space you need to dig it up and fix it up. Yes still do it in flowering if you know the roots are binding up or your going to have problems.
Do you know a proper technique for re-potting? It's something physical you have to learn but remember never pull on the trunk or you'll snap off the roots. Instead you want to hold the trunk and gently tap down on the rim of the pot. Don't do it too hard or the shock wave will break up the potting mix. Tap lightly then more harder until the pot falls off rather than trying to pull the plant away from the pot. If you are root bound you won't have to worry about the looser potting mix clumps falling away and snapping roots off. If the plant is stuck because it is root bound just turn it upside down and tap the rim of the pot on the edge of a table or something to again sake the pot loose rather than pulling on the trunk. If you learn to do it right then you won't harm the roots much at all. One more tip- you can always use a bigger pot earlier if you don't mind using more water and fertilizer volume earlier on- nothing says a plant grows better when it's young if it's in a small pot but when the roots run out of space the plant first starts to bonsai then starts to have nutrition and other problems.
 

Hypocrite420

New Member
okay cool thanks for the info man. I love this forum. idk the exact size of the pots they are in right now, but I seen people with plants wayyyy bigger than mine in the same size pots so I figured they would be a good size to use. I used superthrive tho and maybe thats what made the roots so crazy big. There is just tiny little tips of the roots coming out of each drain hole. Like not even 2 millimeters. I guess I'll go out this weekend and get the next size pot. Now another question, I am working with very limited vertical height of my grow space so even just a larger pot is going to give me even less space, so you ever personally use the LST method and if so you think that might be the way for me to go? Would my plants be too old to bend without snapping them?
 
Pandan, I didn't mention anything about nutrients but I did say how I was using miracle grow as my soil. Also as far as using MH goes, what about spectrum? I am using a 20 kelvin bulb. Is that too much on the blue side?
 

pandan

Active Member
I am working with very limited vertical height of my grow space so even just a larger pot is going to give me even less space, so you ever personally use the LST method and if so you think that might be the way for me to go? Would my plants be too old to bend without snapping them?
Keeping your plants height down is nearly always a good idea. The further away from the lamp the less light it gets so even if you have the room to go really tall it just wastes the bottom half of the plant. You could try SOG (Sea Of Green) where you would have pots side by side just about touching each other but each plant is very small and a single stem. That way you have short plants but what will look like a table top or 'sea' of buds. You can also LST like you said where you bend the main stem right down so it stimulates the lower nodes to want to all push out and find the canopy. If you are still in veg then you still have time to train, just be really slow and careful about it until you get familiar with what works. They not only snap but tear off at the node point so be mindful of that when bending. If you are early in flower like first few weeks then you can still shape your plant a bit like spread out the canopy, but the fibres in the stems will be getting rigid and snap easier as time moves on. You won't be able to LST in flower because the new branches will only finnish growing in the first few weeks- rather than new ones appearing because of the hormones changed from bending. Then there is SCROG, where you get a similar effect to SOG but instead of many plants you use one plant under a screen. You LST or top the plant to remove the focus from the leading tip and promote other strong branches and then train it through the screen horizontally to fill the grow area. When you scrog it generally takes a while, like maybe 8 weeks, but you can see some pretty good examples of it on this forum. Search for those things and also search on this forum for Uncle Ben's topping guide, that will help you too.
 

pandan

Active Member
Pandan, I didn't mention anything about nutrients but I did say how I was using miracle grow as my soil. Also as far as using MH goes, what about spectrum? I am using a 20 kelvin bulb. Is that too much on the blue side?
Sorry I haven't delved in to spectrum's but 20k is what a number of people use. Best bet is to google it or use this forum search.
 

mysunnyboy

Well-Known Member
Pandan, I didn't mention anything about nutrients but I did say how I was using miracle grow as my soil. Also as far as using MH goes, what about spectrum? I am using a 20 kelvin bulb. Is that too much on the blue side?
hey cichlidfor, i'm not an expert but i have done alot of research and am in the first week of flower, and i can tell you the things i have learned the hard way. the color thats best for vegging is 6500k and flowering is 2700k. i know you can use 5000k and the various other color temps but these blue and red are the best.

i also had problems with my soil. it was an "organic" soil mix but i think it was scotts or mg, i am not sure which, but it had too many nutrients burned my plants in the early stages. i would honestly suggest the you keep an eye on you baby and maybe think about using a better mix. i use premium pro-mix but there are others like fox farm or i have been told you can check at your local green house or nursery and they may have their own private label type mix. there is a HUGE difference and honestly i think switch, in my circumstance, really paid off.

like i said i surely don't know it all but i have learned alot the hard way and i hate to see anyone else go thru what i did. you can learn alot from this forum but don't take everyone's advice, not pointed at anyone responding to you but some of the other jokers on here, make some friends, and learn from them. we are all here to help each other :peace:
 

Hypocrite420

New Member
sweet thanks for your knowledge on the subject pandan. I'm about to search that uncle ben's topping guide right now lol. I attemped to FIM both of my babies a couple weeks ago but all it did was mess them up, they didnt grow 2 colas it only stunted their growth and grew 2 sets of messed up leaves. I obviously did it wrong.
 
Sorry I haven't delved in to spectrum's but 20k is what a number of people use. Best bet is to google it or use this forum search.
Actually after googling it, I would doubt 20k is what a number of people use. I think the light I am using is WAY too blue. I just found this:
 

Hypocrite420

New Member
Maybe people use those in larger rooms with multiple plants. From what I understand the further the light source is from the plants the lower the lumen output really is. So if it was growing multiple plants from a good distance it might work well. Theres actually a fluorescent bulb I was looking at that has 20k. It was called "daylight" I believe. Start a new thread about this question and you will probably get some better answers.
 
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