I just realized I know nothing. What even is this "soil" you speak of?

R

Relic79

Well-Known Member
When I recently started trying to put together a usable nutrient rich "soil" I realized that I don't know what soil is. I want to clear up my fundamental understanding on this so I can become more informed. I feel like I've got something basic completely wrong.

If peat is peat, and coco is coco, and compost is compost, and ewc is ewc, and all the various organic ammendmants are just organic matter, minerals, etc. At what point does that mixture become "soil"?

For example, when some one says they want to add coco to an organic mix, most would seem to suggest to use coco for hydro only and stay with a peat based "soil" for organics. (No one specific, this just seems to be the general sentiment and advice).

Then I see a lot of mixes start with something like 1/3 peat, 1/3 ewc and 1/3 aeration (give or take). I know annecdotally peat seems to perform better for organics, but is a peat based mix a "soil" and would it still be "soil" if the peat was substituted for coco?

Then I thought, is my garden soil outside, actually soil? It's pretty heavy clay, and I need to work it quite a bit to make it usable, but stuff does grow.

Up north near the peat bogs, I imagine the soil is very peaty, here is seems to be clay, in the tropics, wouldn't that soil have a lot of old rotting coconut in it?

My "what is soil" searches have not been terribly fruitful, so I thought I might engage with the community to try set my brain right!

All my assumptions aside, what even is soil?

Thanks
 
mysunnyboy

mysunnyboy

Well-Known Member
Relic79 said:
When I recently started trying to put together a usable nutrient rich "soil" I realized that I don't know what soil is. I want to clear up my fundamental understanding on this so I can become more informed. I feel like I've got something basic completely wrong.

If peat is peat, and coco is coco, and compost is compost, and ewc is ewc, and all the various organic ammendmants are just organic matter, minerals, etc. At what point does that mixture become "soil"?

For example, when some one says they want to add coco to an organic mix, most would seem to suggest to use coco for hydro only and stay with a peat based "soil" for organics. (No one specific, this just seems to be the general sentiment and advice).

Then I see a lot of mixes start with something like 1/3 peat, 1/3 ewc and 1/3 aeration (give or take). I know annecdotally peat seems to perform better for organics, but is a peat based mix a "soil" and would it still be "soil" if the peat was substituted for coco?

Then I thought, is my garden soil outside, actually soil? It's pretty heavy clay, and I need to work it quite a bit to make it usable, but stuff does grow.

Up north near the peat bogs, I imagine the soil is very peaty, here is seems to be clay, in the tropics, wouldn't that soil have a lot of old rotting coconut in it?

My "what is soil" searches have not been terribly fruitful, so I thought I might engage with the community to try set my brain right!

All my assumptions aside, what even is soil?

Thanks
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R

Relic79

Well-Known Member
mysunnyboy said:
lol @Herb & Suds
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I knew I was gonna take shit for this post. I also do want to say, I understand that basic definition.

I guess another way of putting it. If the soil outside forms over thousands of years from natural processes. At what point does a mixture of ingredients in an organic growers pot or bed become "soil", and why might we call one mixture soil, and another mixture not?

For example, if growing in plain Promix HP with bottle nutrients is soil-less, but peat is in soil, what would you need to add to Promix to then call it "soil" and is there a component of time involved?
 
mysunnyboy

mysunnyboy

Well-Known Member
Relic79 said:
I knew I was gonna take shit for this post. I also do want to say, I understand that basic definition.

I guess another way of putting it. If the soil outside forms over thousands of years from natural processes. At what point does a mixture of ingredients in an organic growers pot or bed become "soil", and why might we call one mixture soil, and another mixture not?

For example, if growing in plain Promix HP with bottle nutrients is soil-less, but peat is in soil, what would you need to add to Promix to then call it "soil" and is there a component of time involved?
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Soil is a medium made up of peat, dirt, etc. I use ffof soil. It’s got perlite in it. Promix has peat, dirt, perlite.
It isn’t something I dwell on being organic grower.
I just don’t use anything out of a bottle, personally.
 
ilovereggae

ilovereggae

Well-Known Member
Relic79 said:
I knew I was gonna take shit for this post. I also do want to say, I understand that basic definition.

I guess another way of putting it. If the soil outside forms over thousands of years from natural processes. At what point does a mixture of ingredients in an organic growers pot or bed become "soil", and why might we call one mixture soil, and another mixture not?

For example, if growing in plain Promix HP with bottle nutrients is soil-less, but peat is in soil, what would you need to add to Promix to then call it "soil" and is there a component of time involved?
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I think your question is valid, and the simplest answer I can give is, its a gray area. Soil can contain various different 'ingredients' depending on what is present.

I used to use FFOF alone when I started out. This pretty much has no nutrients or life after the first month or so. Requiring adding bottled nutrients. At the end of the day, regardless of whether those nutes are sythentic or organic, in my opinion this is soilless gardening still. The medium becomes almost a moot point once it is inert.

I now use a premium 'supersoil' with everything I need, and am able to just amend with EWC and other organic matter between rounds. I think this is why the current movement of 'living organic soil', no till, regenerative farming focuses more on the soil web of life that lives inside of your medium, and keeping the microorganisms happy and thriving. The soil you start out with might need to be amended based on what it contains, but a lot of us are moving towards the same goal, albeit with slightly different methods and ingredients based on what is available locally.
 
kovidkough

kovidkough

Well-Known Member
I think real soil is alive and teeming with microbial life. these microbes creat a sort of symbiotic relationship with your plants roots...when those microbes die your left with a pile of dirt that needs salt feed now, plants in nature have access to this herd without human intervention. you got two choices feed the plant or feed the soil, both work some argue the latter is better
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
Relic79 said:
I knew I was gonna take shit for this post. I also do want to say, I understand that basic definition.

I guess another way of putting it. If the soil outside forms over thousands of years from natural processes. At what point does a mixture of ingredients in an organic growers pot or bed become "soil", and why might we call one mixture soil, and another mixture not?

For example, if growing in plain Promix HP with bottle nutrients is soil-less, but peat is in soil, what would you need to add to Promix to then call it "soil" and is there a component of time involved?
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I talk about this a lot. The conclusion I've come to whichever makes most since is ..... soil = alive. Soiless = inert
Obviously not scientific but work so for my stoner brain.

When growing soiless, plants are 100% reliant on the farmers inputs directly. Nutrient regimen , ph , tds flush and most your standard gardening praxtices.

When growing with soil: feeding and harnessing the micro herd of living organism in the soil to breakdowns/ And manage nutrient to the plant. Working work symbolic relationship plants can communicate with microherd to fixate certain elements as needed. Feed the soil. Not the plant. Hope This helps. :)
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
I should also mention that roots organic for example is soil out of the bag. But can become soiless medium if you were to run synthetic nutrients and phing. The salts destroy most all the micro beasties and your left with what I consider now a soiless medium. Inert.
 
ilovereggae

ilovereggae

Well-Known Member
solakani said:
I use super soil recipes in a living soil application. It has some native soil from my plot. To me, soil is the growers holy grail. It is the dream grow medium where everything will thrive with little care.
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making the switch and being able to just do water only feedings also makes my daily rounds take 1/3 of the time it used to. Was way more of a chore before. Now when I mix up a ewc 'tea' once every week or 2, its just to give them a little boost and I am back to having fun with it.
 
Leeski

Leeski

Well-Known Member
I’m completely obsessed by soil even went to my local Library and did research of where the best soil could be in my area found a forest about 10miles from me that’s close on 300years old took a cedar wooden box with part cooked rice to collect imo1 ☮
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
ilovereggae said:
making the switch and being able to just do water only feedings also makes my daily rounds take 1/3 of the time it used to. Was way more of a chore before. Now when I mix up a ewc 'tea' once every week or 2, its just to give them a little boost and I am back to having fun with it.
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Next step my friend is setting the soil in control of our watering. Blumats are really amazing. Then your Chores become ooooinf and ahhing and taking the extra time to document slight difference in smells of each pheno. Or better yet each branch lol.
 
ilovereggae

ilovereggae

Well-Known Member
green_machine_two9er said:
Next step my friend is setting the soil in control of our watering. Blumats are really amazing. Then your Chores become ooooinf and ahhing and taking the extra time to document slight difference in smells of each pheno. Or better yet each branch lol.
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trust me, its all part of the plan. atm i am in an apt bedroom w hardwood floors, too scared to try the blumats and get a runout disaster. But once I can move to somewhere with a garage, its game time!

Leeski said:
I’m completely obsessed by soil even went to my local Library and did research of where the best soil could be in my area found a forest about 10miles from me that’s close on 300years old took a cedar wooden box with part cooked rice to collect imo1 ☮
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working my way through these 2 atm

Fundamentals of Horticulture: Edmond, J. B.: 9780070189850: Amazon.com: Books

Fundamentals of Horticulture [Edmond, J. B.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Fundamentals of Horticulture
www.amazon.com

buildasoil.com

"Albrecht on Soil Balancing, Vol. 7"

Albrecht on Soil Balancing, Vol. 7 by William A. Albrecht In volume 7 Prof. Albrecht reveals the importance of the balance equation, that it isn’t enough to have nutrient to soil connections, it is the ratio of one element to another that counts. Albrecht’s insight further reveals that an ounce...
buildasoil.com buildasoil.com
 
R

Relic79

Well-Known Member
green_machine_two9er said:
Blumats are really amazing.....
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Question about the Blumats: Does the "dry out" period between waterings that is generally needed no longer matter? Do you need more aeration than normal perhaps?


Wow a lot of good info here. I think I get the overall picture, and how the term seems to be used. This all came about for me when I was trying to understand why organic growers don't often use coco instead of peat and why, both being organic, inert or otherwise, one might make a better "soil" than the other. Then I realized soil in the tropics probably does have a fair amount of composted coconut and so I started to just think in general about soil composition around the world, and then what the word actual meant in general.

Thanks!
 
Leeski

Leeski

Well-Known Member
If your going with super/living soil blumat are the dogs balls as you want a constant moisture level to keep you Biology happy I use blumat digital sensor could not live with out it takes all the guess work out for me ☮
 
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