I need a guru with five minutes(please).

I trust my local shop. I also learned that he's not in business to be my "friend", he's in business to move his inventory.

If you see this post as an opportunity to move your inventory, please realize I can smell such replies from a mile away.
I really really just hope for obi-wan right now, and god bless you for helping out a wannabe/admirer of yours

Here's my sitch:

I built a 6-site, single tote aero/dwc system (it's like what you see used as a 90-something site cloner, but it has 6 sites, was going to use it for vegging, maybe even the full grow). I will build a PVC-type aero/nft with a separate nute rez this week.
Also built a really nice ebb-n-flow sys with a 4' by 2' grow table and GH fittings etc (i love it)

While I was fullforce buying stuff, I thought it was necessary to have both an MH and a HPS lamp, so I bought a used sunsystem reflector hood (love it), a 400W MH bulb at 7500K, and a MH/HPS digital switchable ballast.

Even if I didn't mind giving off a heat signature visible from outer space, I can't
have both an MH and an HPS going on here, not to mention I cant buy another hood, ballast etc. for an HPS flowering bulb.

All I ever see in vids, pics, and ads of grow rooms are HPS bulbs!

Here's what I would like to do, it makes sense to me, I don't know if it is foolish or if it has a name (perpetual harvest, SOG), or if I'm missing something, or whatever, but could you please shed your obi-wans on this (bash it if you wish):

1. Just put the seedlings into the aero/dwc tote under 6500K fluoros (like you would with clones) for month or two at 18/6, until they are 12" or 24" (30cm or 60cm) tall...

2. Then just move them to flowering HPS on 12/12, taking clones in the process.

3. Put the clones into the aero tote under fluoros, (and rotate to step 1).

AFAIK, the plants will heighten while flowering. And if they're 24" tall when they start flowering, they'll grow as tall as I can allow them to be. I don't need monsters, just would like a tidy rotating system. Would this work? No MH?

I appreciate your five minutes of insight more than you know.


Mike

Can an HPS be used for the entire grow?
Can an MH be used for an entire grow?

the stretch happens in the first 2 weeks of flower, you need to keep your light as close as possible during this time to avoid it stretching to much. You can use a Mh or Hps for both, but the way you described above is the right way. switch out your bulbs for veg to flower.

Phlange said:

Can an HPS be used for the entire grow?
Can an MH be used for an entire grow?

Click to expand...

yes and yes

expect a stretchier plant under hps all the way and expect 10-15% less yield under mh all the way, but most likely more head stone plant.
I mix them up and use mh or cmh for veg and hps for flower and throw in additional uvb lights towards the end.

Edit(sorry just read VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO's post and realised he said pretty much the same thing...)

Your plan is a good one given what you got to work with. I have grown with just MH and with just HPS thru both phases with no visible difference. In fact, if you gotta go with one or the other, I'd go with metal Halide just 'cuz it's easier on the eyes.
Your plan to veg with floros then flower under HID is a good one.
BTW, with a 400w system I wouldn't be worried about heat signatures. I ran a minimum of 3 1K, and 2 400w at any given time, and the NSA didn't have any satellites zero'ed in on me. Pay your bill and don't steal power. You'll be fine as long as you keep secrets from even your BEST friend.

Phlange said:

2. Then just move them to flowering HPS on 12/12, taking clones in the process.

Click to expand...

Take clones before you switch to 12/12. I also like to wait at least a week after clones are taken before I put it into flower, let them deal with one thing at a time.

giving it a whirl.
Guys, thank you VERY Much. I mean infinitely.

actually that's a great point. at least a week i would guess.

man i love this place! this is exactly the kind of feedback ive been hoping i could recieve for a long time.

Jack Harer said:

Pay your bill and don't steal power. You'll be fine as long as you keep secrets from even your BEST friend.

Click to expand...

That's the best piece of info any grower could get.

Use MH for vegging it will give you closer nodes and will controll stretching. HPS for flowering. This is why you see people using HPS for flowering IMO its better for flowering.

VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO said:

That's the best piece of info any grower could get.

Click to expand...

Funny as hell.

MEGAyielder420 said:

Use MH for vegging it will give you closer nodes and will controll stretching. HPS for flowering. This is why you see people using HPS for flowering IMO its better for flowering.

Click to expand...

I have read that a grower here and there have skipped a proper vegging period altogether and put their 12" clones straight onto flower nutes/cycle. If that does work, I would do that since I am actually trying to avoid anything resembling a Frankenbushmat this point (nothing too tall at all).

Can I go straight to flowering, and with the mh ?

You can go straight flowering from clone with the MH. I am not a fan of MH for flowering but some growers use MH all the way through. Your best bet is to experiment with both lights. Try one with HPS and another with MH and see which one is more efficient.

Check out ebay or your local grow shop for dual spectrum or spectrum enhanced lamps... I am using a HiLux Gro HPS lamp, but what is nice is that it is spectrum enhanced. Meaning- while it is a HPS bulb, primarily in the 575-650nm range (red) it does have some distribution in the 425-475nm range. I used it for my whole grow last time and had superb results. Tight node spacing, good weight and penetration. A little pricey at $110, but worked great with the digital ballast too... I am working on a new DWC sog setup right now, small scale for personal medicine, but this might work for you: Cut clones from a mother plant, and once rooted, let them grow to around 6." Carefully trim all but the top bud sites, leaving fan leaves, and switch to 12/12, The tiny plant will stretch nicely and form one large cola that, depending on strain, will finish to be 12-18" long.

Or you can just top em to keep them short, but encourage lateral branching. Just be careful during the stretch cause they can get unruly and you might not want too much foliage competing for light.

I've heard that adding a few "cool white" CFLs helps balance the spectrum out...anyone else?

either one will do the job

i use both all the time a 250 eye hortilux -hps and a 250 cmh -philips all the time i throw in a uvb at week 3 of flower

i spin each pot 1/4 turn daily and forth day i rotate position under lights

its been said that cmh best for veg -cmh first 1/3 redus stretch second 1/3 hps best to get rock hard buds-last 1/3 weight gain of bud best to use cmh again
but instead i use them both all the time

gluck

Compare the lumen out put of, say, a 400w HPS, a 400w MH, and a 400w CMH. The CMH has significantly fewer lumens. Thats my only problem with them. (that and the cost) Spectrum wise they rock.

eb20 said:

Check out ebay or your local grow shop for dual spectrum or spectrum enhanced lamps... I am using a HiLux Gro HPS lamp, but what is nice is that it is spectrum enhanced. Meaning- while it is a HPS bulb, primarily in the 575-650nm range (red) it does have some distribution in the 425-475nm range. I used it for my whole grow last time and had superb results. Tight node spacing, good weight and penetration. A little pricey at $110, but worked great with the digital ballast too... I am working on a new DWC sog setup right now, small scale for personal medicine, but this might work for you: Cut clones from a mother plant, and once rooted, let them grow to around 6." Carefully trim all but the top bud sites, leaving fan leaves, and switch to 12/12, The tiny plant will stretch nicely and form one large cola that, depending on strain, will finish to be 12-18" long.

Or you can just top em to keep them short, but encourage lateral branching. Just be careful during the stretch cause they can get unruly and you might not want too much foliage competing for light.

I've heard that adding a few "cool white" CFLs helps balance the spectrum out...anyone else?

Click to expand...

oh man, dwc without a doubt is my favorite of all systems. so simple and powerfully productive.
didn't know about "dual spectrum bulbs" ah man Amazing.
The rest is like, the best advice/tips i could've hoped for too man. Thank you So much.
I have only hopes of having a 'motherplant' right now but I copy/pasted ^that.
one day your ears will ring and you'll know I pulled off your advice lol

Dwezelitsame said:

either one will do the job

i use both all the time a 250 eye hortilux -hps and a 250 cmh -philips all the time i throw in a uvb at week 3 of flower

i spin each pot 1/4 turn daily and forth day i rotate position under lights

its been said that cmh best for veg -cmh first 1/3 redus stretch second 1/3 hps best to get rock hard buds-last 1/3 weight gain of bud best to use cmh again
but instead i use them both all the time

gluck

Click to expand...

Yes! Returning to the mh as a final 'phase' was something a friend of mine had mentioned recently.
That's Brilliant to flower in thirds like that^