I think they're ROOT APHIDS !?

rickymac21

rickymac21

Well-Known Member
Like the title says I think I have been accompanied by some unwanted guests. I have my mother plants (which are still young. Only 4-5 week veg) in miracle grow moisture control. Most of the plants seem to be healthy but they do seem to be growing at a relatively slower rate than I'm used to. 3 of the nine plants are starting to wilt and turn yellowish starting at the bottom leaves.

The flying gnats have been around since week 1. After I germed the beans and put them into solo cups, I started to notice flying bugs (gnats?) ... I brushed it off as I have had gnats before and they didn't pose much of a threat to my plants. But now 4 weeks later these bugs are everywhere. I mean crawling over the top of the soil, on the rim of the pot, on the ceiling, the floor.. Everywhere you look your sure to find them..

Like I said, I originally thought they were just gnats, but then I read that if they appear to be coming from the bottom of the pots drainage holes, then they are winged root aphids. Sure enough, I checked my pots and I found gnats crawling around in there.. BUT thats not all, I found these tiny pale yellow/white things. They looked like bugs but they weren't moving, as if it was a shell/cocoon the gnats hatched out of.

I really don't know if it's root aphids or gnats, but either way I would like to save these ladies before it gets even more out of hand.

The two most effective things I've read that work are SNS203, and Bayer tree & shrub.. Apparently these work well and quick in killing root aphids in soil.
My question is which one should I use? And if you have used these against root aphids, what was the application rate and how many applications did it take?
 
I do apologize for making a thread so commonly posted... But being so commonly talked about, I have found countless threads with complete controversial advice.. I just want to make sure I can get some good advice from someone with experience using these products.


And since I already posted this thread, I suppose I'll ask this : How would one prevent root aphids? I know you can prevent gnats using sand and sticky traps, but Root Aphids seem to be something that comes in the medium we buy. So is there something I can do to my soil before I put my plants in pots? Or is there an additive to water with for the first week of veg that will prevent this? I just can't stand these bugs anymore and would like it if I never had to see one again..
 
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It's a large picture I know, But this little guy looks identical to what's flying around my room. And from what I've been reading, if you have these flying around, it's a sure bet that your badly infested...

Soooo sns203 or bayer tree and shrub? which one is going to kill these things for good.. Ive tried azamax but apparently they like the stuff
 
yellowing leaves, kinda looks like a deficiency? Sounds like ra symptoms.


If it is really ra and they are that bad you are fucked brother. Sorry. The key with ra is keeping them in check. If you have a severe infestation you need to treat them so hard it almost kills your plants.and will set them back 2-3 wks in growth at least.

I learned this the hard way.

sns203 is ok and works pretty well as a deterrent, it may kill some but they will come back.

imidacloprid is very effective but they seem to build up resistance to it pretty quickly. Hit them hard and often with this. like twice a week for around a month. I also used a mixture of orthene and riptide with great success but it is hard on the plants.

met 52 is supposed to be the best but i've never used it.

what I use is a concoction of azaguard,riptide,sns 203&209 and gognats. I use this as a drench every two to three weeks. and the girls seem to do fine with it.

Seriously, if you really have ra, they are no joke. these things make spider mites look like chumps.

a picture of the offending critter would be nice.

good luck brother.
 
joe macclennan said:
what I use is a concoction of azaguard,riptide,sns 203&209 and gognats. I use this as a drench every two to three weeks. and the girls seem to do fine with it.
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this is only has a preventative maintenance program. It will NOT take care of a severe infestation. You need orthene and riptide probably at least twice to get them in check...then if your plants are still alive you could use the concoction as a preventative after a couple of weeks.

Or you could try the imid. Google root aphid imidacloprid resistance for more info on this subject.
 
joe macclennan said:
yellowing leaves, kinda looks like a deficiency? Sounds like ra symptoms.


If it is really ra and they are that bad you are fucked brother. Sorry. The key with ra is keeping them in check. If you have a severe infestation you need to treat them so hard it almost kills your plants.and will set them back 2-3 wks in growth at least.

I learned this the hard way.

sns203 is ok and works pretty well as a deterrent, it may kill some but they will come back.

imidacloprid is very effective but they seem to build up resistance to it pretty quickly. Hit them hard and often with this. like twice a week for around a month. I also used a mixture of orthene and riptide with great success but it is hard on the plants.

met 52 is supposed to be the best but i've never used it.

what I use is a concoction of azaguard,riptide,sns 203&209 and gognats. I use this as a drench every two to three weeks. and the girls seem to do fine with it.

Seriously, if you really have ra, they are no joke. these things make spider mites look like chumps.

a picture of the offending critter would be nice.

good luck brother.
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Hell... This sucks... I think I might just go ahead and chop them up and make clones of them :wall:

how long can these things survive without roots or plant matter to thrive on? I ask because I still have a crap ton of my miracle grow that I would use after the clones root. But I don't want to run into the same problem. I realize I need to clean the room and sterilize it to rid of any dwelling bugs. But you say you use azaguard, riptide, sns203 and 209, and gognats just to prevent these things from infesting??? Seems like a lot.. I would imagine there's a simple one time application to prevent the whole way through. I'm sure that's wrong though...
 
joe macclennan said:
this is only has a preventative maintenance program. It will NOT take care of a severe infestation. You need orthene and riptide probably at least twice to get them in check...then if your plants are still alive you could use the concoction as a preventative after a couple of weeks.

Or you could try the imid. Google root aphid imidacloprid resistance for more info on this subject.
Click to expand...

Yea I seriously think I'm just going to take clones and clean the room... I'll get some preventive supplies like you suggested but I think my girls are too infested... They seem healthy now but I can't live with myself knowing that they are being eaten alive, whether I'm controlling the situation or not. It's sad and it's definitely a set back, but I just want these things gone for good. And since these are my mother plants, they will be around for a while, along with the RA's. So I might as well get rid of them now and prevent them from coming back instead of having a continuous battle.
 
rickymac21 said:
Hell... This sucks... I think I might just go ahead and chop them up and make clones of them :wall:

how long can these things survive without roots or plant matter to thrive on? I ask because I still have a crap ton of my miracle grow that I would use after the clones root. But I don't want to run into the same problem. I realize I need to clean the room and sterilize it to rid of any dwelling bugs. But you say you use azaguard, riptide, sns203 and 209, and gognats just to prevent these things from infesting??? Seems like a lot.. I would imagine there's a simple one time application to prevent the whole way through. I'm sure that's wrong though...
Click to expand...

chopping would deffinitely be easier than trying to save them if they are bad enough you can see them.

that's the thing with ra. In nymph stage they are so tiny you almost can't see em. If they get bad enough you can see em with the naked eye or worse yet...fliers. They are waaaay out of control.

Yes, that is the concoction I came up with. I am not saying I absolutely need all of the ingredients but the little bastards really don't like it. The azaguard is systemic,riptide is a contact killer, the sns and gognats work as repellents.

you can try the orthene riptide combo if you like. it does kill them, but may kill your plants, and the fucking bugs will probably come back anyway, without follow up treatments of something.

seriously, if you have ra, and are able to the best solution is to shut down completely. sterilize everything and just leave the place sit empty for a couple months. I know this is probably not practical for you, it wasn't for me. I am not being dramatic here. These things very nearly put me out of business. I still have them, probably always will. control is the best I can hope for being perpetual and all.

been going over six months now.

the life cycle of ra is around three weeks I believe.
 
rickymac21 said:
Yea I seriously think I'm just going to take clones and clean the room... I'll get some preventive supplies like you suggested but I think my girls are too infested... They seem healthy now but I can't live with myself knowing that they are being eaten alive, whether I'm controlling the situation or not. It's sad and it's definitely a set back, but I just want these things gone for good. And since these are my mother plants, they will be around for a while, along with the RA's. So I might as well get rid of them now and prevent them from coming back instead of having a continuous battle.
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good idea, make super sure your clones are clean, and all equiptment used for cloning has been sterilized with strong bleach.

The plants will look pretty healthy through veg. even being infested most times. It is around four weeks into flower when they really start showing deff. symptoms.

If you are seeing deff. symptoms in veg. it is too late.

these fucking things are a nightmare.
 
I got them about a year ago and used evergreen (i thnk riptide is a better buy last time i checked) as a root dunk, also sprayed whole grow area inside and out. also added to water 1x a week for @ a month and @ 1x a month since. have not seen another one since first treatment, but i have a small grow and i probably got lucky. you would need to treat any other plant in the house and get rid of the extra soil as well. getting rid of the plants will probably not get rid of them, they are persistant.
 
1itsme said:
I got them about a year ago and used evergreen (i thnk riptide is a better buy last time i checked) as a root dunk, also sprayed whole grow area inside and out. also added to water 1x a week for @ a month and @ 1x a month since. have not seen another one since first treatment, but i have a small grow and i probably got lucky. you would need to treat any other plant in the house and get rid of the extra soil as well. getting rid of the plants will probably not get rid of them, they are persistant.
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I tried adding the evergreen/riptide to my rez and got major slime blooms. even with the bleach. and, yes the riptide is a better buy.

and I agree, chopping the plants is not enough. A very thorough deep clean is in order. walls,lights,floor,everything.

hey op since you are in dirt, I would deff. invest in some met52. You add it to the soil when you pot them. It is a bacteria grown on rice. I have never used it but everything I have heard is the stuff is about the best out there for ra. At least this way you are covered if you miss one in your cleaning, and since the nymphs are smaller than a grain of sand it is very likely you will.
 
I am gonna try the orthene riptide again in veg soon I think. Just at a lower dose. I may have mixed it a little too strong before. There is no good dosage rate information available when used as a drench. The mixing rate on the label is intended for drench outdoors, like trees and stuff.
 
that would be hard to do in dwc. the natural pyrethrum is a bunch of organic matter not a prob in soil but leaving in the res seems bad.
 
I feel like I am fighting a phantom sometimes....I can't see em.....but I know they are there
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actually, I saw some swimming in my ebb buckets the other day so I just did a drench with "the concoction"
 
1itsme said:
I was surprised when the calhypo didn't kill them
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I still add around 2 oz of the 2grams/gallon solution per 50 gallons every rez. change. I occasionally have to put 4 oz in, but this is only to keep algae and shit at bay, and helps keep my ph stable. Really only cuz I cannot clean my big tray out. I am in the process of building smaller trays.
1itsme said:
I'm in coco dtw.
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ahh, I see.

I have been thinking about busting out my nft systems to see if the little bastards can survive while getting misted every minute.

If I can't get rid of em w/poison maybe I can drown the little sumbitches.
 
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