IC Driven COB LEDs Experiences? Advise?

ssj4jonathan

ssj4jonathan

Well-Known Member
110v-220v-LED-Floodlight-20W-30W-50W-Cool.jpg Anyone build a successful rig using direct AC powered IC LEDs? Searched the threads and found only three hits; not much enthusiasm it seems.

However, given the price and ease of setup, I suspect this new breed of LED will be the preferred LED array setup in the future. $30 plus for 1 Cree COB, on top of a $150 plus meanwhile driver was too much to swallow, not to mention the heat management. So instead why not spend $30 on this new LED technology and focus most of your funds on a state of the art heat management system?

I've seen most YouTube videos on the subject and the main problem people are complaining about has to do with the 60hz flicker. I'm under the impression that shouldn't matter much when growing. And besides the potential electrical shock due to human error, this type of new LED has winner written all over it.

Some questions I have for my 12 -- 50 watt COB setup: Which wire gauge should be used. Are 8 way wago nuts good enough to join 6 COBs in parallel. How can I securely mount a COB without screws? Safety precautions? Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
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CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
ssj4jonathan said:
$30 plus for 1 Cree COB, on top of a $150 plus meanwhile driver was too much to swallow, not to mention the heat management.
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because
1. thats not going to be nearly as efficient as the cobs we typically use
2. meanwell drivers arent $150 (well some are but they are big ass drivers). drivers are typically about 30 cent a watt for something with great efficiency that you can spray with a hose and it lasts a decade or more
3. with the way people wire cobs id personally rather see people running low power DC circuits than soldering 110V AC to a chip (and then having exposed AC terminals in their garden
4. theres absolutely nothing about that chip that helps with "heat management". In fact its low efficiency will only create more heat for you to deal with)

in short you get what you pay for. there are high quality versions of these made by citizen and others btw. or if you want to keep it close there are all kinds of $2-$5 lightbulbs at home depot and walmart that are as at least as efficient as these and also have built in ac>dc driver boards... and use standard light sockets which are a lot safer. see this thread

https://www.rollitup.org/t/got-my-ge-brightstiks.896869/
 
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VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
ssj4jonathan said:
View attachment 3951521 Anyone build a successful rig using direct AC powered IC LEDs? Searched the threads and found only three hits; not much enthusiasm it seems.

However, given the price and ease of setup, I suspect this new breed of LED will be the preferred LED array setup in the future. $30 plus for 1 Cree COB, on top of a $150 plus meanwhile driver was too much to swallow, not to mention the heat management. So instead why not spend $30 on this new LED technology and focus most of your funds on a state of the art heat management system?

I've seen most YouTube videos on the subject and the main problem people are complaining about has to do with the 60hz flicker. I'm under the impression that shouldn't matter much when growing. And besides the potential electrical shock due to human error, this type of new LED has winner written all over it.

Some questions I have for my 12 -- 50 watt COB setup: Which wire gauge should be used. Are 8 way wago nuts good enough to join 6 COBs in parallel. How can I securely mount a COB without screws? Safety precautions? Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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One poster at another site was looking at the same thing. There is a youtibe video on how these work. Not that bad really. But, pone person used a few and one failed in the first 30 days. I use some full spectrum cobs from ebay and have used them daily for six months now and n o failures. they also make various kelvins from 3000k-5000k, in whites. The Forward Voltage Vf is 30-32v each and they can be wired in series just like other cobs, only cheaper.
namaste
 
nfhiggs

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with the other two posters, if you're not experienced working with AC mains enough to know how to figure out what gauge wires to use for your particular application, then I would suggest sticking with the low(er) voltage DC stuff for now. /sermon
ssj4jonathan said:
View attachment 3951521

Some questions I have for my 12 -- 50 watt COB setup: Which wire gauge should be used. Are 8 way wago nuts good enough to join 6 COBs in parallel. How can I securely mount a COB without screws? Safety precautions? Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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I would avoid WAGOs entirely and use power distribution terminal strips mounted in a project case, with the line side properly fused for the total load,. I would include a separate ground wire to each heatsink, and a grounded three prong power plug. Liberal amounts or silicone RTV over all the exposed solder terminals of the cobs. I would do six COBs per distribution box.

If you don't want to mess with screws you can use Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive to mount COBs to a sink.
 
ssj4jonathan

ssj4jonathan

Well-Known Member
These two videos have been very helpful in understanding how the integrated chips drive the LEDs. Only discrepancy is that they're running the 220VAC versions of the 25 watters. If only I can find some numbers on the 110v 50 watt versions. Thinking specs on the 50 watt LEDs will be Vf 30-34, Amps .5, RMS VAC 130, Watts 54, Pf 90??



My math may be way off but if the IC driver chip wastes about 15 - 20% of electricity and flickering at a 50% duty cycle does this make them 30% more efficient than regular LEDS with constant power or are the chips eating up all the current when LEDS are off?

Currently piecing together 2 dimmable 6 50 watt COB rigs. I was planning on doing everything in parallel but now that you mentioned it VegasWinner, wiring 3 COBs in series and then running two identical sets in parallel might work for each 6 COB rig.

COBKITS, I search around for citizens version of IC LEDs and came up empty handed. I believe you either way, as all big manufactures should be producing linear drive COB LEDS sooner than later. These LEDS are the next step up in technology.
 
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CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
ssj4jonathan

ssj4jonathan

Well-Known Member
Finally got my order in... from eBay. As story goes: the bait and switch is alive and healthy. Just wanted to warn everyone, seller baoshenghk is passing off 20w warm and cold COB as 50w versions. Waited 3 weeks for nothing and I'm out 8 dollars. Just my luck.... now have another week to get this resolved. Anyways here's a sneak peak on my prototype water cooled rig. Don't try this at home!
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I didn't have too high an opinion of the 220 version of these COBs, figured they just were too dangerous. None the less, I recently ordered 10 ea. 110 volt 50 watt warm white COBs and four of the full spectrum grow version. At a couple of bucks a piece they were hard to pass up, so buying a few for testing didn't break the bank. I have several unused heavy air cooled fixtures that can easily deal with a couple of hundred watts worth of COBs and I'm curious about how these things will perform. They might just be the thing to help poor folks grow their own medicine, I can't see how it can get much cheaper than this.

If these things work for growing plants and I can't see why they shouldn't (plants don't mind 60 Hz flicker). They should dramatically lower the the cost for low end entry level systems and put huge price pressure on the manufactures of conventional LEDs and COBs. At $2 US each, a person could build a 500 watt grow light for $20. US for the cost of the COBs, plus whatever you can get away with for heat sinking. Think about that for a minute and image what you could do with a couple of hundred bucks worth of these COBs and some heat sinks.

Dunno if I would try these on a water cooled fixture, but a well grounded air cooled fixture running the 110 volt version should be safe enough. Here's my thread and I'll post my experiences with them there and perhaps here too.
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
If these things work for growing plants and I can't see why they shouldn't (plants don't mind 60 Hz flicker). They should dramatically lower the the cost for low end entry level systems and put huge price pressure on the manufactures of conventional LEDs and COBs. At $2 US each, a person could build a 500 watt grow light for $20.
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Yes but youre still well over $150 with even cheap drivers and heatsinks. Its probably less efficient than an HPS combo which is cheaper. I cant speak for everybody but id rather spend $50 on cobs for a more efficient 500W grow light that would save me that $30 in a few months and more thereafter, as well as last a lot longer.

if you want to send me one of the $2 cobs ill measure it against some other cobs. not trying to be a naysayer but just based on other peoples experiences (including the post right above yours) dont get too excited till you lay your hands on them
 
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VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
ssj4jonathan said:
Finally got my order in... from eBay. As story goes: the bait and switch is alive and healthy. Just wanted to warn everyone, seller baoshenghk is passing off 20w warm and cold COB as 50w versions. Waited 3 weeks for nothing and I'm out 8 dollars. Just my luck.... now have another week to get this resolved. Anyways here's a sneak peak on my prototype water cooled rig. Don't try this at home!
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I have a couple of reputable sellers I would gladly share with you if you like. I have had only two bad experience4s, one was a sale of some inexpensive4 project boxes; Hong Kong, and another was for a KODI box; Texas. goods luck I buy a lot thru ebay for parts not available in the USA any longer.
 
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VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
I didn't have too high an opinion of the 220 version of these COBs, figured they just were too dangerous. None the less, I recently ordered 10 ea. 110 volt 50 watt warm white COBs and four of the full spectrum grow version. At a couple of bucks a piece they were hard to pass up, so buying a few for testing didn't break the bank. I have several unused heavy air cooled fixtures that can easily deal with a couple of hundred watts worth of COBs and I'm curious about how these things will perform. They might just be the thing to help poor folks grow their own medicine, I can't see how it can get much cheaper than this.

If these things work for growing plants and I can't see why they shouldn't (plants don't mind 60 Hz flicker). They should dramatically lower the the cost for low end entry level systems and put huge price pressure on the manufactures of conventional LEDs and COBs. At $2 US each, a person could build a 500 watt grow light for $20. US for the cost of the COBs, plus whatever you can get away with for heat sinking. Think about that for a minute and image what you could do with a couple of hundred bucks worth of these COBs and some heat sinks.

Dunno if I would try these on a water cooled fixture, but a well grounded air cooled fixture running the 110 volt version should be safe enough. Here's my thread and I'll post my experiences with them there and perhaps here too.
Click to expand...
I have some 100w, 50w, 30w, and 20w full spectrum cobs and I have no complaints for 6 months now. Use them daily and some 24/7. I use the driver version, you can rtun them on lpc60, and many other meanwell drivers. I stay away from the driverless cobs, just too much current to close for my comfort.
 
frica

frica

Well-Known Member
Thermal management is harder since the heat output is more concen.

trated.

LED bulbs are already significantly more efficient!

efficiency is important since quality COBs not called Cree are already very cheap.
Meanwell drivers are worth the investment.

There's really no need to cut corners.
You can already go under 1 dollar/watt with smart building and lights that are much more efficient.
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
VegasWinner said:
I have some 100w, 50w, 30w, and 20w full spectrum cobs and I have no complaints for 6 months now
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can you elaborate on what you mean by "full spectrum". that term gets abused and means different things to different people

seems like for americans, full spectrum means "white light"
if youre a chinese seller, full spectrum means red+blue
im assuming you mean red-augmented white but describing that as full sp[ectrum (even if it is the most complete in your opinion) doesnt tell us a whole lot.

otherwise somebody is going to take your advice that "full spectrum" is the best then go buy some shitty di-chromatic fixture off of ebay.
 
REALSTYLES

REALSTYLES

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
can you elaborate on what you mean by "full spectrum". that term gets abused and means different things to different people

seems like for americans, full spectrum means "white light"
if youre a chinese seller, full spectrum means red+blue
im assuming you mean red-augmented white but describing that as full sp[ectrum (even if it is the most complete in your opinion) doesnt tell us a whole lot.

otherwise somebody is going to take your advice that "full spectrum" is the best then go buy some shitty di-chromatic fixture off of ebay.
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You can add them to your white cobs to fill in the missing IR and UV so you don't have to spend a lot of money on.
 
nfhiggs

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
ssj4jonathan said:
Finally got my order in... from eBay. As story goes: the bait and switch is alive and healthy. Just wanted to warn everyone, seller baoshenghk is passing off 20w warm and cold COB as 50w versions. Waited 3 weeks for nothing and I'm out 8 dollars. Just my luck.... now have another week to get this resolved. Anyways here's a sneak peak on my prototype water cooled rig. Don't try this at home!
Click to expand...
I've bought from that seller, and he has done me right - he even sent a replacement COB no question asked, when I told him one of them had a string shorted to the backplate (it works fine, just can't ground the heatsink its on).
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
nfhiggs said:
when I told him one of them had a string shorted to the backplate (it works fine, just can't ground the heatsink its on).
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i think this is a good example of the kind of stuff you have to deal with if youre gonna go super budge. fine if youre adept but can be dangerous for the average cob user
 
NoFucks2Give

NoFucks2Give

Well-Known Member
ssj4jonathan said:
flickering at a 50% duty cycle does this make them 30% more efficient than regular LEDS with constant power
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No, not true. You are better off using unswitched current.

REALSTYLES said:
fill in the missing IR and UV
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Missing UV and IR??? You do not want either. UV is used to kill living things. IR is just heat.

CobKits said:
full spectrum means "white light"
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Full spectrum is using multiple wavelength mono LEDs, where white is broad spectrum.
I know it is not the popular opinion here but I say Deep Red and Deep Blue is the way to go if possible. CoBs make a relatively simple DYI rig but mono LEDs will always be more efficient. IMHO.
DIY-HP-LED said:
. At $2 US each, a person could build a 500 watt grow light for $20.
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Not really, they still need to be powered and cooled. Efficacy is a very important in keeping cost down over the long haul. The cost of the CoB should not be the deciding factor.

Spectrum quality, efficacy, and thermal management much more important than cost. What is the thermal resistance of the $2 CoBs? How does temperature affect flux? What is the real life efficacy? There is a thing about penny wise pound foolish, likely applies here.
 
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