IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

Actually I'm gonna revise my LED/Induction lighting rule up to 33 watts per square foot. That should equate to what an Apache AT600 puts out in watts per square foot, since it actually pulls around 660 watts. So, 6 of the latest Area 51 should still cover a 4'x8'.

This rule should work for any quality panel or bulb, etc...

BlackMesa said:

You shouldn't say "We" because your opinion certainly doesn't include me! I have great success with the LG's and other cheap Chinese panels. 1 GPW is easily achievable with the LG's and with the price so low it works out well for me. I would go even as far as to say that if you can't get damn near close to 1 gram per watt then your doing it wrong and it's grower's error. I have 3 years of consistent results.

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You're right, that "we" doesn't include you.
It includes those on this board who consistently post in the LED sub-forum and give help to others.
You do neither of those things.

Bad Karma said:

You're right, that "we" doesn't include you.
It includes those on this board who consistently post in the LED sub-forum and give help to others.
You do neither of those things.

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The right thing to do should have been to simply acknowledge that this board isn't a hive mentality, but a collective of individuals with varying opinions that's easily demonstrated by the very history of the led section.

I have contributed my fair share of both helping, write ups and experiments to add to collective data projects here and on other forums. Regardless I have 3+ years of working with Chinese panels so I'm qualified to open my mouth on such subjects.

BlackMesa said:

The right thing to do should have been to simply acknowledge that this board isn't a hive mentality, but a collective of individuals with varying opinions that's easily demonstrated by the very history of the led section.

I have contributed my fair share of both helping, write ups and experiments to add to collective data projects here and on other forums. Regardless I have 3+ years of working with Chinese panels so I'm qualified to open my mouth on such subjects.

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We're not a hive mentality here, you right about that.
You should see some of the spats that the regulars have had on here, but we always congeal back together pretty quickly.
Those of us who have tried multiple LED brands, cheap and expensive, have better insight into the LED growing experience (aka more qualified).
So if you've only grown with cheap Chinese panels, your perspective is limited, in comparison (aka less qualified).
Outside of your very recent return, you haven't posted in the LED forum in how long, at least 12-18 months?
Wasn't the reason you left our company to begin with was because you couldn't get anyone to agree with your views?

Bad Karma said:

We're not a hive mentality here, you right about that.
You should see some of the spats that the regulars have had on here, but we always congeal back together pretty quickly.
Those of us who have tried multiple LED brands, cheap and expensive, have better insight into the LED growing experience (aka more qualified).
So if you've only grown with cheap Chinese panels, your perspective is limited, in comparison (aka less qualified).
Outside of your very recent return, you haven't posted in the LED forum in how long, at least 12-18 months?
Wasn't the reason you left our company to begin with was because you couldn't get anyone to agree with your views?

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You are correct that I have only used cheap panels, 140 watts to 600 watts actual, I am also highly skilled in DWC which in my opinion is an absolute match for led lighting. I average at the 1 GPW ratio, so have had absolutely no reason to upgrade to high end panels. If I ever did upgrade it would be for the sake of reliability which is the weakest link in Chinese panels "my opinion", but cheap panels are damn near hitting $100 for 180 watts actual so having a back up or 2 is still "worth it" to me.

I have never had any clashing views, closest topic may have been regarding defoliating or the famous multiple smaller wattage vs single larger wattage panel debate which is now "generally" accepted. I drift into lurker from time to time and have embarked on a few cbd/thc 1:1 projects but am never engaged in drama and have an open mind in regards to every ones views and opinions.

BlackMesa said:

The right thing to do should have been to simply acknowledge that this board isn't a hive mentality, but a collective of individuals with varying opinions that's easily demonstrated by the very history of the led section.

I have contributed my fair share of both helping, write ups and experiments to add to collective data projects here and on other forums. Regardless I have 3+ years of working with Chinese panels so I'm qualified to open my mouth on such subjects.

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Thanks for the input, it is helpful. I'm really just trying to find a cheap alternative to make it through the summer. I'm no expert still trying to figure it out so I'm really not ready to drop $1500 on lighting.

BlackMesa said:

I have never had any clashing views

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Really?
You posted this today in another thread, and got shot down there, too.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/who-says-led-doesnt-grow-big-flowers.822743/#post-10390036

BlackMesa said:

Whoever says cheap panels can't grow big buds has never tried to use them or are defending their much more expensive purchase.

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FranJan said:

No one say that BM, only you do to justify the fact you don't understand how LEDs work and are too dirt poor to afford efficient ones that would increase your yield and definitly lower your ebill. (Just using your own logic there. Like it?)

After reading what you say I'm gonna send back my two 80 watt Hans panels and put back the 300 watt monster they replaced. Fuck, I like giving money to Consolidated Edison. And to dickhead Asians that hate me and my way of life. NOT.

BM do you really think you're the only one who knows how to grow with LEDs? And for the record I've owned Blackstars, VIPARs, and LED Star brand panels and they don't compare to my Hans, Illumitex or even my CREE lightbulbs. So BM do us all a favor and post your grows to teach us how it's all done. Or shut the eff up with ya bs.

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hyroot said:

Most of us that hate on cheap chinese leds' actually used them . I started out with apollos myself. I got good results. But they fail. They drive the leds to max capacity and it causes the leds to fry sooner than later. Also cheap leds take 2-3 times tthe wattage to cover the same area as high end leds.

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m Stay away from those outlooking good built products , actually they are shit . Go with really good quality USA made led grow lights ,guys .

Cheaper price , worse quality as above . So stay away from those Rebranded Chinese LED Grow light .

Bad Karma said:

Really?
You posted this today in another thread, and got shot down there, too.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/who-says-led-doesnt-grow-big-flowers.822743/#post-10390036

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Bad, bad, bad karma .........ouch

WonderHippy said:

Thanks for the input, it is helpful. I'm really just trying to find a cheap alternative to make it through the summer. I'm no expert still trying to figure it out so I'm really not ready to drop $1500 on lighting.

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Your very welcome, that has been my mind set when getting into led's at the start. Totally makes sense to start with minimum investment to get a feel and then make a decision on how to proceed from there. =)

Bad Karma said:

We're not a hive mentality here, you right about that.
You should see some of the spats that the regulars have had on here, but we always congeal back together pretty quickly.
Those of us who have tried multiple LED brands, cheap and expensive, have better insight into the LED growing experience (aka more qualified).
So if you've only grown with cheap Chinese panels, your perspective is limited, in comparison (aka less qualified).
Outside of your very recent return, you haven't posted in the LED forum in how long, at least 12-18 months?
Wasn't the reason you left our company to begin with was because you couldn't get anyone to agree with your views?

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Before you guys argue anymore, I asked about the LG lights because I wanted input on them. Not for everyone to bash them. They have decent enough rep around, they work for a lot of people.

WonderHippy said:

Before you guys argue anymore, I asked about the LG lights because I wanted input on them. Not for everyone to bash them. They have decent enough rep around, they work for a lot of people.

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I have a grow going with them right now (sig) to determine whether I'll use them for flowering going forward. Well documented and in a stable environment. I have 5 of them and they definitely have a place in my clone/seedling and veg cycles, just not sure whether they can flower to my liking yet. I had a lot of other environmental issues in past grows and was not happy with the outcome but the lights were not the blame/problem, I was.

My 2 cents on the LG or any chinese panels: They're all risky, if you're willing to take some risk there are some that will be fine for a hobby grow or to get a feel for growing with LED's, they are quite different than growing with more traditional lighting. For the price, for a hobby grow with no pressure to produce, I would recommend the LG's for vegging right now, flowering will be determined in about 8 weeks when this round finishes. From a quality/reliability perspective, I've had 5, a couple running for 6 months + almost constantly, have not had a single problem/break/failure, other than one had a loose hanger screw which was tightened easily enough and had no affect on performance.

Are they the same or as good as some of the established brands? I'd say no, if you want proven results and little risk, go with an A51 or Hans.

Do they provide decent value for the price? I'd say yes, the price is low enough that a couple of grows would more than pay back initial investment. They're also priced low enough to have a spare on hand.

imo, there is no right or wrong on this subject. It all depends on the level of risk you're willing to accept and whether your typical buying habits are to go with brand name/established brands vs. taking some risk on knock off's. No different than buying a car or any high ticket item. You can buy a car new and pay for it, you can buy used an take some risk but save a ton of money. I personally have not bought a new car off a dealer lot for 15-20 years, I'm willing to take some risk and have done quite well buying almost new, low mileage, second hand cars and motorcycles off auto trader and kijiji. Personal choice imo.

GroErr said:

I have a grow going with them right now (sig) to determine whether I'll use them for flowering going forward. Well documented and in a stable environment. I have 5 of them and they definitely have a place in my clone/seedling and veg cycles, just not sure whether they can flower to my liking yet. I had a lot of other environmental issues in past grows and was not happy with the outcome but the lights were not the blame/problem, I was.

My 2 cents on the LG or any chinese panels: They're all risky, if you're willing to take some risk there are some that will be fine for a hobby grow or to get a feel for growing with LED's, they are quite different than growing with more traditional lighting. For the price, for a hobby grow with no pressure to produce, I would recommend the LG's for vegging right now, flowering will be determined in about 8 weeks when this round finishes. From a quality/reliability perspective, I've had 5, a couple running for 6 months + almost constantly, have not had a single problem/break/failure, other than one had a loose hanger screw which was tightened easily enough and had no affect on performance.

Are they the same or as good as some of the established brands? I'd say no, if you want proven results and little risk, go with an A51 or Hans.

Do they provide decent value for the price? I'd say yes, the price is low enough that a couple of grows would more than pay back initial investment. They're also priced low enough to have a spare on hand.

imo, there is no right or wrong on this subject. It all depends on the level of risk you're willing to accept and whether your typical buying habits are to go with brand name/established brands vs. taking some risk on knock off's. No different than buying a car or any high ticket item. You can buy a car new and pay for it, you can buy used an take some risk but save a ton of money. I personally have not bought a new car off a dealer lot for 15-20 years, I'm willing to take some risk and have done quite well buying almost new, low mileage, second hand cars and motorcycles off auto trader and kijiji. Personal choice imo.

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Great reply, thank you. That is one of the upsides to this if i do purchase them I will run them for veg afterwords, hoping to establish a veg room and pick some mothers next grow.

WonderHippy said:

Great reply, thank you. That is one of the upsides to this if i do purchase them I will run them for veg afterwords, hoping to establish a veg room and pick some mothers next grow.

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That's my take on them as well, at minimum I'll use them for vegging going forward. That I know they can do, have vegged 3 rounds now and they perform well. A higher end light could do better but they're good enough for me. At the price point levels I like the flexibility of having extra panels around for emergencies and to play around with new stuff, like trying 12/12 from seed using one of the smaller "150W"panels. It'll also give me longer life on a Inda-Gro 420 induction light I'll be adding to my flower room, just waiting for my 10 day old babies to grow up

So I finally gave up trying to get one of those iBeam induction lights, ordered a Sublime Illuminations 670 watt hybrid LED Induction instead. It's built by Bysen, but Sublime has it's own spectrum, it's serviced in the U.S., and the guy isn't trying to hide anything. I know exactly what I'm getting, the heatsinks, diodes and lenses aren't quite as top notch as HGL (or as expensive)...

Whatever, it's the only light with induction/cfl/led bulb sockets sticking out, and the square foot coverage cost is by far the best among options I'm looking at. If I like it I'll get more, or the next new thing in LED. In the winter I'll probably stick with Metal Halide. HPS gives me headaches.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sublime-illuminations-leds/457812694290128

http://www.sublimeilluminationsleds.com/

If you scroll down the Facebook page there are some nice images and LED info. He's got good deals on Helios too.

CaliWorthington said:

So I finally gave up trying to get one of those iBeam induction lights, ordered a Sublime Illuminations 670 watt hybrid LED Induction instead. It's built by Bysen, but Sublime has it's own spectrum, it's serviced in the U.S., and the guy isn't trying to hide anything. I know exactly what I'm getting, the heatsinks, diodes and lenses aren't quite as top notch as HGL (or as expensive)...

Whatever, it's the only light with induction/cfl/led bulb sockets sticking out, and the square foot coverage cost is by far the best among options I'm looking at. If I like it I'll get more, or the next new thing in LED. In the winter I'll probably stick with Metal Halide. HPS gives me headaches.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sublime-illuminations-leds/457812694290128

http://www.sublimeilluminationsleds.com/

If you scroll down the Facebook page there are some nice images and LED info. He's got good deals on Helios too.

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So you bought a rebranded led panel from a guy who does all his R&D videos in his 'bedroom"..........yeah that makes sense

should have stuck with the brotherhood Ibeam.....................damn I'm cranky, I need a smoke break.

PSUAGRO. said:

So you bought a rebranded led panel from a guy who does all his R&D videos in his 'bedroom"..........yeah that makes sense

should have stuck with the brotherhood Ibeam.....................damn I'm cranky, I need a smoke break.

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Good one. I spoke with a shop that tested the ibeam, they were not impressed. Yeah I suppose it's rebranded, except the spectrum is different. Like I said, whatever, I don't give a shit about so-called "American built LED" drama. Bysen has 36 patents. Something better will come along very soon I'm sure. Have a nice smoke bro.

For the record, nothing against higher quality "American made" LEDs, but when you need multiples, the cost really starts to add up. Maybe later I'll get something more expensive. Or if this sucks, I'll be the first to admit it.

I liked the fact that Kessil was using LEDs to successfully grow coral in aquariums.

I tried a few of the Home Depot and Walmart led light bulbs and found one interesting fact. The Walmart light attracts and kills gnats!

Greetings all. This is my first post and second grow. Last grow i was convinced to use an hps and it was an almost total failure since I don't have the ventilation.

However I was given a GLH spectra 300w free (no markings and all I got was the company name growledhydro I assume its not the 290 since the power draw is 305w)

I'm having some trouble with this light and I think its due to height placement and maybe the girls are too young for that intensity at 24” There seem to be some conflict on this light and no direct info for this specific light's hight. IMHO this thing is super powerful since it turned my tomato seedlings purple and crisped the leaves. A week after i put them in the window they started to recover. I'm no teven sure if the light puts out the right spectrum.

Plants are 30 days old (amnesia lemon, nlx diamond auto, super haze, and red poison auto) and only 3" tall!!!!!!! Is 3" normal for that age? My daphadills are tripple the size and started showing the same day. i planted on 3/7/14 - The NLX diamond auto is super small compared to the rest and its leaves are so green they feel brittle. Its almost like I burned them with the light of god. I figured the plants were just getting too much light and never stretched. I raised the light for a week and they started showing signs of N defficinacy. The red poison and super haze seem ok, but again..seemingly stunted with N def signs. The red poison is an auto and already showing hairs on top...at 3"...seems odd and that's why I'm posting.

I've since moved the girls under some clf's and though the plants don't look healthier at least the Red poison and super haze are screeching now after 24 hours. I ordered the apollo gp60led as a backup and just to try another led and see my results.

Last grow I got clones that went straight into flower. My buddy that was helping me in exchange for computer repair gave me the clones was wasnt sharing info with me and turned out to be a pushy closed minded LED hater. Would have been nice to also have brought one over I could a cloned but oh well.

I figured maybe I need a par meter to place this beast since some of the glh light are inconsistent. Not sure...

Advice welcomed, and info on both lights I mentioned too.