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fatc2k3

Well-Known Member
jcmjrt said:
Did you not say that it's 28 x 19...so over 2ft x about 1 1/2ft...which isn't really small. I'd go for one Hans Panel and maybe add a couple warm white CFLs in the corners for a little white light (a little white light is a nice thing). You might want to talk with Eraserhead how well the area51 would do at 28 x 19...it's close on being maybe a little overkill but you've got some height to work with...talk with him...it doesn't cost anything and he seems like a straight guy.
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will def look at hans panel , already got some cfls, will see if eraserhead can offer some advice.

thx for your help.
 
tags420

tags420

Well-Known Member
starcraftguy1988 said:
10 to 12 Apache's will cost you between 8-13 k depending on their bartering policies at apache. And unless I see people getting more than 1g a watt from a unit like that, i wont pay 7$ a watt because its just a bit much for any light, think about it.... Once you include water ,electricity, nutes(if u use them)medium, systems, tents, Etc... for one of those lights to be profitable in a grow scenario, my rule of thumb is that the light must pay for itself atleast on every run. So yeah if you can get 160 -180gs off that Apache tech then I'd say its well worth the 1099 or whatever you work out, that's looking like some money made on the light, but if your closer to the 80 to 120 area, you aren't even breaking even on the light, minus everything else!! The only way id Get those lights is if I had capitol to purchase 10 -12 or more of them, and id only do it if they made me an incredible offer, allowing my minimum harvest to go down significantly.
I guess I didn't take into account those who just grow for themselves, but honestly no one Ever used 12 Apache's to grow their own medical stash, without parting some of that off for reimbursment, or donations, or whatever you want to say. Just saying as most people on here are normal folks IE: poor/middle class without 10s of thousands of dollars to spend on lighting it makes more sense to give them advice on good to ok lights that are More reasonably priced, Like Blackstar, cidly(apollo), eshine(Manufacturer of Advanced LED), California Lightworks=good choice, Area 51=good choice as you said, The HANS panel and many others that are developing as we speak. These are much better choices for people who do not have money for APACHE/LUMIGROW.....Because im pretty sure that everyone would have those lights in their grow journals/rooms if they could afford them. I wont lie tho I'm set on getting 2 of the Lumigrow 650s ES after a few harvests those things look fucking solid! and still at about 3 $ a watt, its more affordable than Apache at 7$ a watt considering That 4 Apaches wouldn't out perform 1 lumigrow 650 es by enough to make the price paid worth it. 4 Apaches = 600 -620 watts at the plug roughly, 1 Lumigrow 650 es=600-650 watts/ 4 Apaches = $4000/ 1Lumigrow 650= $1600, the results here are pretty obvious.....
At the end of the day, its all opinion anyways. If you have the money, then should do whatever you want... Good luck with your lighting quest!!! took me roughlly a month to decide on a company/light but i also researched every day until i just couldnt any more. So yeah Id say if you were still choosing between the area 51 and apache, Area 51 is an easy choice as their warranty is unbeatable, and their product is awesome, at a reasonable price. Once again Good luck and godspeed!
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I have given out freely the code to get apache's for $750(Code:RBK331). And if you are buying 10+ units then you definitely get a break lower than that. I understand that even $750 is more than A51 which is why I said until the new AT's are ready...buy A51. Because they are basically the same lights(output). But when the new apache's are in they will be very different light and easily worth the extra $250.

And when the new units come out that code will continue to work for discounts for every model.
They have new better chips for every model...I should have official output numbers on soon.
And the AT480 is (4)AT120's in one housing and it is going to be like $2000-$2300 I think. It covers a 4x4 fully and intensely everywhere.

My best work with the current At120's is about 8oz per light. And the guy in the quest for the best LED video did 6oz per light. New lights with 2x the output should up that quite a bit though.
Funny how the AT120 has been out for 4 years and just now is everyone trying to get the best copy of them currently out. The price difference I understand, but the A51 isn't some new revolutionary light.
But it is very good and affordable so I support it. Not to mention they are top notch in policy(warranty) and transparency to customers.


Edit:
By the time I finished this 3 people posted
Edit#2:
hyroot said:
^^^ you pay for what you get.,.. blackdog, stealthgrow , and a few others are $2000 for the same foot print with lower quality leds
apache at120 is $750 and the a51 sgs is $590. both all cree leds.
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Apache does not and never has used cree chips. Nobody other then apache and the chip manufacture know what they are...and probably nasa. But they do outperform cree so that is why they use them and keep them so secretive.
People just think cause they are the best that they are cree.
 
J

jcmjrt

Well-Known Member
starcraftguy1988 said:
Because im pretty sure that everyone would have those lights in their grow journals/rooms if they could afford them. I wont lie tho I'm set on getting 2 of the Lumigrow 650s ES after a few harvests those things look fucking solid! QUOTE]

Well, I for one have the money and no Lumigrow envy at all. They are far too small a footprint for the wattage packed in that fixture...unless you use a light mover...and then OK. I'm not putting them down but I'm not buying either. What LEDs are they using for that fixture?

You can diy your own fairly easily and get top drawer everything for about $3/watt...and that's what I'm doing now...mostly because I end up with top drawer everything..although it's nice to get it at a somewhat reasonable price.

If you do decide to get a Lumigrow 650, I'd love to see a grow comparison between one Lumigrow 650 and two SGS-160s. For less money, less wattage, less heat and less ongoing expense, I'd give odds on the two SGS fixtures growing as well (coverage of your grow area is vital)...but that's just an opinion...but if you do the grow there would be many eyes watching. :)
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hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Tags I swear I thought they used 1 watt crees. I remember reading one of eds articles when he was working with nasa and apache.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
Tags I swear I thought they used 1 watt crees. I remember reading one of eds articles when he was working with nasa and apache.
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Yeah I thought so too, don't remember where I read it either
:eyesmoke:.......But then I talked to the owner (?) And he said no.....that they used an American manufacturer.I tools him that I know of zero leds made here and then the emails stopped.....lol
 
tags420

tags420

Well-Known Member
I have compared At's chip to every chip, including cree, I can get a pic of and I don't know who makes them. EH of a51 just posted this morning saying "I can't tell the brand name, but the do not look cheap". I know hyroot saw that...haha.
This is from their facebook
IMG_2151.jpg

AT doesn't tell me anything about brand when it comes to chips. He knows pretty much anything he tells me will end up on here. My best guess is that somehow their connections with nasa and other high tech companies has lead them to these chip and also why not everyone may have access/know about them. That is just a guess cause you would think someone would know everything about them after all this time if they were just cree's.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
tags420 said:
I have compared At's chip to every chip, including cree, I can get a pic of and I don't know who makes them. EH of a51 just posted this morning saying "I can't tell the brand name, but the do not look cheap". I know hyroot saw that...haha.
This is from their facebook
View attachment 2716291

AT doesn't tell me anything about brand when it comes to chips. He knows pretty much anything he tells me will end up on here. My best guess is that somehow their connections with nasa and other high tech companies has lead them to these chip and also why not everyone may have access/know about them. That is just a guess cause you would think someone would know everything about them after all this time if they were just cree's.
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Since its with nasa... Hmm. They are using alien technology from a galaxy far away .... Lol Im bored obviously. Its too hot out.
 
starcraftguy1988

starcraftguy1988

Well-Known Member
tags420 said:
I have given out freely the code to get apache's for $750(Code:RBK331). And if you are buying 10+ units then you definitely get a break lower than that. I understand that even $750 is more than A51 which is why I said until the new AT's are ready...buy A51. Because they are basically the same lights(output). But when the new apache's are in they will be very different light and easily worth the extra $250.

And when the new units come out that code will continue to work for discounts for every model.
They have new better chips for every model...I should have official output numbers on soon.
And the AT480 is (4)AT120's in one housing and it is going to be like $2000-$2300 I think. It covers a 4x4 fully and intensely everywhere.

My best work with the current At120's is about 8oz per light. And the guy in the quest for the best LED video did 6oz per light. New lights with 2x the output should up that quite a bit though.
Funny how the AT120 has been out for 4 years and just now is everyone trying to get the best copy of them currently out. The price difference I understand, but the A51 isn't some new revolutionary light.
But it is very good and affordable so I support it. Not to mention they are top notch in policy(warranty) and transparency to customers.


Edit:
By the time I finished this 3 people posted
Edit#2:

Apache does not and never has used cree chips. Nobody other then apache and the chip manufacture know what they are...and probably nasa. But they do outperform cree so that is why they use them and keep them so secretive.
People just think cause they are the best that they are cree.
Click to expand...
I hadn't seen the code to get one for 750! although I'd still only have two as compared to the four SGS 160s I purchased. I don't doubt their power and all that is great and next level, but I cant afford it.. Once i get going again, Ill put some money back to make a bulk purchase of the Apaches. As they do look promising and like i said earlier if I'm gonna have one I'll take atleast 4 so, ill probably just wait til their newest tech, and by then Area51 will have probably dropped a new light, which I can upgrade for super cheap!! What kind of yields should i be expecting, doing one plant a light with 4 of the SGS 160s, just fimmed today, first time ever on all plants and they seem to be fine, no dropping or leaning, plants are only about 3 weeks now. gonna have about 3 more weeks to veg and then you know what time it is. Btw how would i post a journal on here,I did once but it was either deleted by an admin/mod or I didn't save maybe?
 
R

realestate

New Member
starcraftguy1988 said:
10 to 12 Apache's will cost you between 8-13 k depending on their bartering policies at apache. And unless I see people getting more than 1g a watt from a unit like that, i wont pay 7$ a watt because its just a bit much for any light, think about it.... Once you include water ,electricity, nutes(if u use them)medium, systems, tents, Etc... for one of those lights to be profitable in a grow scenario, my rule of thumb is that the light must pay for itself atleast on every run. So yeah if you can get 160 -180gs off that Apache tech then I'd say its well worth the 1099 or whatever you work out, that's looking like some money made on the light, but if your closer to the 80 to 120 area, you aren't even breaking even on the light, minus everything else!! The only way id Get those lights is if I had capitol to purchase 10 -12 or more of them, and id only do it if they made me an incredible offer, allowing my minimum harvest to go down significantly.
I guess I didn't take into account those who just grow for themselves, but honestly no one Ever used 12 Apache's to grow their own medical stash, without parting some of that off for reimbursment, or donations, or whatever you want to say. Just saying as most people on here are normal folks IE: poor/middle class without 10s of thousands of dollars to spend on lighting it makes more sense to give them advice on good to ok lights that are More reasonably priced, Like Blackstar, cidly(apollo), eshine(Manufacturer of Advanced LED), California Lightworks=good choice, Area 51=good choice as you said, The HANS panel and many others that are developing as we speak. These are much better choices for people who do not have money for APACHE/LUMIGROW.....Because im pretty sure that everyone would have those lights in their grow journals/rooms if they could afford them. I wont lie tho I'm set on getting 2 of the Lumigrow 650s ES after a few harvests those things look fucking solid! and still at about 3 $ a watt, its more affordable than Apache at 7$ a watt considering That 4 Apaches wouldn't out perform 1 lumigrow 650 es by enough to make the price paid worth it. 4 Apaches = 600 -620 watts at the plug roughly, 1 Lumigrow 650 es=600-650 watts/ 4 Apaches = $4000/ 1Lumigrow 650= $1600, the results here are pretty obvious.....
At the end of the day, its all opinion anyways. If you have the money, then should do whatever you want... Good luck with your lighting quest!!! took me roughlly a month to decide on a company/light but i also researched every day until i just couldnt any more. So yeah Id say if you were still choosing between the area 51 and apache, Area 51 is an easy choice as their warranty is unbeatable, and their product is awesome, at a reasonable price. Once again Good luck and godspeed!
Click to expand...
you think i should get 2 lumigrow 650 or 2 solar storm 800w
 
J

jcmjrt

Well-Known Member
realestate said:
you think i should get 2 lumigrow 650 or 2 solar storm 800w
Click to expand...
I see that you want 30 4 foot plants but you haven't provided any other info that I saw...like what is the size of the grow space? You can grow 30 4 ft plants in 2 gallon containers which is a whole lot less space than someone growing 30 4 ft plants in 5 gallon containers...what is the size of the grow space? LED is not like HID. You don't just hang the biggest wattage fixture you can afford in the center of the room...so more info would help.

These large tightly packed panels are really quite expensive for little results if you don't get some coverage with a light mover. 800 watts of LED should be able to cover 20ft2 (40 watts per ft2 is a LOT of watts with high quality LED)....if you purchase the correct 800 watts...but I'll guarantee that an 800 in the middle of the room won't cover 20ft2 for flower. I'd guess that the ss800 will grow well over about a 3 x 2 space. I know they claim a 4 x 4 but there's no way to get even that spread and grow 4 ft plants without a lot of larf. Same kind of thoughts about the Lumigrow. Think coverage with multiple quality panels if you want to grow rock solid buds with low electrical costs and heat...or light movers...

BTW, what LEDs are lumigrow and california light works using? If they won't tell, the question is why wouldn't they if they are providing a quality LED? I'm always skeptical of smoke and mirrors because people are usually trying to hide something when they do that. If someone is proud of their product, they crow about it and tell you all the wonderful aspects. Area 51 and Hans are pretty transparent and also provide quality products.
 
DemonTrich

DemonTrich

Well-Known Member
having some heat issues in my flower tent. I cant get the temps any lower than 81 w/o a/c. im running a 4x4x7 tent, 600w ac tube with 6" 440 cfm ventech fan 100% power, 8" 420cfm activair intake fan 100%, 8" activeair 420cfm exhaust fan 100%, 4 clip type fans for circulation AND a 18" oscillating fan hung from ceiling and blowing across cool tube to blow heat away. and still running 81* w/o any plants in the tent. im a week over due from flipping and going to run into height restrictions im sure of it.

veg tent is 4x4x7 w/ 600w ac tube with ventech 6" 440 cfm, 8" 315cfm exhaust, 6" 250 cfm intake, and 3 5" clip type fans for circulation. temps are 71* lights out and 79* lights on.


Basement grow. ambient temps are 70* +/-


wondering if switching to LED for flower will help with temps. money, I have 1000.00 to spend, but do NOT want to spend that much. but will have to if only choice. I thought about running AC, but have limited tent space, and no where to vent out the exhaust.
 
O

Okiebingo

New Member
Getting a 2x4x6tall agromax grow tent and wanting to go with an led light. What led light would best for this size tent setup? How many plants? Thanks
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
Two CLW SS200's

one...or two...lol A51 SGS-160 (on sale right now)

one CLW SS400 ( but I really am skeptical about the heat these MIGHT produce..)

two Vipar 2x3's

-------------------------

Im a multiple panel kinda guy, hopefully someone else will back up these generic's- all good options.
 
starcraftguy1988

starcraftguy1988

Well-Known Member
Scotch089 said:
Two CLW SS200's

one...or two...lol A51 SGS-160 (on sale right now)

one CLW SS400 ( but I really am skeptical about the heat these MIGHT produce..)

two Vipar 2x3's

-------------------------

Im a multiple panel kinda guy, hopefully someone else will back up these generic's- all good options.
Click to expand...
Are you asking which panels you should buy? Id say its a pretty easy choice for the 2 area 51s but Im biased as i just ordered 4 instead of 4 CLW 200w. I don't know anything about VIPAR 2x3s they look decent but i couldn't find a good spec sheet on the website, just a crummy one with a lot of BS stats on it with no data/proof to back that up with which is annoying, if your going to pretend to have good results atleast make a fake video claiming your lights put out 10,000 umoles at 3 feet, and show this with a Black plastic spoon with the handle attached to a wire, hooked up to a calculator and call that a par reading lol!!!! Ok i ranted there.... god this is good weed!!! like i was saying, they might be decent but the area51/CLW are proven on these sites and others. Havent seen one grow with vipars/alibaba. ok now Im just trolling..... and skadoosh! Hope you find the right light, also if you live in the UK it might not be such a bad choice if you can find out more about the quality of the lights other than what they say. I went American for this reason, as I live in America and i was just about to buy a ton of Eshine systems/ Cidly (Chinese lights). So once again really do your research and get some good feed back from people who are using these lights on this site, you can find them if you look, and most people are willing to help when it comes to a light preference and what not. Im expecting my lights to arrive on monday-friday and Stoked!
 
O

Orion21

Member
has anyone seen or used rapidled's solderless LEDs for a DIY light? they look fairly fool proof and easy. their Cree leds, the same ones as the hans panel i think.
 
Scotch089

Scotch089

Well-Known Member
starcraftguy1988 said:
Are you asking which panels you should buy? Id say its a pretty easy choice for the 2 area 51s but Im biased as i just ordered 4 instead of 4 CLW 200w. I don't know anything about VIPAR 2x3s they look decent but i couldn't find a good spec sheet on the website, just a crummy one with a lot of BS stats on it with no data/proof to back that up with which is annoying, if your going to pretend to have good results atleast make a fake video claiming your lights put out 10,000 umoles at 3 feet, and show this with a Black plastic spoon with the handle attached to a wire, hooked up to a calculator and call that a par reading lol!!!! Ok i ranted there.... god this is good weed!!! like i was saying, they might be decent but the area51/CLW are proven on these sites and others. Havent seen one grow with vipars/alibaba. ok now Im just trolling..... and skadoosh! Hope you find the right light, also if you live in the UK it might not be such a bad choice if you can find out more about the quality of the lights other than what they say. I went American for this reason, as I live in America and i was just about to buy a ton of Eshine systems/ Cidly (Chinese lights). So once again really do your research and get some good feed back from people who are using these lights on this site, you can find them if you look, and most people are willing to help when it comes to a light preference and what not. Im expecting my lights to arrive on monday-friday and Stoked!
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no I am quite set, thank you. I was answering the poster above

-The 51's are the "latest and greatest" tech, for good reason (Cree XPE/G sets) for a managable buck.

-The Vipars are the 2012 51's- which would mean Helio diodes, right? (Fran, EH, confirm or deny?)

-CLW seems classy, but SME ion their forum kindve pushes you away, panel wise the 400/800's look like the UVB wouldn't be worth the heat, the 100/200's may be a more managable option for us stealth growers. Multiple panels usually runs better anywho..

^^^ I almost purchased a 400 on the GFP deal. I went with 3 2012 51's, 2 with 10:2:3 (WW:NW:630)

Due dilligance in research, friend. Vipar would be a better choice than Cidly, personally.

Good luck with your new lights.
 
starcraftguy1988

starcraftguy1988

Well-Known Member
Thank you very much! Yeah I'm excited about these Cree LEDs, as they have been quite hyped up. As far as cidly goes, ive actually heard pretty good things about them, someone was even telling me of a successful all white led grow.. I was curious how they got them to upgrade the drivers and whatnot to run all higher power leds. IE: white and blues, the stock apollo stuff can only handle 5 i was told. If i had looked at your post count i could of deduced that you weren't asking which lights were better, but that's where my buds come in... epic failboat. thanks again Scotch!
 
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