I'll try to help you noobs out once again-the plant needs plenty of N until harvest.

jesus of Cannabis said:
sarcasm?..i am hoping
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"I'm one if those lazy ass newbs that go with the flow and have but not a clue about botany."

No, a perfect example of the misguided brainwashing noobs get trapped into in the cannabis world and the primary reason they fail. No offense waterdawg but considering you put forum paradigms and myths before learning what makes a plant tick speaks volumes. Not singling you out, just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Good luck
 
spek9 said:
I answered a question about the grams-per-watt calculation the other day, and am formulating up a nice post about how to do so for the newb section. I might become part of the club :D

-spek
Click to expand...

There's another myth and fallacy.
 
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Uncle Ben said:
My friend, I gave you a link which addressed my experience with high N foods, READ.
Click to expand...

UB, I've been following your posts since I ran across one of your discussions on Jack's Classic and have learned a lot of valuable information from you and thanks to that information, I just had one of the most successful grows I've ever had and the next will be even better.

I have eliminated so much crap that use to occupy my nutrient shelf and am down to the GH 3 part flora series because it's cheap and effective. I've also been reading much on micro biology and the role micro organisms and mycohorrizae play in nutrient uptake and overall plant health and it's very exciting to see just how complex and amazing the cannabis plant is and it's relationship with the environment it lives in truly is.

Thanks for your contributions (that often go ignored unfortunately) to the RIU community and I'll keep following your posts in the future. At some point, I'll have some questions for you directly about micro biology. I've got some more reading to do first though :)

Oh, and my leaves stayed beautiful and green all the way up to harvest and of course, I never flush. "Flushing is for toilets", if I remember right!

I found that by cutting the recommended feeding on the nutrient bottle by 25%, the plants never experience any burn and I don't use any more mystery products. If I don't understand how it works or the manufacturer won't tell me what's in it, it's not going in my grow. Plants are amazing and complex, but the elements they need are not.
 
You are definately on the right track, and thanks for the thanks. Unlearning what you "learned" in cannabis forums is your first step to Uncle Ben's 12 Step Plant Recovery. :) If you kept them green and healthy until harvest then you did the best that you could. Not everyone can do that even it they want to. For some strange reason I've personally struggled with keeping some plants green come the flowering response. Most times it's because I played games with bloom foods which always got me into trouble.

Subscribing to this and that is relative. For example, a myco drench might be effective outdoors but according to a friend who gardens commercially is ineffective with container gardening. He cited a research study that reflected that fact. Also, we as a consumers have no clue whether there is even a healthy ecto/endo myco population in the products we buy. My electron microscope just broke down so I can't verify. :)
 
waterdawg said:
So is the flowering half of most nute regimes just all a hoax? If it doesn't do anything beneficial why bother? I'm one if those lazy ass newbs that go with the flow and have but not a clue about botany. Its really hard to not switch to the flower nutes as thats the thing your "supposed to do".:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Unlearn everything you thought was true.
 
Uncle Ben said:
"I'm one if those lazy ass newbs that go with the flow and have but not a clue about botany."

No, a perfect example of the misguided brainwashing noobs get trapped into in the cannabis world and the primary reason they fail. No offense waterdawg but considering you put forum paradigms and myths before learning what makes a plant tick speaks volumes. Not singling you out, just pointing out the reality of the situation.

Good luck
Click to expand...
No offence taken! And no sarcasm intended, more of a discussion point. Just being honest about my knowledge base. I have been growing for many years and following forums for a relatively short period. The practice of using high N for growth and high P for flower is not new. Basically what I was trying to ask is if the flower nutes are useless why are they out there? Is it just a marketing thing. My using both products has quite possibly hindered growth but I have never failed to bring in a harvest, just wonder why they are even out there is all. Its not like the bloom part of the mix sells for more. Is there no benefit at all to switching? Oh and I'm probably echoing a majority of personal growers that dont read volumes of botany books, i may be wrong! Fyi I have been adding a bit of nitrogen based nutes throughout since reading a few if yours and others threads.
 
waterdawg said:
I am skepticle of all things I read on forums lol. But I also take it all in and sort through it. I have learned many things from UB's threads as well as others.
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I will give an example, My hydro A+B Grow ratio was almost the exact same as the Bloom, 6-0-6 Grow and bloom NPK is 6-2-8, so as you can see, this is nothing that even a weak P-K boost will sort, not that it needs it.
 
jack's citrus feed, UB recommended, No ph pen's, No ppm pen, i don't test ANYTHING. I use the same barrel of water to mix nutes for veg and flower, they are the same. I use a couple scoops every time I water. Buds that are so heavy i often find a branch half broke from the weight that I have to tie up. Buds so sticky, you brush your arm up against it and your arm is now sticky. taste,smell,potency. all top shelf. Just got more bud off my plants than ever before.(new Gavita Light did that)

Keep it simple stoner. Spend money on better lights and environment, forget about magical sauces that cost a fortune.
Learned all this from My man UB.
 
Uncle Ben has given me solid advice these past two years. I can't say that I followed all of it and every time I stray away from his words of wisdom I find out the hard way that once again he was right.

Dammit.

We've done a good job of mystifying growing pot......but when it's all said and done....it's just a plant. I do not use any pot-specific nutrients because of this. I run one nutrient (Jacks Classic) from beginning to end and have no deficiencies, my plants are healthy and green right up to harvest day, and my yields are always satisfying. It doesn't hurt that my nutrient cost for 80+ plants runs about $10 every 2-3 months.
 
waterdawg said:
No offence taken! And no sarcasm intended, more of a discussion point. Just being honest about my knowledge base. I have been growing for many years and following forums for a relatively short period. The practice of using high N for growth and high P for flower is not new. Basically what I was trying to ask is if the flower nutes are useless why are they out there?
Click to expand...

Money.

Yes, those foods are primarily out there for marketing. The first thing a vendor is going to find out is the mindset, the belief system of the group he is targeting, then he'll set up his entire product line to play into that market, right or wrong, doesn't matter. They know their market, the entire cannabis biz is about marketing, understanding the psychology, mindset, and politics of their target group.

When you pick up a box of Bloom food off the shelf at Walmart, what is the first crapola you read? "Increases blooms, color...." NPK? Most likely a 15-30-15 or such because all the nutrient basics, college level or not, state that P is good for blooms and roots. Never says the plant may only require a little. Typical grower is given the knowledge but that's a far as it goes.... doesn't mean he's prompted to "think". Like I described in my Abuse of Phosphorous thread what guys like you may not consider is that a 18-4-9 during flower may just be enough P to support good flowering, and that's all you're after. Sure know it's gonna support leaves, and that's the bottom line....not some stupid ass bloom food that you've been programmed to buy "cause that's what everyone does" kinda thing.

More is not necessarily better. Less is more many times. Only one way to find out is to do a leaf petiole analysis. We had this discussion at the Riddle site and it was shown via cannabis tissue analysis, the plant's tissue mineral analysis reflects something like a 5-2-3. Homebrewer can fill you in if he's lurking. I think he was the one that presented the graphical analysis including all minerals.

Good luck,
Uncle Ben
 
Roach, thanks. I'll say it again - I try to pigeon hole plant material regarding type and cultural needs. I consider cannabis just another foliage plant and like a philodendron, it flowers to carry on the species.
 
Uncle Ben said:
Roach, thanks. I'll say it again - I try to pigeon hole plant material regarding type and cultural needs. I consider cannabis just another foliage plant and like a philodendron, it flowers to carry on the species.
Click to expand...

What nonsense. Cannabis is magical and unique and it's nothing like growing say, a plant. It has to be. How else would i justify getting ripped off for bloom boosters and such? And i'm a pot grower, not a gardener, stop pissing on my street cred!
 
Just to clarify not disagreeing at all with what is being said. As for keeping it simple, well thats me lol. No boosters, no 15 bottles of nutes (well not now), and no special nutes with pretty pictures of girls covered in plants. Just a two part grow and yup a bloom. I buy my nutes from the nute factory in town that bottles for many distributors so its cheap! I run a very low concentration of nutes in my res. . Yes the girls do way better when not force fed. I did get dragged into the magical unicorn shit at first. And yes I guess I'm just confused that they would bottle two different products (same price!) if only one was needed. Not sure if I can get or even use jacks classic here and is it suitable for hydro? I threw away the soil three years ago and only grow in soil in the summer, cow shit and cormorant poop being the choice there, its free! I do know that as a newb, when things go bad, nutes are the culprit and off we go to get the most expensive product, it must be the best right! Yes UB your right, alot of this crap is for profit. Seeing a newb coming into the hydro store in my town is like watching a wolf pack (owner) get ready for the kill (i was the newb three years ago). Lol
 
tip top toker said:
What nonsense. Cannabis is magical and unique and it's nothing like growing say, a plant.
Click to expand...

Hate to clue you in but cannabis is a plant. Might wanna consider it as such one of these days.

Cannabis is not unique nor is it magical. It is considered a weed by many. If you can't grow pot, you're in bad shape.
 
Uncle Ben said:
Hate to clue you in but cannabis is a plant. Might wanna consider it as such one of these days.

Cannabis is not unique nor is it magical. It is considered a weed by many. If you can't grow pot, you're in bad shape.
Click to expand...

I had rather hoped that the absurd reasoning given in the section you didn't quote would begin to indicate that I'm in agreement with you and just having a little laugh at the people getting ripped off buying silly cannabis specific products.
 
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