Indoor Blackdog LED grow

Hello friends,

I have begun a new adventure. My first adventure with this sort of act is detailed below. This is the first time I've grown physically, but I've been researching this process for 5 years now.

I am growing 11 plants. I have a 5x9 Gorilla Grow tent and 3x BlackDog LED 400 watts for a total power output of 1,240. Each light actually runs at 420 watts. My electricity cost for the lights is $74 per month in flower and I do not have any cooling costs apart from a few low power house fans.

I am using co2 supplementation (1,500ppm) and techniques such as defoliation, fimming, bud backbuilding/swelling, super cropping, and a few other fun ideas. I flipped to flower on 4/12/17 and I'm using the entire advanced nutrients line. Every flipping bottle actually (All microbes, Bud factor X, Rhino Skin, b-52, big bud, overdrive, bud ignitor, the list goes on and on.)

I'm growing in 10 gallon smart pots (a few are in 5 gallons) and we're on day 23 now since it's 5/5. They're in a mix of perlite and Coco coir. I have to fix the spacing and get rid of that scrog net because it was an optimistic but ineficient way of doing things this run and so late into flower. I had to flower a month ahead of schedule because my lease was ending sooner than I'd realized.

My strains are Atomic Northern lights, Orange Fruity Pebbles, Royal Orange, #10, Midnight Fire, Suzy Q (cbd), Key lime Pie, Mendo, Inner Chi, AOC (need to ask the breeder what this acronym stands for), and blue Skittles.

Stay tuned for what is my first grow, a fun investment, and a learning experience for all. I began with the goal of "I'm going to grow the best weed in the world" and every time that tent opens I get so happy. I'm having so much fun doing this and I think I'm going to get my wish.

The photos below are of my Atomic Northern Lights. She's 22 days into flower along with her other sisters and I think she's doing just dapper. I am really liking all the ideas advanced nutrients offers. I've spent 100+ hours speaking to the blackdog led engineers and staff about their ideas and data. And I've spent about 70 hours with advanced.

New ideas, especially from people without "experience" often get a lot of flak. I'm here to share, learn, and grow. Any negativity will be promptly ignored, it isn't productive. "Advanced sucks. Hps is better, fimming and defoliation are stupid, plastic over smart pots". No, just no. We won't be doing any of that. Questions are welcome and encouraged. But, just don't waste your breath by saying anything that the intelligent people will ignore.

I'm sure there's things that could be improved, but I don't do pissing contests. I don't believe "experience" can be used as the all powerful "I'm right and experienced and thus you are wrong" hammer. Let's all be civil, and share in our ideas. With that disclaimer (I almost left it out, but whatever), let's grow the best weed on Earth.

Today I did some trimming/defoliating on the Atomic Northern Lights and Key lime. Even my fan leaves are coated in trichomes and after vaping some in my herbalizer I am definitely doing something right.

The purpose of this was to yet again open up the canopy and to cut down on future trimming.

I felt like an artist doing that. Key lime took 2 hours because I didn't want to accidentally snip any buds and the nodes are stacked very close together.

do you have any plans to use DWC? the AN nutes make DWC super easy, I don't even clean the res between changes lol, no temp monitoring either. Look into specifics on using coco, I believe they make coco specific nutes. I've never used coco but I've read its a bit different from most other mediums

edit: Just saw your other thread you got their coco specific lol

I would have preferred to do hydroponics with an ultrasonic fogger setup. I have a 6 head fogger that I had already to use.

When I received the girls as clones they were already quite large and were planted in Coco. So rather than reverse the whole thing (due to condo time restraints) I just kept them as they were and proceeded. I do have the Coco specific nutes yes.

I spent a good 8 hours defoliating three of them today. I felt like an artist and it was fun. I snipped off some of the fan leaves of midnight fire and threw them directly into my herbalizer. It's now been 4 hours and I have devoured every candy bar in reach. Which is 4.

I have a few more hours of defoliation to go. I keep thinking about the way they plant physically functions. No wonder trimming is such a time consuming process to get perfected. The plant holds onto almost all of the small leaves and they just get buried into the plant as it buds out. Which you then somehow have to try and snip off without jacking up the bud structure. Or you could use a tumbler, and break off nearly all trichome heads. Which personally leaves me with a very empty and spacey high. The cbn content is likely a culprit for that as well, but I've inspected with a loupe many strains and the ones with full trichome structures that were clearly hand trimmed properly, always win over the ones that were badly trimmed or tumbled over sharp metal blades slicing off the trichomes. For my top nugs I'm going for just buds with hardly any other plant matter.

I started the bud swelling (it's called a few things. Swelling, backbuilding, I don't know originally.) I began on the midnight fire who is just beginning to get distinct bud growth on day 24 of flower. So if those respond well to the technique, I'll likely do it everywhere. Or I could do a side by side. I'm curious myself if this technique works. So if half the plant is enormous, and the other half is normal, we'll know if it worked.

I'm having a lot of fun speculating on my final yield. Knowing that im running 1,260 watts and that with my training on them, lighting, and kick ass nutrient line, I'm confident in the 1g/watt idea. However, these lights have been known to produce more. So a yield of anywhere from 1,008 grams at 0.8g/watt, to 1,890 grams at 1.5g/watt. So anywhere from 2.2-4.2 pounds.

I began with the mission of "I'm going to grow the best weed in the world." I found my equipment, I analyzed how I should go about it technique wise, and I willed it to be.

The colas are slim, but rock solid and strong. The ridiculosly expensive nutrients (bud factor x, rhino skin, microbes) are really starting to show through. I've read hundreds of grow logs and seen 4 commercial growing operations. I've read The cannabis grow bible, books by by Ed Rosenthal, and every other piece of literature on cannabis I've been able to access over the years. I'm still feeling like I'm missing a few techniques that have been forgotten or are controversial.

The main ones would be:
Low stress training
High stress training
-super cropping
-fimming
-topping
-bud backbuilding
-staking (stabbing the center stem and inhibiting water uptake during flush so the plant supposedly secretes more resin.)
-Defoliation

As far as plant manipulation goes, does anybody have any other ones they're aware of?

Tonight they get fed and mixing their nutrients is always fun in a big tub with a water pump far too powerful. I got this thing on eBay for $22 and I had no idea it was this strong.

I currently have all of the leaves drying in a dehumidifier on low heat. The ones that have been dried are being decarbed in my Nova Decarbs. And after that they're going into my magic butter with 95% ethanol (190 proof.) To make a tincture.

I'm having lots of fun future ideas. Full cannabinoids, pesticide, microbiological, and residual solvent testing for all raw bud and all infusions that will be made by others. Live resin, butane honey oil, co2 hash, etc. Lots of people are excited to get to work with the final results.

damn ive never seen ethanol packaged like that! I just grab a bottle of Everclear, I know Everclear isn't available everywhere though lol. I'm looking forward to seeing your results, do you plan on doing side by sides with clones in the future?

Just my two cents on defoliation. I've been a believer in defoliating sometimes to help light break through the canopy, but I've learned that if you start too early, you can really hurt your end yield shocking the plant multiple times through the flowering period. Be very selective, and only do a few nodes of fan leaves at a time. I know that in flower we want to see all bud and no foliage, but you need some of the big fan leaves to keep photosynthesis cranking the way it needs to.
Defoliation has its benefits of when done propeely, but it needs spacing of about 10 days each time, and don't take more than 10% of your total foliage in one run. Leads to days of stagnant shock.

dirtWeevil said:

damn ive never seen ethanol packaged like that! I just grab a bottle of Everclear, I know Everclear isn't available everywhere though lol. I'm looking forward to seeing your results, do you plan on doing side by sides with clones in the future?

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Yes

ColoradoCheshire said:

Just my two cents on defoliation. I've been a believer in defoliating sometimes to help light break through the canopy, but I've learned that if you start too early, you can really hurt your end yield shocking the plant multiple times through the flowering period. Be very selective, and only do a few nodes of fan leaves at a time. I know that in flower we want to see all bud and no foliage, but you need some of the big fan leaves to keep photosynthesis cranking the way it needs to.
Defoliation has its benefits of when done propeely, but it needs spacing of about 10 days each time, and don't take more than 10% of your total foliage in one run. Leads to days of stagnant shock.

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I thought this as well I figured snipping small bits would help the plant transition and lessen shock.

Kevin over at blackdog led has been an incredible resource for me in all things cannabis growing. He is the one who actually designed and built my light.

He has scoured the earth in an attempt to not only create the best indoor light spectrum, but also to enhance his own growing techniques. From his experiences he has found that a full and complete defoliation on day 1, and again on day 21 are ideal.

"Hello Jacob,

Other than possibly removing emerging fan leaves (depending on the size you took them at) I don't think you over-defoliated. My general rule of thumb was that if I could cut it off without risking damage to the emerging buds and it was at least half-mature, I would.

The first 3 attached are some pictures of the devastation last time I did it day 1 of flower; the last 3 are just before defoliation on day 20, and just after.

Despite the loss of leaves, these yielded 2.3 pounds...

Since you're running CO2, 89 degrees is fine and actually ideal- I would not try to bring it down more if I were you. If you can keep it under 91 degrees you should be golden."

My idea is similar. The plant is a living creature. It's in flower because of a hormone response. The plant takes as long to flower as it does because those hormones keep building. In an ideal world we would keep our plants from all stress. As we've learned, certain forms of stress can actually benefit the plants and make them yield better.

Every time you snip off a leaf the plant received signals in it's plant brain and says "we're under attack! Defend and fight!"

Kevin's comparison to me was this. If we know the plant gets stressed when we remove the leaves, then it doesn't seem logical to continually stress it out. One big swoop of stress will shake them up, yes. But when you go to the dentist, and you have 5 cavities to fill, wouldn't you rather get it all done at the same time, rather than space out the pain over the course of a month?

I know that may not be the best comparison, but it sounded logical to me. So I have done a complete defoliation on most of my plants. And I also have before and after pictures showing what they've done. I just did a full defoliation on most of them (it takes for-fucking-ever) and I'll upload before and after when they recover.

I'd personally rather have a few days of stagnant shock, than to continually cause the plants to secrete stress hormones. I keep seeing that idea around, that you shouldn't take some percentage off, but nobody has any references for it or data as to exactly why. Presumably you don't want to stress the plant, which could cause hermaphrodites, or hurt your final yield. Kevin has never had a hermaphrodite by doing these techniques and so far mine haven't either. As per the final yield, I cannot attest to that just quite yet. Kevin appears to have not had his final yield harmed whatsoever. He's growing in a small closet with his phytimax 800 that outputs 800 watts. He got 2.3 pounds or 1,164 grams. Which then equates to 1.456g/watt.

Here's the defoliation of the Royal Orange. The first photo is from 4/23 and the second photo is from 4/29. They recover rather quickly.

Today is day 31 of flower and I'm getting some really nice bud formation.

I've also brought my outdoor plants down from the roof and they're getting placed in the grow room today. The purple Cuvee (or Cuvee purple I'm not sure which" is really taking off and showing colors for how young she is. These got pretty limited light up under the rafters so they stalled a bit. Today is a full plant day and lots of work needs to be done.

I keep wanting to add the extension to the tent so I have more height light spacing but doing so without disassembling a fuck load of it seems to be difficult. So that has to get thought out.

I snipped off a piece of Suzy Q to try the CBD due to light lower back discomfort. Very little psychoactive effects but I realized my mental thoughts were calmer but not foggier. At some points I felt vaguely like I was melting but that didn't last for very long. Cbd looks to be much better in an extracted form rather than vaped.

I also snipped off some midnight fire leaves because I like the effects these give and they're insane. Looking at the trichomes magnified on these show layers of mature trichomes with the full spectrum. There's Clear, Cloudy, Amber, long spiny trichomes, short fat mushrooms, long tall crowded together trichs all over.

I am really liking the full advanced line. It was really expensive, but usually great things are. I was skeptical about the bud factor X, but not anymore. The blackdog LEDs are really giving their value and I think I'll be able to get all of my start-up costs paid for even in this first run.

I didn't realize the plants looked the way they did without the led discoloring them. Even to the naked eye with the lights on they look way different than they do with a camera flash. I am so excited for harvest.

Due to Atomic Northern lights being a faster flowering strain I will begin using overdrive tomorrow on her. With the amount of bud sites that I have, I think I'll get a pretty great end yield. My beginning goal was "I'm going to grow the best weed in the world." Quantity wasn't a concern. Now that I've felt what these plants can produce (even just with their sugar leaves) I already know the end result will melt my brain. So now it's time to make sure that the quantity is in line with the quality. I can't wait for a few weeks from now and watching them develop by the day is incredible.

Today I removed the scrog net and did some back building on the Atomic Northern lights, Blue Skittles, Key lime pie, #10, and midnight fire.

The judge is out ,on defoliating, i just wonder if the royal orange , would have spent its energy elsewhere , rather than growing back new leaves
IMO Colorado is on the money..............but each to there own.........a side by side would have been interesting

Poontanger said:

The judge is out ,on defoliating, i just wonder if the royal orange , would have spent its energy elsewhere , rather than growing back new leaves
IMO Colorado is on the money..............but each to there own.........a side by side would have been interesting

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I plan on moving to Colorado and working for Evo Labs. Their production and extraction is unmatched

*Edit*
You meant user Colorado. Ah. I do see where he gets those ideas from. But after speaking to growers who have been experimenting with these techniques for decades, I think following their advice has led me in the right direction. I see the logic behind not wanting to stress the plant out, or they need the leaves for photosynthesis.

I am content with how this will yield. I could harvest right this second and have everything I could need for months. The sugar leaf on every plant alone is enough for me to make gallons of tincture. I'm doing this primarily for my dog dash. He has intervertebral disk disease in his back and I created the tincture for him. One single drop is all he needs for hours and hours of pain relief. When you see your baby go from a limping frowning mess, to a happy wiggly puppy (he's 8 years old) again your world lights up. This is enough material to give dash pain relief for years. So I've fortunately already reached my first goal which was to help my goose (I call him Mr. Goose, because he's my silly goose.)

I'm definitely an experimenter by design. I like to pick things apart and reassemble them in a different shape to see what else I can create with the tools and information I'm given. It's really fun to play around with ideas that people think are ridiculous or impossible. I've gotten plants to flower whilst still in veg, I've brought plants back from the dead, and I'm using technologies that others will scoff at and will tell you they're a waste of money.

I'm excited for my final yield, but the I most important part is that I'm enjoying every step of the process. Many people focus too much on end results rather than enjoying the moments. I've spent hundreds of hours on this idea, and will spend hundreds more before the next cycle. I'm attempting to physically and emotionally imbue the plants with energy (both from myself, and from music.) I firmly believe that as a fellow living creature the plant is somewhat conscious and is aware of what's happening to it. I talk to my plants, sing to them, tell them I love them, and they're never left alone. Whether they have music, motivational talks from YouTube, or me, the darlings never have a moment of seclusion. I think that as a living creature, if I show it the love and respect they deserve, they will reward me for my efforts. I think that by doing that, I could fuck up in every conceivable way. I could strip them bare, and bring them back with enough positivity. I believe that I can shape reality with sheer force of will. What some say is impossible, I deconstruct and make it work.

I have lots of new ideas and processes on how to achieve them. I am growing with LED lights (which are the single most expensive models possible. There's 1,000 of reasons I chose black dog and I don't think it's arrogant to say that at this point in time they're the best led plant light.) I'm using nutrients designed by rocket scientist and engineers. And I'm using training techniques that growers who never thought to experiment have called me idiotic for doing. Not one single aspect of this project is "normal" and in loving every minute of it.

My goal is to grow the best weed in the world. I am going to win a cannabis cup, and I will get a doctorate in molecular biology. I will accomplish these goals within a 5 year time period and I am motivated enough to make all of that happen. I will create my own strains, and eventually help fix the world with enough positive thoughts and will power. Stick around, let's see if we can change how things are done.

Im happy for dash

This plant smells so insanely good.

Poontanger said:

The judge is out ,on defoliating, i just wonder if the royal orange , would have spent its energy elsewhere , rather than growing back new leaves
IMO Colorado is on the money..............but each to there own.........a side by side would have been interesting

Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words. I take what all growers say that I've talked with and research articles to figure out what works for me. I'm not paying down gold standards for ideas on how to grow and manipulate cannabis to alter your final yield in a positive manner.
I've got at least 12-15 grow cycles under my belt now. Not professional by any means, a lot of ghetto bangers trying this, that, and who knows where some ideas came from. I've tried methods from published cannabis books with horrible results, wondering why someone would take time to publish shitty methods for CO2 uptake and all these borderline magical ideas that hold no merit when put into practice.
One thing I've always experimented with is defoliation in different degrees. I lost a whole crop of huge NL girls from trimming every main fan leaf upon flowering. They wicked up over night and died from shock.
I've also tried top to bottom orientation for selective trimming, as well as bottom to top. I've found bottom to top defoliation works best. You may think you want to open the canopy first, but it's the leaves getting covered below that need to go. In nature bushes do this on their own over time, but we all know our cannabis bushes don't reveg. and prune themselves year after year, which is where trimming comes in.
One question I have been left with after all the growing and learning I've done is why my cannabis plants don't stink like they should.....I grow as organic as possible and while growing they have a very green and planty smell, and I can only start smelling the nose of the buds when I rub them directly. And the dry product is never skunky. It's a lot of black jelly beans, some pepper, and a sweet nougat type thickness to the smell.

Plant update on day 42:

I have discovered that the plants do in fact need some of their fan leaves to help with the bud formation/thickening. The AOC which didn't receive a second defoliation is thickening up much more rapidly than the ANL which had all of her fan leaves stripped and it's receiving much less light since it's in a corner. Oh well, lessons learned. The Atomic Northern lights isn't developing as rapidly as it once was. I have also noticed some more two spotted spider mites so I've ordered another 2,000 predatory mites and deployed the sticky traps I purchased last month. I snipped off a few side bottom branches of the Orange fruity pebbles because they were in the way and oh my Lord they are so strong (effect wise) and sweet (flavor wise).

All in all I'm content with how this is going. We're still in the process and I already have more than I could really ever use so I view it as a success. I'm definitely going to be revegging the plants after harvest. I'm going to do the next run in my fogponic setup so we'll see how that goes in the near future.

For this grow, I already view it as a success. Yes I definitely fucked up a number of times, but that's what experimentation is for. Even with all the information I know about the plants I still found myself fumbling around when it came time to work which isn't that common for me to doubt what I know. I think the spider mites messed with my psyche when they jacked up my inner chi plant. Oh well, lessons learned. But even if I harvested now, right this moment, I have soooooo much raw material for tinctures, and edibles. I don't like smoking and vaping is too time consuming and inconsistent with dosing.

I have learned that high CBD combined with moderate thc is like brain crack. It feels like it literally resets my brain and I feel so much clearer, happier, and intelligent. I'm stoked that this is working out as well as it is, and I have all my notes and data logs showing when I did what. So the next one will be even better. I've learned a lot in this process and every plant is completely covered in trichomes from top to bottom. I attribute that to the bud factor x, and spectrum of led lighting. I'm surprised they're turning out as well as they are even with my little mishaps along the way. I'm way too excited for harvest.