Iran Update...

The world isn't any safer in general, that's true. But alas, Obama was the cure. One year later, groveling and appeasement passed out ALL around (quite embarrassing in general), and lo and behold, NOTHING has changed.

So, it wasn't Bush..... because it isn't Obama.

See how that works?

CrackerJax said:

The world isn't any safer in general, that's true. But alas, Obama was the cure. One year later, groveling and appeasement passed out ALL around (quite embarrassing in general), and lo and behold, NOTHING has changed.

So, it wasn't Bush..... because it isn't Obama.

See how that works?

Click to expand...

Well, maybe that's the problem, you expect the world to change over night. One year is not enough time for anything substantial to change. Two years isn't enough time. It might take his entire term before we see any significant, positive changes.

You go ahead and feel embarrassed for Obama's actions. To tell you the truth, I feel like I can hold my head a click higher now that Bush isn't the president. Doesn't really matter who is, but with that numb nuts in charge I felt like I should be the one apologising to the rest of the world on behalf of the presidents actions. Talk about an embarrassing administration...

It was foreign policy (put in place before Bush became president) continued by his administration, ego, and money that got us here. I've never put the entire blame on George Bush, it was his fault, his administrations fault, and the administrations before his faults.

Obama is keeping the strategy going, so it will soon become his fault too, and his administrations.

I can read the papers. i know what the Obama effect has been ... strictly negative.

He's a dictators dream President.

CrackerJax said:

I can read the papers. i know what the Obama effect has been ... strictly negative.

He's a dictators dream President.

Click to expand...

Same agenda as Bush . . . .

Bush succeeded however. Big difference. Obama is moving in only one direction. Backwards, but it's nice that he bows along the path of retreat.

History tells the tale of the efficacy of appeasement and accommodation.
It is a sad tale of woe.

We ignore history at our collective peril.

I guess I'm the only one who sees the positive shift in an attitude less like "I'm an American" and more like "I'm a human".

Equality guys, even the people who don't subscribe to capitalism or democracy deserve it.

No, others think the same way. But take a look around, the world doesn't operate along those parameters. It TALKS along those P's, but don't be taken in.

Ambition is along with greed, everywhere. We have what they want. Every country follows it's own path, but most of the big boy nations are in to win. Some juniors as well, (like Iran & North Korea). I call them the wild cards. No hope of global success, they drive on none the less, showing just how dangerous they are.

CrackerJax said:

No, others think the same way. But take a look around, the world doesn't operate along those parameters. It TALKS along those P's, but don't be taken in.

Ambition is along with greed, everywhere. We have what they want. Every country follows it's own path, but most of the big boy nations are in to win. Some juniors as well, (like Iran & North Korea). I call them the wild cards. No hope of global success, they drive on none the less, showing just how dangerous they are.

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Yet you still, 143 pages later, cannot answer what any of these nations would stand to gain from "showing just how dangerous they are"...

I can answer that, but think about it. Who cares? Whether you are able to rationalize it or not is basically unimportant. Even if Obama doesn't get it ... that's no concern to nations such as North Korea or Iran.

They believe it and that's enough. This isn't a mental exercise.

CrackerJax said:

I can answer that, but think about it. Who cares? Whether you are able to rationalize it or not is basically unimportant. Even if Obama doesn't get it ... that's no concern to nations such as North Korea or Iran.

They believe it and that's enough. This isn't a mental exercise.

Click to expand...

No you can't. If you could, you would.

You can't even rationalize your own theory well enough to communicate it to me.

What does Iran or North Korea stand to gain from flexing? ...seems like a pretty simple and direct question to me..

It's very important.

Well, let's see. First off I have been categorically correct on Iran and only now are the major public entities agreeing with the rest of the "common sense" crowd with IQ's over the norm, who have been right all along ... in spades.

Second, the answer is very simple if one keeps up on international regional news as opposed to American news outlets.

So Iran's intentions are a mystery to you. Hmmm ... I'm a bit surprised at ur lack of base knowledge about a subject you post quite a bit about...

Okay, here's a very BASIC refresher course on what Iran is all about.

Iran wants nuclear power. Iran however does not need nuclear power. Iran has the second largest natural gas fields in the world, and stands at 950 Trillion feet, enough for all of their energy needs for 230 years. Besides that they sell 4 million barrels of oil per day for extra revenue. They are the world's 4th largest producer of oil. So nuclear energy is absurd. It's incredibly expensive to build and maintain, and Iran has already signed a treaty to NOT build nuclear reactors (a treaty they are already in clear violation of).

Iran can realize all sorts of geopolitical advantages to having the bomb.

Iran's nuclear missiles would be a permanent weight placed against Israel and that is the optimist side of it.
Iran could go down a darker road and claim for Persian Shiites the crown of radical Islam by destroying Israel once and for all.
One must think regionally at times, for they most certainly do. Iran has all sorts of disputes with the SUNNI Arab world over oil production and pricing, disputed territory, and Islamic doctrine (not the least conflict, by their standards).
AA nuclear armed Iran would terrify most of the Arab Middle east, and couold possibly start a nuclear arms race in that region. Wouldn't that be just ducky?!
Iran also gives billions to Hamas and Hezzy. This would give them far greater power over the west than previously held. How long do you think it would be after Iran gets their many many bombs in order before one is given to Hamas? Trust them to be responsible with a nuke?

There, we're up to speed on the BASICS. Keep notes if you need to.

First off, I know we're all arrogant motherfuckers who post on the political and religious threads, but man, you take it to a whole new level sometimes. Is that necessary? How old are you? Don't you know by now bringing that stuff with you puts the other person in the defensive position automatically, before you even get to what you're saying the other guy already feels like it's an attack and he must defend against whatever it is you bring, even if he agrees with it. It makes it a lot harder to agree with you. It's condescending. I know you're above that, maybe you just forget it or don't see when you do it, but try to pay a little more attention to it and people will respond to your posts with much more respect.

Well, let's see. First off I have been categorically correct on Iran and only now are the major public entities agreeing with the rest of the "common sense" crowd with IQ's over the norm, who have been right all along ... in spades.

See, that's pompous. What are you saying you've been correct all along about, specifically, details?

Second, the answer is very simple if one keeps up on international regional news as opposed to American news outlets.

So Iran's intentions are a mystery to you. Hmmm ... I'm a bit surprised at ur lack of base knowledge about a subject you post quite a bit about...


pompous/arrogant

Okay, here's a very BASIC refresher course on what Iran is all about.

pompous/arrogant

Iran wants nuclear power. Iran however does not need nuclear power. Iran has the second largest natural gas fields in the world, and stands at 950 Trillion feet, enough for all of their energy needs for 230 years. Besides that they sell 4 million barrels of oil per day for extra revenue. They are the world's 4th largest producer of oil. So nuclear energy is absurd. It's incredibly expensive to build and maintain, and Iran has already signed a treaty to NOT build nuclear reactors (a treaty they are already in clear violation of).

Iran seems to think Iran needs nuclear power, so why does it work like this? America decides for herself, why should Iran be any different? We decide all our policies, some of which the states in the middle east feel very threatened by, arguably (to you) for good reason, yet we still have the power to decide for ourselves what is best for ourselves. (be clear, when I say "ourselves" I'm referring to the prick thief politicians in D.C. who decide all the domestic injustices we face on a daily basis) We're the only country in history to ever use a nuclear warhead in a time of war, so other nations can look back through history and justifiably say they genuinely feel threatened having America nuclear, yet we still have them. Again, be clear, I'm not and never have supported we just let Iran develope a nuclear weapon, I am against that.

Again, their reasons for wanting nuclear energy is irrelevant, and your opinion doesn't matter. My opinion doesn't matter. We're not Iranian, only the Iranian populations opinion matters.

They think the sanctions are illegal... So of course they're going to oppose them. I would too. You would too. They say they're creating nuclear energy, and we've been down this road before and we know exactly where it leads. Show me the evidence, where is it? Where is the evidence they're creating a bomb? Where is the evidence they're going to use the bomb if they create it? That's the stuff you need to be showing me. Not saying "it's there, just go look.." because where I've been looking, the information I've been seeing is saying the opposite, and that it's again just heavy political talk with no evidence to support it, just like it was with Iraq. They're trying to coax you guys into invasion mode again, and you're falling for it without even realizing it.

Iran can realize all sorts of geopolitical advantages to having the bomb.

K, what are they?

Iran's nuclear missiles would be a permanent weight placed against Israel and that is the optimist side of it.
Iran could go down a darker road and claim for Persian Shiites the crown of radical Islam by destroying Israel once and for all.
One must think regionally at times, for they most certainly do. Iran has all sorts of disputes with the SUNNI Arab world over oil production and pricing, disputed territory, and Islamic doctrine (not the least conflict, by their standards).
AA nuclear armed Iran would terrify most of the Arab Middle east, and couold possibly start a nuclear arms race in that region. Wouldn't that be just ducky?!
Iran also gives billions to Hamas and Hezzy. This would give them far greater power over the west than previously held. How long do you think it would be after Iran gets their many many bombs in order before one is given to Hamas? Trust them to be responsible with a nuke?

Dude, I'm terrified...

There, we're up to speed on the BASICS. Keep notes if you need to.

again... you pompous/arrogant ass.

Just admit you haven't the foggiest of what is going on over there and move on. You've spent almost a year on this and I'm still having to explain BASIC regional and global scenarios which you seem to think are unimportant.

They don't think it's unimportant, and are working very hard towards their goals.

Like I said, what you think is irrelevant to Iran. Ignoring them won't work, and appeasing them won't work.

You seem to think just let it go and hope for the best. This is exactly why that sort of thinking has no place in global politics, unless you like to a loser.

Hey pada, isn't it obvious what Iran would do with a nuclear weapon? We went to war at the thought of Saddam having one, yet we should just let the facts slip and allow Iran to continue down the path of nuclear armament? Iran(Persia) has been against the west for centuries, against Israel for centuries, their dictator spews racist propaganda and promises death of the west and America, and you need proof that they would use nuclear weapons against us? It's common sense. I like how you didn't respond to CJ, rather tell him how conceited he was. I think he did a pretty good job explaining, I don't understand how you would support a dictator of those sorts acquiring nuclear power.

I'm just not buying what you're selling Cracker. I've asked you for the proof of your claims, and you come back with nothing but "you should already know this" or "I shouldn't have to explain it to you..", when I don't recall you ever supporting your opinions with any facts. I know Iran is building nuclear reactors, and I know they're enriching uranium, which violates a few different treaties, we both agree on this. But you're saying Iran is building a bomb, and they're going to use the bomb once they develope it, something to which I've seen no evidence for. The inspectors say they shut down their nuclear weapons program in 03, and are only enriching uranium 5%, consistent with energy production, and not 90%, the grade you would need to produce weapons grade material.

Ignoring them won't work, appeasing them wont wor'k... so lets go drop some bombs! That'll solve all our problems!

Someone finally gave me a reason to use the word flabbergasted, cuz damn dude, that's exactly how I feel about that line of reasoning...

Hey pada, isn't it obvious what Iran would do with a nuclear weapon? We went to war at the thought of Saddam having one, yet we should just let the facts slip and allow Iran to continue down the path of nuclear armament? Iran(Persia) has been against the west for centuries, against Israel for centuries, their dictator spews racist propaganda and promises death of the west and America, and you need proof that they would use nuclear weapons against us? It's common sense. I like how you didn't respond to CJ, rather tell him how conceited he was. I think he did a pretty good job explaining, I don't understand how you would support a dictator of those sorts acquiring nuclear power.

Click to expand...

Iran is not developing nuclear weapons, if they are, it should not be this hard to prove it. If you show me some proof, I will gladly agree that they are, why would I still hold this same position if I knew they were? Somebody explain that to me...

Israel was established in 1948, how could Iran oppose a country that didn't exist centuries before it was created?

John McCain said "Bomb bomb bomb Iran" during the campaign. Should we conclude that if he were the president, that's the action he'd take... just because he said it?

You clearly did not read my post, as I specifically said "Again, be clear, I'm not and never have supported we just let Iran develope a nuclear weapon, I am against that.". I am against all nuclear weapons, I think the only purpose they serve is to threaten other nations into submission or terrorize people, they serve zero beneficial purposes to mankind.

I am against Iran developing nuclear weapons, but they have every right to produce nuclear energy.

One point I want to make clear, is that pre-emptive strikes against nations by manipulating the UN with faulty intelligence does not help us. It helps the rich politicians and their defense contractor buddies get rich. It helps energy corporations rake in huge profits. War in the modern age is about money. That should be obvious to anyone paying attention. They scammed the country once with the exact same fairy tale and you guys are falling for it again less than one decade later.

If Iran truly wanted to detonate a nuclear warhead, it would be the end of the way that country operated from that point on, I guarantee it. That government would get destroyed for such an act. Every single leader would be held accountable for war crimes and crimes against humanity. It would be a VERY STUPID THING for Iran to do, yet you'll both oppose this position and still can't list anything Iran stands to gain from such a move, because hey, I should already know right...?

Pre-emptive strikes are rarely justifiable. If we go in before Iran does anything, we're automatically the bad guys in the rest of the worlds eyes (I realize you don't give a damn about what the international community thinks of us, but it's a very important diplomatic tool to have allies that trust us and can depend on us to do the right thing, when they see such things, they question that view). If we wait until we are absolutely sure Iran is partaking in illegal activities or positioning for an attack of some kind, then attack, it would be completely justified and everyone would support it, manipulating the evidence wouldn't be necessary. Bush's "the first warning might come in the form of a mushroom cloud" is nonsense, and has always been nonsense. We would know well before then what would need to be done. Which is why your paranoia is pretty unwarranted.

Iran is building no bomb they are years away . . . our own CIA reports say that of course the UN, NATO, and the Pentagon will make up a reason to go to war in time . . . .

Still looking for those WMD's CJ?

The problem is, Iran wants to take that nuclear energy they have a right to, and produce a bomb.

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

The problem is, Iran wants to take that nuclear energy they have a right to, and produce a bomb.

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Source?

Like I said, if that was true, it would not be hard to prove.

There is NO BOMB!!!