Is a CFL cabinet @ 525w (actual) 30,000 lumen in a 18"x22" cabinet too many lumen?

J

jusblazed

Member
Rottedroots said:
Temps sound OK blaze. They could be better by some standards but the plants won't know. How cold are you getting. That was a bigger issue for me at the beginning of this grow than the heat. Had to go to heated seedling mats. Warm roots made the plants very happy even if the air was a little cool at night.
I hope this turns into a slick grow thread but the name may keep it festering like a boil on your ass. ;-) Good Luck!!!
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lol thanks! I might need to start a new thread once they go in and keep this as a build thread. Here is a diagram I came up with real quick and loose like, showing how the spread of the lights adds the lumen. I did not add the benefit of reflectors above the bulbs, just the throw of the lightlumen combined.jpg the darkest being the combined throw of 4 lights...
 
electronug

electronug

Active Member
jusblazed said:
Not a single reference to this myth that "lumens are not additive" has come to light or any examples, demonstrations etc. Every source I personally have come upon has stated that lumen DO add. Soooooo.... wtf are you guys babbling on about how 5 5000lm bulbs will only make 5000lm ? There is a STICKIE FOR THIS SITE SHOWING THE FACTS: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/83128-lumens-lux-adding-all-up.html,
so get off your ill informed high horses and your incorrect understanding of light and stop giving out incorrect information...
Also while we are on horses lets stop beating the dead one of HPS is better blah blah blah blah... This IS a CFL thread... there are reasons to use CFL. A 2.25 square foot floor space with limited ventilation is one of those situations... :roll: I would like to see you guys build a rig with as many lumen for under 100 bux including venting...

On another note I got my temps down to 86 degrees 4" from the light for the past 4 hrs.... If this holds I will be putting the girls in tomorrow or wed... =)
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When you figure out how to position those CFLs to ensure that every light is an equal distance to every surface of every plant in your cabinet, then you can add them up...

Until then, you're not actually growing with those numbers... figuratively, maybe.

And for the record (as stated previously), I have 430W in my 18x18 cabinet -- While can't say that it cost under $100 (because I didn't fall ass-backwards into a great deal on lights), I'm doing exactly what you are... it's no big deal :)
 
electronug

electronug

Active Member
jusblazed said:
lol thanks! I might need to start a new thread once they go in and keep this as a build thread. Here is a diagram I came up with real quick and loose like, showing how the spread of the lights adds the lumen. I did not add the benefit of reflectors above the bulbs, just the throw of the lightView attachment 2015437 the darkest being the combined throw of 4 lights...
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Yeah, I remember when I did the same, 2 pages back... :shock:

electronug said:
Maybe this will help...

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Except you failed to take into account the diminishing value of the light... which happens fast with CFL, remember.
 
J

jusblazed

Member
So far it has held 82 the whole night with the carbon filters on the outtake vents. The problem was with my wallyworld temp/humility gauge. It was black plastic and would heat up under the lights giving high readings. I didnt think the air temps or wall temps were 88-89 where it was spiking at after a few hrs run time. I placed a sheet of white paper the top and back of the 3" x2" device, and the temps that it read dropped down to 82 after a few minutes and held steady. (STOKED) I added another thermometer after an hr. and it read the same as the "papered" gauge... (SUPER STOKED) The low was 59/60 in the cab last night, and it has been relatively cold around here so I don't see it dipping any colder unless we lose heat for some reason which I don't anticipate but have space heaters if needed.
electronug, what kind of numbers are you going to pull? You have a grow log? I am interested!
 
glockdoc

glockdoc

Well-Known Member
thanks for handling that bs for me. i thought it was funny at 1st but then those dudes started getting on my nerves with there foolish hypothesis. just keep doing it up blazed keep up the research. and electro 400w cfl will give u serious yield
 
electronug

electronug

Active Member
jusblazed said:
So far it has held 82 the whole night with the carbon filters on the outtake vents. The problem was with my wallyworld temp/humility gauge. It was black plastic and would heat up under the lights giving high readings. I didnt think the air temps or wall temps were 88-89 where it was spiking at after a few hrs run time. I placed a sheet of white paper the top and back of the 3" x2" device, and the temps that it read dropped down to 82 after a few minutes and held steady. (STOKED) I added another thermometer after an hr. and it read the same as the "papered" gauge... (SUPER STOKED) The low was 59/60 in the cab last night, and it has been relatively cold around here so I don't see it dipping any colder unless we lose heat for some reason which I don't anticipate but have space heaters if needed.
electronug, what kind of numbers are you going to pull? You have a grow log? I am interested!
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No idea on numbers as this is the first run... Hoping for a couple ounces.

Temps are relatively stable only because of the time of year and that it's in my basement near an exterior wall. I plan on doing a run with just the 2x125W and a few supplementary 23W to see how much those extra 4 lights are actually helping. Eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns with CFL and I'm not big on wasting energy.

Log is here: https://www.rollitup.org/stealth-micro-cab-growing/499897-chemdog-ikea-cabinet.html

I haven't posted a fll update in a while and I've taken to using a small space heater to keep the temps above 60 during light out.


glockdoc said:
thanks for handling that bs for me. i thought it was funny at 1st but then those dudes started getting on my nerves with there foolish hypothesis. just keep doing it up blazed keep up the research.
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Which "hypotheses" are you referring to? Surely you're not saying physics is a hypothesis?

and electro 400w cfl will give u serious yield
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Hopefully.

I spread them as efficiently as possible with the space and equipment I had...
 
glockdoc

glockdoc

Well-Known Member
there blasphemous claims that lumens didnt add up like people think. im well over it but yea 400 w of cfl will yield real good. ive seen grows with 170w yield 60-90 g dry with just water and a little bit of bio bizz (1 time the whole grow) and scog. i can provide the link for those that are intrested. numerous grows in numerous cabs and all yields fell into a consistent average so it will give u a good understanding of what you could probably see with 400w
 
electronug

electronug

Active Member
As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been legitimate evidence on either side of the argument.

It ultimately comes down to effective distribution of available light. You can't stack lights inside each other to group all available lumen into a single source and you can only get them so close to each other which limits the actual viewable angle of light that will overlap -- add to this that your plants are 1-2" from the bulbs and that almost eliminates the distance required for the usable spectrum of light to cross paths and "add up"...

The human eye sees increased brightness/intensity because of the spectrum of light that, for the most part, isn't used by the plant. It bounces around and reflects, creating a brighter space, but I wouldn't go around saying that those photos that have reflected 3-4 times carry much usable PAR for the plants to absorb.

Because of this, I'm choosing to rate my cabinet based on WATTAGE rather than lumen.
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
electronug said:
As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been legitimate evidence on either side of the argument.

It ultimately comes down to effective distribution of available light. You can't stack lights inside each other to group all available lumen into a single source and you can only get them so close to each other which limits the actual viewable angle of light that will overlap -- add to this that your plants are 1-2" from the bulbs and that almost eliminates the distance required for the usable spectrum of light to cross paths and "add up"...

The human eye sees increased brightness/intensity because of the spectrum of light that, for the most part, isn't used by the plant. It bounces around and reflects, creating a brighter space, but I wouldn't go around saying that those photos that have reflected 3-4 times carry much usable PAR for the plants to absorb.

Because of this, I'm choosing to rate my cabinet based on WATTAGE rather than lumen.
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Based on the behavior of CFl's and HID, I would recommend CFL's for a small cab, HID if you plan on growing taller plants. Let's not forget, CFL ballasts last a while, but the bulb fails, so you toss it all. This is not earth friendly. :lol:
 
electronug

electronug

Active Member
9 year warranties make them desirable for people on a budget. :)

The other factor is the lumen value given is the INITIAL lumen and that shit fades over time, so it's best to track your hours and replace them as needed.

I would love to run a 150W in my space... I'm slowly putting it together.
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
electronug said:
9 year warranties make them desirable for people on a budget. :)

The other factor is the lumen value given is the INITIAL lumen and that shit fades over time, so it's best to track your hours and replace them as needed.

I would love to run a 150W in my space... I'm slowly putting it together.
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9 year warranty is not shabby at all!
 
glockdoc

glockdoc

Well-Known Member
im bout to scoop up a 150 too. its medium base bulb so i wont require a ballast true? just a medium size 200w standard socket?
 
Rottedroots

Rottedroots

Well-Known Member
Electro. I believe you're correct which is a shame. I was given half a dozen 100w and 150w bulbs in both ml and hps. They do/did have the right bases but sadly required ballasts to be of ANY use. I'll tell you I was pumped prior to looking into ballasts. Not only were they the ballasts were expensive, each bulb needed its own. I may look into how to use them in the future but wtf. HA HA. I did read on the boxes afterwards warning against even attempting to use them in regular sockets. Something about an explosion!!!!! Live and learn.
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
Any one who claims lumens stack must quantify how light interacts with light. Have fun! Seeing as how light can't interact with light directly (without a matter catalyst), please quantify how matter phases from the Higgs Boson, somehow boosts the lumens, and then phases back. Much obliged. -Afrawfraw

I think what you mean is that all the ENERGY, or LIGHT stacks. But thirty 5,000 lumen lights are still 5,000 lumens, no more intense. But they exert far more ENERGY, or LIGHT, than just 1 bulb would.

Why isn't this horse getting up!?? (Whip,Whip) Get up horsey! (Whip,Whip)
 
glockdoc

glockdoc

Well-Known Member
well im telling you i found a medium base 150 w hps bulb were i live they sell both mogul and medium base at a local store so back to my question. at only 150w would it require a ballast?
 
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