Is Biden really that bad?

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Bagginski

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I see tautology here, but I could be wrong.

It is my impression that people cling to flawed ideologies for deeply emotional reasons. The amygdala thing.

Thus any ideological erosion necessarily brings emotional trauma.

So while my focus was other, I imagine we were looking at the same Mount Fuji from different perspectives.

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You’re not especially wrong or anything: that this is primarily an emotional upheaval, and not really any kind of thought process, is a distinction I wanted to make clear. Not unlike a grown person wailing like a baby at their parent’s last breath
 
Bagginski

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
While I largely agree with your thesis of that man losing support through sheer overwhelming erosion of ideology by event, I’m not at all convinced that Christianity will take a hit.

I do hope however that dominionism gets its wings clipped a bit. Having the most rabid Freedom Cockups as their talking heads has got to leave a mark.
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Why *do* I say Christianity will suffer?

because a major component of what breaks the GOOP frame also breaks the satangelical frame: the realization you’ve been MASSIVELY lied to by the people you trusted the most. That’s something *everyone* takes seriously, one way or another - and the more you’ve trusted them the more shocking and bitter the realization that you’ve been played by them…and in the evangelical, trad-value ranks, stuff like that can end lifelong friendships. As the wave of realization breaks over them, they WILL face the realization that the people who taught the bullshit in Sunday school, who preached the bullshit on Sundays & on the radio daily, who sold the bullshit on the web…are the same ones who taught you about Jesus, about the Christian life, about prosperity gospel (Calvinism/social-Darwinism) - about gays, abortions, vaccines, Negroes, America, and smiting the heathen.

A surprising number of people take up Paulianity because they’re playing it safe (see Pascal’s wager) - eternal torture not being the crowd-pleaser it once was. Ditto ‘conservatives’ US politics: ‘conservative’ is *defined* as risk-averse, so trad-values, old-time religion, don’t-rock-the-boat policies (pre-MAGA, anyway) have seemed like the safest play for a long time, but there are runs on banks and churches abandoned as people lose faith in their business / spiritual leaders. Like it or not, this is a waking up: eventually, there will be something that we simply cannot sleep thru…and then we’re awake. We can see and hear what’s actually happening, what’s really being said, our (unused? disused?) cognitive abilities get brought to bear on the confusion that is reality once again, and the dream fades away.

I get that it sounds like wishful thinking, but human behavior bears it out as a real thing: the pieces WILL be put back together, rearranged; exactly how that will manifest is what can’t be predicted…but we will live long enough (most of us) to see it under way
 
Herb & Suds

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
harris hawk said:
Well Biden will go down in history as the United States WORSE President - he really has changed the course of American History - and your children will feel the change !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We might need Alien intervention
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Tell us what a horrible human being Jimmy Carter is too
And I wonder why Trump loyalist let him refer to them as uneducated
I wonder no more
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Bagginski said:
Why *do* I say Christianity will suffer?

because a major component of what breaks the GOOP frame also breaks the satangelical frame: the realization you’ve been MASSIVELY lied to by the people you trusted the most. That’s something *everyone* takes seriously, one way or another - and the more you’ve trusted them the more shocking and bitter the realization that you’ve been played by them…and in the evangelical, trad-value ranks, stuff like that can end lifelong friendships. As the wave of realization breaks over them, they WILL face the realization that the people who taught the bullshit in Sunday school, who preached the bullshit on Sundays & on the radio daily, who sold the bullshit on the web…are the same ones who taught you about Jesus, about the Christian life, about prosperity gospel (Calvinism/social-Darwinism) - about gays, abortions, vaccines, Negroes, America, and smiting the heathen.

A surprising number of people take up Paulianity because they’re playing it safe (see Pascal’s wager) - eternal torture not being the crowd-pleaser it once was. Ditto ‘conservatives’ US politics: ‘conservative’ is *defined* as risk-averse, so trad-values, old-time religion, don’t-rock-the-boat policies (pre-MAGA, anyway) have seemed like the safest play for a long time, but there are runs on banks and churches abandoned as people lose faith in their business / spiritual leaders. Like it or not, this is a waking up: eventually, there will be something that we simply cannot sleep thru…and then we’re awake. We can see and hear what’s actually happening, what’s really being said, our (unused? disused?) cognitive abilities get brought to bear on the confusion that is reality once again, and the dream fades away.

I get that it sounds like wishful thinking, but human behavior bears it out as a real thing: the pieces WILL be put back together, rearranged; exactly how that will manifest is what can’t be predicted…but we will live long enough (most of us) to see it under way
Click to expand...
I imagine that deep down, you’re more of an optimist than I am. I’ve known too many people who use draconian evangelical doctrine as a first filter, as axiom beyond possible challenge.

I believe that this is a basic or common feature of the sort of mind evolution has given us, or with which it has burdened us. I also think we are stuck there, but for one emergent thing.

As we relentlessly pick apart the mechanisms of life and mind, I think it is probable that we will arrive at the point where we can retool the physical substrate of our natures. It will be a true Frankenstein or Oppenheimer moment: awful in its beauty, grim and glorious.

I anticipate the human species to shatter into an evolutionary radiation that will make the Cambrian “explosion” look as slow as a galaxy’s stirring. And boy howdy; there will be war.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Bagginski said:
Why *do* I say Christianity will suffer?

because a major component of what breaks the GOOP frame also breaks the satangelical frame: the realization you’ve been MASSIVELY lied to by the people you trusted the most. That’s something *everyone* takes seriously, one way or another - and the more you’ve trusted them the more shocking and bitter the realization that you’ve been played by them…and in the evangelical, trad-value ranks, stuff like that can end lifelong friendships. As the wave of realization breaks over them, they WILL face the realization that the people who taught the bullshit in Sunday school, who preached the bullshit on Sundays & on the radio daily, who sold the bullshit on the web…are the same ones who taught you about Jesus, about the Christian life, about prosperity gospel (Calvinism/social-Darwinism) - about gays, abortions, vaccines, Negroes, America, and smiting the heathen.

A surprising number of people take up Paulianity because they’re playing it safe (see Pascal’s wager) - eternal torture not being the crowd-pleaser it once was. Ditto ‘conservatives’ US politics: ‘conservative’ is *defined* as risk-averse, so trad-values, old-time religion, don’t-rock-the-boat policies (pre-MAGA, anyway) have seemed like the safest play for a long time, but there are runs on banks and churches abandoned as people lose faith in their business / spiritual leaders. Like it or not, this is a waking up: eventually, there will be something that we simply cannot sleep thru…and then we’re awake. We can see and hear what’s actually happening, what’s really being said, our (unused? disused?) cognitive abilities get brought to bear on the confusion that is reality once again, and the dream fades away.

I get that it sounds like wishful thinking, but human behavior bears it out as a real thing: the pieces WILL be put back together, rearranged; exactly how that will manifest is what can’t be predicted…but we will live long enough (most of us) to see it under way
Click to expand...
I think religion is on it's way out, but most because of apathy...people just don't care about it like they used to.
The republicans ride religion like a whore dressed as a nun in a leather habit, and that is helping turn many people off of it in general, as well.
News travels too fast for it to get swept under the rug like it used to, and many are electing not to support a church that supports republicans.
Many believe in the divide between church and state, and can see that they have no business interfering in politics, and they especially have no place in the judicial system.
What ever the cause, the entire process can't go fast enough for me. religion needs to die, it's caused much too much harm to be allowed to live.
 
Bagginski

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I imagine that deep down, you’re more of an optimist than I am. I’ve known too many people who use draconian evangelical doctrine as a first filter, as axiom beyond possible challenge.
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Maybe so…my life has made searching for ways out, for light in the darkness, a very high priority - and it’s been hella fucking work: I couldn’t have stayed alive this long without that will and intent (no real idea why I’m still alive at all, I’ve struggled to fit in on this planet the whole time) - or even stayed as positive as I (may) still remain.

Like my interest in politics, much of it started with The Bomb, back in the days when when I work in a cold sweat when The Bomb went off in my dreams every night. ‘Maybe the shit show IS inevitable, but I can’t work with that’…so, yeah, maybe I’ve preached not freaking out / not giving up / not backing down because *I* need to hear it; I’ve sought out, encouraged, supported, worked with people who’re focused on “shit-show alternatives because everything else seems short-sighted, self-destructive…but others have told me that *they* need to hear it, too, to keep going thru the shitstorm, to keep *their* folks going, since it’s enough like the real shitstorm already.

Maybe I just refuse to give up in the face of overwhelming odds - nah, no ‘maybe’ about that. I’m no effing good at giving up…haven’t even given up on myself yet, no matter how much I want to.

I believe that this is a basic or common feature of the sort of mind evolution has given us, or with which it has burdened us. I also think we are stuck there, but for one emergent thing.

As we relentlessly pick apart the mechanisms of life and mind, I think it is probable that we will arrive at the point where we can retool the physical substrate of our natures. It will be a true Frankenstein or Oppenheimer moment: awful in its beauty, grim and glorious.
Click to expand...
Sounds like utter horror to me: but one of my favorite teachers would say, ‘think of it as evolution in action’…because it is.

Allow me to point out another emergent trait: pattern recognition.

Yeah, it gets us into trouble when we imagine patterns instead of recognizing them (that’s what makes Big Lies possible in some ways), but it’s also at the heart of human development, ingenuity, & creativity. If we ever make it to a point when authoritarian “freedom lovers” aren’t able to drag us backwards 200 years, we should be able to make the sort of common-sense, practical improvements OUR FOUNDERS DREAMED OF in pursuit of the more perfect Union of their vision, instead of just perpetuating the barbaric bullshit of the past (‘cause tradition!)

Whatever. Either way, I’m no Pollyanna & have no use at all for wishful thinking, excuses, or toxic ‘traditions’, not even my own: positive thinking & happy thoughts are fine ‘n’ all, but choice, focus, intent are far more valuable & effective

I anticipate the human species to shatter into an evolutionary radiation that will make the Cambrian “explosion” look as slow as a galaxy’s stirring. And boy howdy; there will be war.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the road to Lemming Beach, I hope it doesn’t go that way: auto-da-fe, for reals…but the planet has hosted massive die-off events in the past, there’s simply no reason to assume we won’t get another (I think some of us are planning on a few), regardless of the stupidity we get up to…& your vision would just be another one in a series (“collect the whole set!!!”).

This has me contemplating “apocalypse”: the rending of the veil that conceals the Mysteries. No need to wait for ‘the apocalypse” because it’s under way NOW: our situation is very much that. Some will be enlightened, some will switch sides, some will give up, some will go mad(der) - but ALL *will* be changed…so I will to maintain pressure towards the full (& maximally peaceful) completion.

I believe in the pressure more than the hope (and speaking of hope, I hope I haven’t garbled this comment too badly)
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Bagginski said:
Maybe so…my life has made searching for ways out, for light in the darkness, a very high priority - and it’s been hella fucking work: I couldn’t have stayed alive this long without that will and intent (no real idea why I’m still alive at all, I’ve struggled to fit in on this planet the whole time) - or even stayed as positive as I (may) still remain.

Like my interest in politics, much of it started with The Bomb, back in the days when when I work in a cold sweat when The Bomb went off in my dreams every night. ‘Maybe the shit show IS inevitable, but I can’t work with that’…so, yeah, maybe I’ve preached not freaking out / not giving up / not backing down because *I* need to hear it; I’ve sought out, encouraged, supported, worked with people who’re focused on “shit-show alternatives because everything else seems short-sighted, self-destructive…but others have told me that *they* need to hear it, too, to keep going thru the shitstorm, to keep *their* folks going, since it’s enough like the real shitstorm already.

Maybe I just refuse to give up in the face of overwhelming odds - nah, no ‘maybe’ about that. I’m no effing good at giving up…haven’t even given up on myself yet, no matter how much I want to.



Sounds like utter horror to me: but one of my favorite teachers would say, ‘think of it as evolution in action’…because it is.

Allow me to point out another emergent trait: pattern recognition.

Yeah, it gets us into trouble when we imagine patterns instead of recognizing them (that’s what makes Big Lies possible in some ways), but it’s also at the heart of human development, ingenuity, & creativity. If we ever make it to a point when authoritarian “freedom lovers” aren’t able to drag us backwards 200 years, we should be able to make the sort of common-sense, practical improvements OUR FOUNDERS DREAMED OF in pursuit of the more perfect Union of their vision, instead of just perpetuating the barbaric bullshit of the past (‘cause tradition!)

Whatever. Either way, I’m no Pollyanna & have no use at all for wishful thinking, excuses, or toxic ‘traditions’, not even my own: positive thinking & happy thoughts are fine ‘n’ all, but choice, focus, intent are far more valuable & effective


Sounds like the road to Lemming Beach, I hope it doesn’t go that way: auto-da-fe, for reals…but the planet has hosted massive die-off events in the past, there’s simply no reason to assume we won’t get another (I think some of us are planning on a few), regardless of the stupidity we get up to…& your vision would just be another one in a series (“collect the whole set!!!”).

This has me contemplating “apocalypse”: the rending of the veil that conceals the Mysteries. No need to wait for ‘the apocalypse” because it’s under way NOW: our situation is very much that. Some will be enlightened, some will switch sides, some will give up, some will go mad(der) - but ALL *will* be changed…so I will to maintain pressure towards the full (& maximally peaceful) completion.

I believe in the pressure more than the hope (and speaking of hope, I hope I haven’t garbled this comment too badly)
Click to expand...
About thirty years ago I awoke from one of those super-real dreams. Family and friends were having a do in a hi-rise condo with a wall of glass looking west from the Maryland beach. We watched the twilight get interrupted by a dozen growing streaks of fire as the missiles tipped north.

Pattern recognition, for better or for worse: I believe that this is either component or cognate to the same psychological quirk that has us gravitating toward ideologies, like (but not limited to) theism, that Explain Things. But, because of our natures, our conceptions are simplistic, and we spend our lives pounding inconvenient square pegs of experience into the nice round hole of belief. (And unfortunately our relationships as well.)

On the last, I think you miss a crucial point. In unguided evolution, the key is separating a population into two environments with (sometimes subtly) different adaptive drivers. One species enters; two species leave. In my fever-dream this is done because the spectators will no longer be confined to planets and will be in far-flung locales. (Planets are cradles. Asteroids are kindergarten. The cool kids with learner’s permits are building polyhedral pitch-black überstealth dreadnoughts in the Oortlands and operating truly huge surveillance arrays. In most iterations, the Mother Rock is a cinder or a narrow brilliant ring of gravel around old Sol.) No; the struggle will rage across the solar system and steadily infiltrate the vast sparse savanna between stars, as the grandchildren of Homo s. adapt spaceworthy physicalities.

Finally, I love that phrase. “Think of it as evolution in action.” It was a repeating theme in Niven’s Oath of Fealty.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
That's SOCIALISM! He's picking on them poor billionaire's Lord! We need more tax cuts for those super rich to solve America's problems and more military spending, even if they say they don't need it, because the brown people might get some too! Cut benefits to the old, young and vets, but don't tax the rich or fund the IRS to catch them when they cheat! It's better to fuck America and fuck themselves rather than the "enemy" get some too, better to burn the house down than let them in. America needs more wealth imbalance and more power to the rich, it will be worth it just to get the brown folks and trigger the libs! Just because they will fuck themselves is not that important because in any war sacrifices have to be made for victory, even if they don't know what victory is or means, just as long as it makes their enemies feel bad.

Is there any choice at all for a rational person in America? Obviously not for a patriot or anybody with an ounce of common-sense, America is now a one-party state and it's not the republican party, that has become a national suicide cult.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1662488836717400064
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
When Hell freezes over! :lol: Maybe Kevin should have made it a demand for the debt ceiling? Talk about being "disloyal" to Trump! He should have crashed the global economy for him at the very least... :lol:

I wonder how long it will take Jack to indict Trump after Joe signs the bill. The last I heard from the legal pundits and experts is a week or two after the Memorial Day weekend.

www.rawstory.com

Fox's Peter Doocy asks Biden about future presidents pardoning Trump — here's his response

Fox's White House correspondent Peter Doocy is known for causing a multitude of responses from President Joe Biden with questions. In January 2023, the two clashed after classified documents were found in Biden's garage. Doocy implied that his case was the same as Donald Trump, however, Biden...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com


Biden responds to idea of pardons for Donald Trump
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Dark Brandon cornered them and will use this to divide them since the democrats will vote for it along with republicans from moderate districts. Of course, the magats and Trump will take revenge on Kevin for not crashing the global economy. After all Hitler gained power in the wake of the great depression and economic catastrophe in Germany, so they try to setup the same conditions in America.

We will see what will happen in the next couple of weeks with Trump getting indicted over the MAL docs, obstruction and possibly the espionage act. That might put him in jail until trial and I don't think Garland wants him locked up just yet, besides it wouldn't be necessary anyway and could further compromise secret information. Trump would be gone for life over the obstruction charges alone and the willful retention charges will mean time too. We will see, but espionage charges usually mean incarceration until trial, however Trump does have a SS detail and it could be used as an excuse to leave him running around loose. It depends on how vigorously Jack opposes his release, if espionage is involved.

As long as he is loose Trump will keep the republican party from getting its shit together and rebranding before the election and he will divide them if he loses. I think the greater danger is DeSantis and the longer he is fighting with Trump the better and the more divided the republicans become. If Trump loses the GOP nomination it would be best if he ran as a bull moose to syphon off republican votes, it would be even better if he endorsed his own house and senate candidates!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663719102358204421
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

‘Joe Biden won’: Lawrence on the President’s successful debt ceiling strategy

249,572 views May 31, 2023 #msnbc #biden #debtceiling
The pure guesswork MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell offered last week about what President Biden was trying to achieve in debt ceiling negotiations turned out to be true now that Biden and Speaker Kevin McCarthy have reached an agreement.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Lawrence: The Biden debt negotiating team did an ‘incredibly good job’

143,437 views Jun 1, 2023 #msnbc #biden #debtceiling
The House of Representatives voted to eliminate the debt ceiling for two years. MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell explains why that outcome was almost unimaginable a week ago because Republicans were behaving like Logan Roy’s spoiled children.
 
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