Is it bad that I want to go to war?

M

Michael Phelps

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
That's because to separate urself from the consequences of ur actions, you must disassociate the troops from the homeland.

Telegraphing division from home emboldens the enemy, and costs US soldiers their lives.
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Agreed.

a couple of my best friends are in the military, infact i was hanging out with one them last night.

I support him as in he has to live his life for him and he has to do whats going to make him happy.

But as for saying you full on support the troops, you cant oppose war and support the troops. Thats kind of an oxy moron thing to say, especially when at this point people are choosing to join the military, its there job, they get payed good money for this.

Thats like when people say, well i didnt kill this animal right here that im eating so i dont feel bad. Oxy moron, by eating it you are killing it.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
CrackerJax said:
It's not about our troops, but they do care. When ur out on a limb, it's nice to know the folks who sent you ... care.

More importantly, it is the message sent to the ENEMY.

Case in point. Vietnam ... right after the TET offensive.

Now I don't know what you've been told about the TET offensive, but it was a complete failure for the Viet Cong. They failed to obtain ONE objective and their loss of life was horrendous.
The leaders knew they had spent the last best reserves of their manpower on TET, and it failed.
They were in the midst of discussing a way to a cease fire to get out of the conflict intact, when lo and behold there was Walter Cronkite on the news saying the war was lost for the USA. It was most certainly not, it was on the brink of victory. The USA had finally broken the Viet Cong.

BUT telegraphing the home loss of support was all the Viet Cong needed to HANG, till we did GIVE UP.

So you can all walk around and think you can have it both ways, but you can't.

Telegraphing weakness from home gets our guys killed. It's free propaganda for the enemy.
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ROFL! So Walter Cronkite was the reason we lost Vietnam!! :clap::clap::clap:
 
T

tical916

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
Walter Cronkite, Jane Fonda, Donald Sutherland, Dan Rather, John Kerry, et al.

In 1995 the Wall Street Journal Interviewed Colonel Bui Tin, formerly of the North Vietnamese Army General Staff.

How North Vietnam Won The War

He goes as far as to claim that the U.S. lost the war because of Democracy.
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There was no way to win the Vietnam war unless we were willing to bomb the entire county. Just like they're is no way to win these "wars" we are currently in. We are not fighting armies, we fighting pockets of men here and there. When some die more step up. We are wasting billions of dollars, our friends/relatives are losing their lives other there. And for what? So we can put up a Mcdonalds in the Middle East?

To the OP, you sound like a spoiled kid that thinks War will make you some sort of man. You say you live a privileged life, then do something with it. The only reason I joined the Marine Corps because my life was going to the shitter and had no options to improve it. You most likely will be one the new guys who freak out, piss their pants and run the instant bullets start flying.

There is no glamor in war, it's not fun. Most of the time your sitting around in 100+ degree heat doing jack shit.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Johnnyorganic said:
Walter Cronkite, Jane Fonda, Donald Sutherland, Dan Rather, John Kerry, et al.

In 1995 the Wall Street Journal Interviewed Colonel Bui Tin, formerly of the North Vietnamese Army General Staff.

How North Vietnam Won The War

He goes as far as to claim that the U.S. lost the war because of Democracy.
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Good insight.

That interview makes sense, regarding military strategy. I did a little background checking into the publication;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FrontPageMagazine

Founder - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz_(conservative_writer)

...just sayin'.


Anyway, my bad Cracker, but dude, honestly, don't let that go to your head even more. Like I always say, there's nothing wrong with being wrong about shit, it's when you don't admit when you're wrong that makes someone ignorant.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
Good insight.

That interview makes sense, regarding military strategy. I did a little background checking into the publication;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FrontPageMagazine

Founder - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz_(conservative_writer)

...just sayin'.


Anyway, my bad Cracker, but dude, honestly, don't let that go to your head even more. Like I always say, there's nothing wrong with being wrong about shit, it's when you don't admit when you're wrong that makes someone ignorant.
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I used that link because the original Wall Street Journal article from 1995 was no longer available. There were other sources/links for the same article if you prefer.

For the record: There is nothing fundamentally wrong with a slanted source as long as it is up-front about it. Just because a source is biased does not make it incorrect. That goes for any side of the spectrum.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Believe me Paddy, I have no self inflated ego. :wink:

That support the troops but not the war is a bunch of buffalo dung, but once that lie gets past the first gates, it's off and running.

Basically, if you look at the TET offensive, it scared the PANTS off the reporters who were not in the bush. They were sipping martinis and bombs were able to come close to them. They about wet their pants.
Besides the DISHONOR of breaking the yearly TET event cease fire(a holiday spiritual event for all Vietnamese), with complete surprise on their side, they attacked ... and we held. But that's not what was reported on.

Ol fat Wally was on Prime Time (when there was only three channels to watch) saying we had lost the war.

Don't get me started..... :lol:
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
CrackerJax said:
Believe me Paddy, I have no self inflated ego. :wink:

That support the troops but not the war is a bunch of buffalo dung, but once that lie gets past the first gates, it's off and running.

Basically, if you look at the TET offensive, it scared the PANTS off the reporters who were not in the bush. They were sipping martinis and bombs were able to come close to them. They about wet their pants.
Besides the DISHONOR of breaking the yearly TET event cease fire(a holiday spiritual event for all Vietnamese), with complete surprise on their side, they attacked ... and we held. But that's not what was reported on.

Ol fat Wally was on Prime Time (when there was only three channels to watch) saying we had lost the war.

Don't get me started..... :lol:
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You guys are probably right, I wasn't around during the Vietnam war, so all I really have is what I've learned about it. But I wouldn't attribute the entire outcome to negative American morale, would you agree with that?

-which was the innitial point to begin with. I think it's more complicated than that. That seems too simple to be the reason we withdrew.
 
cackpircings

cackpircings

Well-Known Member
I’ve seen the Wars first hand and I would say that deep down inside we all want to be a hero. Truth is war isn’t for everyone. Being a hero isn’t for everyone. It goes to show what some people would fight and die for and what others would run from. When you have a feeling in your heart that is telling you to do something just go do it. Don’t wait around because one day you will wish you had done it. Fighting in a war was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I feel complete (however sometimes I wish I could go back) I feel like I fought for my brother and sisters, and in return I feel proud when people talk about it and I have the opportunity to give firsthand knowledge of the things I had seen while there. I miss my brothers that I fought along with and the memories that I was given. If you asked me if I would ever do it again, without hesitation I would tell you FUCK YEAH! Because it wasn’t just about the rise the war had given me but the fact that I was fighting for the greatest country in the world and no matter what any softy would ever have to say about it, that my friend would be the point. I fought for the freedoms from oppression that not just every American is entitled to, but every last man woman and child on the face of this planet! So I would tell you to go with your gut. Shit you might like it and pull a lifer, and build a carrier along with a retirement. Good luck man.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
PadawanBater said:
You guys are probably right, I wasn't around during the Vietnam war, so all I really have is what I've learned about it. But I wouldn't attribute the entire outcome to negative American morale, would you agree with that?

-which was the innitial point to begin with. I think it's more complicated than that. That seems too simple to be the reason we withdrew.
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I dunno, you tell me. When we win every single engagement and lose the war.... you tell me. We didn't lose it militarily that's for sure.

What happened was the pol's without a set of principles RAN for cover (sound familiar) when given the chance.

Then to turn political cowardice into real desecration, the Congress pulls out but tells the South Vietnamese that if the peace is broken, we will return.

The North promptly broke the peace and we did NOT return. We left instead ... and MILLIONS died.

And the "left" has been gutless ever since.

True story and it reverberates today still in the democrat party.

Know your history folks ... know ur history, because it's still in play today.
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
CrackerJax said:
I dunno, you tell me. When we win every single engagement and lose the war.... you tell me. We didn't lose it militarily that's for sure.

What happened was the pol's without a set of principles RAN for cover (sound familiar) when given the chance.

Then to turn political cowardice into real desecration, the Congress pulls out but tells the South Vietnamese that if the peace is broken, we will return.

The North promptly broke the peace and we did NOT return. We left instead ... and MILLIONS died.

And the "left" has been gutless ever since.

True story and it reverberates today still in the democrat party.

Know your history folks ... know ur history, because it's still in play today.
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Perhaps Vietnam is a situation we should have never gotten involved in... (sound familiar?)
 
tnrtinr

tnrtinr

Well-Known Member
cackpircings said:
I’ve seen the Wars first hand and I would say that deep down inside we all want to be a hero. Truth is war isn’t for everyone. Being a hero isn’t for everyone. It goes to show what some people would fight and die for and what others would run from. When you have a feeling in your heart that is telling you to do something just go do it. Don’t wait around because one day you will wish you had done it. Fighting in a war was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I feel complete (however sometimes I wish I could go back) I feel like I fought for my brother and sisters, and in return I feel proud when people talk about it and I have the opportunity to give firsthand knowledge of the things I had seen while there. I miss my brothers that I fought along with and the memories that I was given. If you asked me if I would ever do it again, without hesitation I would tell you FUCK YEAH! Because it wasn’t just about the rise the war had given me but the fact that I was fighting for the greatest country in the world and no matter what any softy would ever have to say about it, that my friend would be the point. I fought for the freedoms from oppression that not just every American is entitled to, but every last man woman and child on the face of this planet! So I would tell you to go with your gut. Shit you might like it and pull a lifer, and build a carrier along with a retirement. Good luck man.
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Thanks. I had a Marine buddy that loved it.
 
Drgreenz

Drgreenz

Well-Known Member
i think you don't want to see suffering as much as you want to see the glory in war. In the sandbox i saw my fare share of suffering and let me tell you it sucks worse than anything you will ever know. As an infantryman i was the army i was there, the one pulling the trigger and no i don't feel sorry for the scum terrorists i killed but those inocent Iraqis that the terrorists killed is something else. I remember a friend during "cleanup duty" after a bombing, they came in a called for a detail of 6 guys with gloves and garbage bags. what we were cleaning up was human parts. war is not glorious, war is hell. in war you get the chance to pick peices of your friends off of you, what is glorious about that...

with that said though, i loved being in the service more than anything. the bond you make with your teammates is unlike anything else. and there is alot of fun even in war. I was medically retired back in 07 but had i not gotten injured i would have gone for my 20 maybe even 30. the service made me grow up and learn what being a man is all about. i say if you want to go into any branch of the service good for you bro.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
PadawanBater said:
Perhaps Vietnam is a situation we should have never gotten involved in... (sound familiar?)
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No, if you look back at history, we should have been there. That war pointed out the brutality of Communism to the world. It also showed that the USA military is the BEST in the world, if only the back biting at home doesn't mess it up ... sound familiar?


PUBLICLY opposing the war gets our guys killed. Always show the best public face you can.

oh, and NEVER say when ur leaving a war ... sound familiar?

I'm seeing the same mistakes being repeated by the Dem's ... and it's getting ppl killed.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
CrackerJax said:
No, if you look back at history, we should have been there. That war pointed out the brutality of Communism to the world. It also showed that the USA military is the BEST in the world, if only the back biting at home doesn't mess it up ... sound familiar?


PUBLICLY opposing the war gets our guys killed. Always show the best public face you can.

oh, and NEVER say when ur leaving a war ... sound familiar?

I'm seeing the same mistakes being repeated by the Dem's ... and it's getting ppl killed.
Click to expand...

This whole shindig is bipartisan buddy. It's not just the Dem's faults.
 
yellowrain53

yellowrain53

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
It's not about our troops, but they do care. When ur out on a limb, it's nice to know the folks who sent you ... care.

More importantly, it is the message sent to the ENEMY.

Case in point. Vietnam ... right after the TET offensive.

Now I don't know what you've been told about the TET offensive, but it was a complete failure for the Viet Cong. They failed to obtain ONE objective and their loss of life was horrendous.
The leaders knew they had spent the last best reserves of their manpower on TET, and it failed.
They were in the midst of discussing a way to a cease fire to get out of the conflict intact, when lo and behold there was Walter Cronkite on the news saying the war was lost for the USA. It was most certainly not, it was on the brink of victory. The USA had finally broken the Viet Cong.

BUT telegraphing the home loss of support was all the Viet Cong needed to HANG, till we did GIVE UP.

So you can all walk around and think you can have it both ways, but you can't.

Telegraphing weakness from home gets our guys killed. It's free propaganda for the enemy.
Click to expand...


i still disagree. and i stand by my last comment. military personel arent out there doing it because of little yellow ribbons. the reason military personel dont care (maybe a little.....but not much) about the concensus of the general population is because the general population has NO IDEA of what "being deployed" entails. for instance if someone in one of my political-science classes were to explain to me what "honor" and "sacrifice" i would (actually i DID) literally laugh in his/her face. its not that i think said individual is less than me in any way or whatever but like i said said person has no idea. you wanna support the troops? then get us the FUCK out of the desert. if you dont wanna support them thats fine too.....as i said i didnt do it for you anyway. im not throwing rocks nor am i claiming that i have more knowledge on the subject matter than you do......just my perception of things. and from the perspective of an ex-combat troop........ id say the general population of the united states dont give a rats ASS for the troops......just turn on your TV. that should give you an idea of what america deems important. American Idol HUA. okay im gonna shut up and go fuck myself now.
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
yellowrain53 said:
i still disagree. and i stand by my last comment. military personel arent out there doing it because of little yellow ribbons. the reason military personel dont care (maybe a little.....but not much) about the concensus of the general population is because the general population has NO IDEA of what "being deployed" entails. for instance if someone in one of my political-science classes were to explain to me what "honor" and "sacrifice" i would (actually i DID) literally laugh in his/her face. its not that i think said individual is less than me in any way or whatever but like i said said person has no idea. you wanna support the troops? then get us the FUCK out of the desert. if you dont wanna support them thats fine too.....as i said i didnt do it for you anyway. im not throwing rocks nor am i claiming that i have more knowledge on the subject matter than you do......just my perception of things. and from the perspective of an ex-combat troop........ id say the general population of the united states dont give a rats ASS for the troops......just turn on your TV. that should give you an idea of what america deems important. American Idol HUA. okay im gonna shut up and go fuck myself now.
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That earned some rep.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
I said as much as well. It isn't so much for the troops as it is AGAINST the opponent.

The soldiers fight ... for each other.
 
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