Is it love or is it science?

So my boy SUBLBC (not Subcool of TGA) threw up a Youtube video yesterday regarding the love for plants and if it has anything to do with the overall production. Well the video was more or less a joke, but it did touch on a couple subjects that I'd like to get RIU's oppinion on. Being in the production cloning business and having interactions with so many other growers I get to see a lot of things first hand that normal growers wouldn't. For instance our Platinum Purple OG Kush is our most popular cut, and we supply more growers with this strain that most of all the others combined. Seriously! Well I get to see that cut grown out by every type of grower under the sun and I get to see the results. Some growers grow in soil and use very little nutrients or additives and just rely on the soils nutritional values to keep that plant healthy throughout it's life cycle. Other growers grow in UC DWC and pump the plants full of food and grow these monster bushes. And I get to see every style of grow (for the most part) and grower in between. Some growers we supply with 24 clones a week that go in a room of 20k, others have a 400watt closet grow and only need 4-6 clones to meet their needs. Aside from the style of grow and little differences within there is one distinct difference that I see most often between the guys who produce and the guys who get by, and that is...

Science...

I'm not saying love doesn't help things, as I do love my garden, but I am certainly not in love with it. I don't get emotionally attatched to any garden for the fact that it gets too hard to part ways when and if that time comes. If I am in love with my flower room of 24 plants two weeks into flowering and I get a root aphid infestation, my natural love for the plants will cause me to spend time, money, and energy on plants that may not be worth the effort. So without the in love factor, I am able to clear the room out and start over because I know that I will be money ahead that way vs trying to nurse back to health plants that may never fully recover. I see a lot of hobyist growers fall in love with their plants and aren't able to do what I just stated. They feel that their garden is a living and breathing part of life and that everything should be done to keep it alive and healthy, at all costs. The larger scale production (4,000-10,000 watts) growers are less in love with their gardens and have taken a more or less business stance. They rely on science (PH, TDS, PPM, RH, air quality, NPK ratios, and blah blah blah) to get them their good results and thus spending less time nursing plants back to health.

Maybe I got off track a bit and mixed the "love" vs "in love" and "science" vs. "love", so I will try to explain a little better...

Alot of growers rely on how they feel their plants are doing. They look at the foilage and think it's a healthy green, things are groing at an ok speed, and nothing looks wrong so they assume everything is optimal. They don't PH anything, they don't pay attention to NPK ratios or percentages, they have no idea what tds even is, but they can grow crop after crop with nothing more than their feelings of how the plants are doing. Their results are usually average, and thats good enough for them, as the meds are usually for personal only. Then you have growers that rely on science with terms like PH, EC, TDS, PPM all being a part of their everyday vocabulary and functions. They don't water anything without knowing all of these factors first. They check run off water to make sure everything inside is doing what its supposed to and they're not pissing in the wind. There isn't a minute wasted as production is what drives their beast, and overlooking such factors only furthers the odds of having down time. The difference in thc percentages as little as 1% is a big deal for some growers. They are what represents top shelf and their product is what makes this industry what it is.

I am not bashing on hobyist growers or growers that rely on their feelings to judge their plants needs. I'm just curious if other larger scale production type growers would agree? I started in a closet back in the early 90's and my plants at the time were amazing, now I grow on a larger scale and I look back at what I used to think was amazing and laugh. I grew a ton of crops before I even knew that PH had anything to do with a garden, I had no idea how many lumens per square foot were recomended, and I certainly didn't have the nutrient or medium choices that we do now-a-days yet I harvested what I thought were top shelf buds pretty much every grow. Now I grow what I consider the tippy top of the shelf, and I'm not trying to stroke my ego as I hardly have an ego, but I am claiming that I grow a lot higher quality herb than I did before I added science to the equation plain and simple. So with that let the debate begin, does "science" based gardening make for higher quality herb than herb grown with "feelings"?

Staying Medicated,
W.C.C.
 

MyPetSkunk

Active Member
Everybody has different intentions with their grows. Most people here i would say just grow for themselves and their friends, or just for the hell of it. If people are growing for dispensaries, or cash cropping, then yeah, science comes in a little more as they want their product on the tippy-top shelf as you say. Or they want word of mouth on the streets that their weed is the best. And to have the best, you probably will need a bit of science to go with your love of the game. I would say you love your plants, because you go through all the extra steps to ensure they are properly taken care of. My conclusion is they go hand in hand for the best buds. Science is not a necessity, but add it to the mix and you will most likely up your game. That is once you understand the science, or get reliable information on said science.

Would you think a plant grown like a science experiment with no compassion or love for the plant would be better than a plant grown by a gardener with no sense of science, but a love for the plant and its well being?
 

scroglodyte

Well-Known Member
the Chinese have a word for it. Gung Fu. put yourself entirely into an endeavor. i find it to be a better word for my attitude towards gardening.
 

Smokeage

Well-Known Member
It could easily be argued that the attention to details such as PPM, pH, etc is a sign of love in the sense you are talking about it.

Pretty much, I think it has less to do with "feelings" and more to do with end-goals.
 

deejay123

Well-Known Member
Good thread man!

Obviously as you know im a newbie and i think both science and love come into the equation when growing...more science than love in my opinion because as you say to grow the top shelf you have to get everything perfect and bang on the money when it comes to ppm, PH, temps, feed etc!

Personally my garden has taken over my life recently, constantly worrying 24/7! It becomes a big part of your life! Its hard work but im just praying that it pays off!!
Peace
 
deejay123, yeah you have kinda had to learn some of the science first hand this grow haven't ya? Thats another things that can often seperate a grower that gets great results and a grower that just gets by and that is how much time he spends in his garden. Don't get me wrong a grower can spend all day in his room and if he's a moron he's not going to get great results just because he spends a lot of time in there. But take two growers of equal stature and one that spends 5 minutes every other day to water and one that spends 45 minutes every day in his room, the grower who spends more time in his room thus noticing the small details will usually harvest the better of the two. The more time you spend in your garden the more you will learn how your room and plants work. I used to spend hours upon hours in my rooms just sitting around the floor checking out every plant one by one. The garden didn't need it, but it certainly didn't hurt anything and it helped me identify many of my first problems such as spider mites or PM. Just think of how much time a large scale opperation takes from you!

W.C.C.
 

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
The love the act of gardening in general, but I don't put on music for my plants or talk to them.
 

IlovePlants

Well-Known Member
Considering my username I felt the need to chime in on the subject. I love plants, it means I look at them every day, I make sure that they are comfortable in their environment, and I read every piece of literature I can find regarding plant growth. Because I give a shit about them, and I want them looking more alive and beautiful today than yesterday. If you loved healthy people would you try to "love" away the disease of the sick? No. In fact people in Florida attempted to pray away their child's leukemia and he ended up dying, big disgustingly ignorant surprise.

If you love something it doesn't mean that you simply let your passion take control, I would consider that a form of lust, you usually put more time and energy into it than you do most day to day activities. That means taking your resources; passion, energy, time, finances, and putting them towards your goal. If you love a woman, do you just tell her you love her all day, think about her all the time, and look at her with a loving fondness? Fuck no, you go out, put in work, read up on her interests, and generally invest yourself into her life. It's not about you if you love something, it's about what you love. If you really care you look into everything and make sure that you are doing what's best for them and you. That means trial and error. If your girl likes a certain movie once does that mean she always wants to watch it? Maybe, but variety is the spice of life, and so is growth. I would hope that you wouldn't think that monotony and love go hand in hand.

That being said I don't think that plants love people any more than they love CO2. We are just giant CO2 producing animals, so the only real difference that a plant notices when you're in a room... get ready for this one...is that the air seems nice right then. Truly this is the only way they notice you, not by your intentions, but how your presence directly effects them. Even love is chemistry, we need to understand that love waves don't fly through the air, they are stuck moving from neuron to neuron effecting everything we say, do, and feel.

Sincerely,
ILovePlants

P.S. Yeah it's Gung Ho, not Gung Fu.
 

imchucky666

Well-Known Member
Hey, WCC.. You know I'm in my first grow, and I'm trying to be scientific about it I guess, no 'attachment' to my plants, but who knows........ Maybe next time, I will have more time to focus on other things besides "Hm,,,,,, I don't want to post that question, I read it last week."
 

GrowinTheDank

Active Member
Considering my username I felt the need to chime in on the subject. I love plants, it means I look at them every day, I make sure that they are comfortable in their environment, and I read every piece of literature I can find regarding plant growth. Because I give a shit about them, and I want them looking more alive and beautiful today than yesterday. If you loved healthy people would you try to "love" away the disease of the sick? No. In fact people in Florida attempted to pray away their child's leukemia and he ended up dying, big disgustingly ignorant surprise.

If you love something it doesn't mean that you simply let your passion take control, I would consider that a form of lust, you usually put more time and energy into it than you do most day to day activities. That means taking your resources; passion, energy, time, finances, and putting them towards your goal. If you love a woman, do you just tell her you love her all day, think about her all the time, and look at her with a loving fondness? Fuck no, you go out, put in work, read up on her interests, and generally invest yourself into her life. It's not about you if you love something, it's about what you love. If you really care you look into everything and make sure that you are doing what's best for them and you. That means trial and error. If your girl likes a certain movie once does that mean she always wants to watch it? Maybe, but variety is the spice of life, and so is growth. I would hope that you wouldn't think that monotony and love go hand in hand.

That being said I don't think that plants love people any more than they love CO2. We are just giant CO2 producing animals, so the only real difference that a plant notices when you're in a room... get ready for this one...is that the air seems nice right then. Truly this is the only way they notice you, not by your intentions, but how your presence directly effects them. Even love is chemistry, we need to understand that love waves don't fly through the air, they are stuck moving from neuron to neuron effecting everything we say, do, and feel.

Sincerely,
ILovePlants

P.S. Yeah it's Gung Ho, not Gung Fu.
I think the OP is reffering to two different types of growers. A grower who relies more on observation rather than scientific measurements, and vice versa. Many feel it is best to garden based on how they 'feel' their plants are doing. On the other side of the spectrum, growers focus on EC, PPM, PH, etc. and make it a priority to keep all measurements ideal.

I believe the purpose of this thread is to compare and contrast the two.
 
What an interesting idea for a new thread! Of course, there are probably as many motivations for growing as there are growers. And each will have their own conceptions about why they grow... (Just as each grower will have his own conception of the terms "Love" and "Science").

I believe that most readers would agree that their pursuit of growing perfection is a subtle combination of Love, Art, and Science.

Therefore, the word we are reaching for is: "Craft".

Just as one who might brew beer, bake a cake, or build a house, a Craftsman is free to express artistry (within the constraints of the relevant science).

Because we are forced to balance so many variable factors in the grow room, in order to achieve favorable results, and we are not free to push any one of those elements too far beyond the plant's ability to cope with it, our artistry is necessarily constrained by nature - that is what makes us "Craftsmen".
 

GrowinTheDank

Active Member
What an interesting idea for a new thread! Of course, there are probably as many motivations for growing as there are growers. And each will have their own conceptions about why they grow... (Just as each grower will have his own conception of the terms "Love" and "Science").

I believe that most readers would agree that their pursuit of growing perfection is a subtle combination of Love, Art, and Science.

Therefore, the word we are reaching for is: "Craft".

Just as one who might brew beer, bake a cake, or build a house, a Craftsman is free to express artistry (within the constraints of the relevant science).

Because we are forced to balance so many variable factors in the grow room, in order to achieve favorable results, and we are not free to push any one of those elements too far beyond the plant's ability to cope with it, our artistry is necessarily constrained by nature - that is what makes us "Craftsmen".
Yes, it is not necessarily one or the other. In order to be the most successful we can in growing, we must combine both love and science with our gardens. If we truly care about our plants, and are not just in it for money, but we neglect the important scientific factors, then we will not be successful. If we care about our plants, while maintaining optimal growing conditions based on scientific measurements, then we will be successful.
 
All great points! I love topics like this one vs. all the my plant is fucked do you know why posts, lol! It's been a long day, the sun kicked my ass while working on the greenhouse garden and my help with this new 10k room seems to have vanished. Go figure, right! Bet they'll be back come harvest in two weeks, fuckers! LMAO!

ILOVEPLANTS, if you aren't female I can guarantee you pulled some serious ass at one time or another. I consider myself fairly smooth, and I'll admit if you walk your talk then you just got me "the look" from my other half...

Growingthedank, you hit it on the head with the comparision of the two, and maybe there shouldn't be comparision of the two but more of a if one makes more difference then the other. I think that's the same thing, lol! Again long day outside...

Jaimepagan,
Craft, that's epic!

W.C.C.
 

GrowinTheDank

Active Member
All great points! I love topics like this one vs. all the my plant is fucked do you know why posts, lol! It's been a long day, the sun kicked my ass while working on the greenhouse garden and my help with this new 10k room seems to have vanished. Go figure, right! Bet they'll be back come harvest in two weeks, fuckers! LMAO!

ILOVEPLANTS, if you aren't female I can guarantee you pulled some serious ass at one time or another. I consider myself fairly smooth, and I'll admit if you walk your talk then you just got me "the look" from my other half...

Growingthedank, you hit it on the head with the comparision of the two, and maybe there shouldn't be comparision of the two but more of a if one makes more difference then the other. I think that's the same thing, lol! Again long day outside...

Jaimepagan,
Craft, that's epic!

W.C.C.
The best grower would be one who loves his plants but doesn't neglect the scientific aspects required to grow top-notch stuff. That's the style I will be using personally :mrgreen:
 
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