Is The Conservative Movement Destroying The Middle Class?

I have thought so for a while now. Then Bill Maher took direct aim at the issue on his last show:

http://blog.videosift.com/video/Bill-Maher-New-Rules-Closing-July-8th-2011

click the link. I am just a dumb libertarian that cant work a confuser.

speak or forever hold your peace

Yes, clearly and undoubtedly.

LOL Republicans are 100% to blame for the terrible economy? Partisan BS, both parties are equally responsible. You don't destroy the largest economy in the world in 3 years folks, it takes generations!

You could tax every rich person 100% and you still won't even come close to paying the debt! It is unsustainable and impossible to clear!

it is the modern middle class that is destroying itself. the seeds of that destruction can be seen in the origins of what we now consider middle class to be. the very idea that laborers and common wage slaves should be considered middle class is laughable. until relatively recently, it was the extraordinary effort of creating and successfully managing a business that allowed one entry into the middle class. the trials of educating one's self, the privations one endured to gain the necessary capital needed to create industry that served the community and moved it forward and the luck of the draw were all part and parcel of entry into that realm midway between the truly wealthy and the hoi-polloi. somewhere along the way, shortly after world war two, the great lie of democracy and populist ideals took firm hold and demanded we all be allowed access to that rank. the dream of the classless society and the fantasy of equality combined to create a credit boom that assured anyone with patience a seat at the table of "the good life". that the middle class does not include a good 90% of the population is a testament to the rashness and ignorance of the common man.

all that conservatism has done is to make us all realize how foolish the idea is that we can all be middle class, that the lack of ambition of the average wage slave warrants the white picket fence, two cars in the garage and 2.4 children or more. much of our middle class is built on illusion. it is built on risk without effort, effort without ambition and ambition without talent.

all conservatism has done is confuse you and delude you into believing we can't.

your politics have been completely blinded by ideology and you defend policies which are driving us into the dirt.

how is it that for nearly 50 years there was a strong middle class comprised of everything from professionals to blue collar workers and the economy was BOOMING?? we became the envy of the world because ALL of us had better quality of life, not because of the rich few, but because of the many which weren't POOR.

this idea that there are 'workers' who should be treated as peasants and laborers who should be considered worthless trash is abobinable. it is a shame you are an american and it is because of ignorance such as yours that the rest of us fight to keep you on the fringe.

the rich minority is just that, a MINORITY.

this idea that 'the good life' is just unattainable in AMERICA is what is driving this country into irrelevancy. we must stand up against this pessimistic and UNAMERICAN point of view and show the wealthy aristocracy that this is OUR nation. WE decide how much we're worth.

redivider said:

all conservatism has done is confuse you and delude you into believing we can't.

your politics have been completely blinded by ideology and you defend policies which are driving us into the dirt.

how is it that for nearly 50 years there was a strong middle class comprised of everything from professionals to blue collar workers and the economy was BOOMING?? we became the envy of the world because ALL of us had better quality of life, not because of the rich few, but because of the many which weren't POOR.

this idea that there are 'workers' who should be treated as peasants and laborers who should be considered worthless trash is abobinable. it is a shame you are an american and it is because of ignorance such as yours that the rest of us fight to keep you on the fringe.

the rich minority is just that, a MINORITY.

this idea that 'the good life' is just unattainable in AMERICA is what is driving this country into irrelevancy. we must stand up against this pessimistic and UNAMERICAN point of view and show the wealthy aristocracy that this is OUR nation. WE decide how much we're worth.

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"A man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." -JC

tell that to the Koch brothers..... lol....

What a stupid quote to use in defense of your conservative ideals. You just quoted JC, now, lets see your possessionless life.....oh wait, you do not live life that way, you just expect other people to.....LOL. Also, No Drama, did you know that Led Zeppelin are liberals.....better change the music you like to country or christian alternative, because almost all of the worlds great artists are liberal. And, no, I do not consider Ted Nugent a great artist.....haha.

hazorazo said:

What a stupid quote to use in defense of your conservative ideals. You just quoted JC, now, lets see your possessionless life.....oh wait, you do not live life that way, you just expect other people to.....LOL. Also, No Drama, did you know that Led Zeppelin are liberals.....better change the music you like to country or christian alternative, because almost all of the worlds great artists are liberal. And, no, I do not consider Ted Nugent a great artist.....haha.

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How do you know how I live? I don't pay taxes because I haven't made a single dime in income in years my friend. My home is paid for, my vehicles are all paid for, I have zero debt, my credit score is 832. I live off my savings and power my life with solar with a large PV array I built myself, the excess I sell back and get a tax free energy conservation check every month, it pays all my property taxes. I have a large garden and know how to can and pressure cook and have 2 years of food supplies stored ( Im worse than a Mormon). You'd be amazed at what you can do when you rely on yourself. Maybe I don't have a fancy big house, maybe my 1984 GMC pickup truck is a bit old and getting rusty, she still runs good as I maintain her well. Maybe I don't have a 60 inch Big Screen with a big sound system ( I don't even own a TV as I would not watch it) a Wii, and a PS3, perhaps my vacations are spent nearby camping, fishing and enjoying family as the proceeds to go on a lavish vacation in another country is prohibitive. But I CAN tell you this, I DO know people who have all of those things in excess and not one of them is happier than me, not a one. Most are so stressed out from their jobs that they have poor health and bad attitudes and rampant divorce and arguing, their unruly children are also testament to this.

BTW the quote says nothing about nirvana being about having NO POSSESSIONS, it is a warning to not make your life about things, but relationships and knowledge. I could have very well quoted "Money can't buy me love" instead.

NoDrama said:

How do you know how I live? I don't pay taxes because I haven't made a single dime in income in years my friend. My home is paid for, my vehicles are all paid for, I have zero debt, my credit score is 832. I live off my savings and power my life with solar with a large PV array I built myself, the excess I sell back and get a tax free energy conservation check every month, it pays all my property taxes. I have a large garden and know how to can and pressure cook and have 2 years of food supplies stored ( Im worse than a Mormon). You'd be amazed at what you can do when you rely on yourself. Maybe I don't have a fancy big house, maybe my 1984 GMC pickup truck is a bit old and getting rusty, she still runs good as I maintain her well. Maybe I don't have a 60 inch Big Screen with a big sound system ( I don't even own a TV as I would not watch it) a Wii, and a PS3, perhaps my vacations are spent nearby camping, fishing and enjoying family as the proceeds to go on a lavish vacation in another country is prohibitive. But I CAN tell you this, I DO know people who have all of those things in excess and not one of them is happier than me, not a one. Most are so stressed out from their jobs that they have poor health and bad attitudes and rampant divorce and arguing, their unruly children are also testament to this.

BTW the quote says nothing about nirvana being about having NO POSSESSIONS, it is a warning to not make your life about things, but relationships and knowledge. I could have very well quoted "Money can't buy me love" instead.

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NoDrama said:

How do you know how I live? I don't pay taxes because I haven't made a single dime in income in years my friend. My home is paid for, my vehicles are all paid for, I have zero debt, my credit score is 832. I live off my savings and power my life with solar with a large PV array I built myself, the excess I sell back and get a tax free energy conservation check every month, it pays all my property taxes. I have a large garden and know how to can and pressure cook and have 2 years of food supplies stored ( Im worse than a Mormon). You'd be amazed at what you can do when you rely on yourself. Maybe I don't have a fancy big house, maybe my 1984 GMC pickup truck is a bit old and getting rusty, she still runs good as I maintain her well. Maybe I don't have a 60 inch Big Screen with a big sound system ( I don't even own a TV as I would not watch it) a Wii, and a PS3, perhaps my vacations are spent nearby camping, fishing and enjoying family as the proceeds to go on a lavish vacation in another country is prohibitive. But I CAN tell you this, I DO know people who have all of those things in excess and not one of them is happier than me, not a one. Most are so stressed out from their jobs that they have poor health and bad attitudes and rampant divorce and arguing, their unruly children are also testament to this.

BTW the quote says nothing about nirvana being about having NO POSSESSIONS, it is a warning to not make your life about things, but relationships and knowledge. I could have very well quoted "Money can't buy me love" instead.

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Oh, you have a house, a car, fishing gear, solar panels. So much for the possessionless life.

We liberals make the laws that protect you, the movies and television you watch, the music you listen to. And I doubt your solar technology would be where it is today without the work of LIBERALS. If it were up to conservatives, your home would be run by gasoline and oil, and you would be paying for it, instead of getting solar energy that pays for your property taxes.

So fun to hear you explain your life, and how much you depend on us liberals to make that life work for you.....LOL.

I find these threads interesting but they always get annoying. The Conservatives will never stop defending the interests of the super rich, they are just raised that way. Even when they are being evicted from their homes they will curse taxes that support social services.

hazorazo said:

Oh, you have a house, a car, fishing gear, solar panels. So much for the possessionless life.

We liberals make the laws that protect you, the movies and television you watch, the music you listen to. And I doubt your solar technology would be where it is today without the work of LIBERALS. If it were up to conservatives, your home would be run by gasoline and oil, and you would be paying for it, instead of getting solar energy that pays for your property taxes.

So fun to hear you explain your life, and how much you depend on us liberals to make that life work for you.....LOL.

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You must have only skimmed the first paragraph to foment your criticism as you did. I don't watch TV, I don't own one.

Who said it was ONLY liberals who made the solar panels? perhaps if you hadn't skimmed you would be aware that I built my own solar panels, all by myself from untabbed cells that were produced by a company in Arizona. That comapny is not 100% a liberal organization, in fact Im pretty sure you could find plenty of conservatives in its employ, be it on you to prove who built them and then prove his political views as liberal.

Where did I ever mention living a possession less life? Perhaps if you took the time to actually respond to what is being said than to juxtapose your own ignorance in straw man attacks and fallacious conduct, your debate would be better received.

Only Liberals make the Laws? Wow and here I thought there were Conservatives in the Congress. Must be only liberals as you have stated. Also only liberals make movies, TV, and Music. Conservatives cannot do these functions, biologically impossible?

I don't depend on anything you liberals do, you could all be wiped off the face of the earth and I would still be here. In fact I would probably be better off, as property taxes are for sure an invention of Liberals as they( or so you stated ) are responsible for everything under the sun. I could probably sell some of my excess power to a neighbor in exchange for milk from his cows. See? Better off already.

LOL!

what middle class?

UncleBuck said:

LOL!

what middle class?

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Exactly. I have come to the conclusion that there is no middle class left. Most people consider themselves middle class, but they arent. They are really just the working poor.

What is middle class?

Technically speaking its a level of income, but that income bracket hasnt changed in the last 40 years. The basic costs of living sure have. So people that fall into the "middle class" income bracket are in no way whatsoever living a "middle class" lifestyle. 99 percent of people live pay cheque to pay cheque, have no significant savings, have no stay at home parent (man or woman) to raise the family, work more than 40 hours a week, do not take a significant vacation at least once a year and are up to their eyeballs in debt.
That is the definition of how poor people live. Yet according to our tax rates and this so called "middle class" income bracket, we are not poor, we are middle class.

If I have 0 dolars I am fucking dead poor broke. If I have -260,000 dollars but I have a house and a car and a credit rating and a margarita machine I am middle class??

Maybe I should have titled this thread "Did the conservative movement kill the middle class" because as far as I can tell, its over. We need to resurect it, not stop it from dying, thats called beating a dead horse.


Its sad really. This is all a giant step backwards. The way I see it all of these "issues" and "wars" are just distractions from the only war that matters. The class war. The "War on Drugs" is just a battle front in the class war etc...

"Its class warfare. My class is winning, but we shouldnt be"
-Warren Buffet

Ignorance is at critical mass in this thread.

hazorazo said:

Oh, you have a house, a car, fishing gear, solar panels. So much for the possessionless life.

We liberals make the laws that protect you, the movies and television you watch, the music you listen to. And I doubt your solar technology would be where it is today without the work of LIBERALS. If it were up to conservatives, your home would be run by gasoline and oil, and you would be paying for it, instead of getting solar energy that pays for your property taxes.

So fun to hear you explain your life, and how much you depend on us liberals to make that life work for you.....LOL.

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You are an idiot. I really don't know how any more words could make this any more true.

serioussquirrel said:

I find these threads interesting but they always get annoying. The Conservatives will never stop defending the interests of the super rich, they are just raised that way. Even when they are being evicted from their homes they will curse taxes that support social services.

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How is being this ignorant not despised on the level of being a racist? Reasons why you are an ignorant nut:
1) I'm technically a conservative. My entire family is democrats.
2) You find it interesting until a conservative explains themselves, meaning you would rather it be a bunch of liberals doing a conservative bash session
3) Why would someone being evicted from their home have political ideals that are 100% intended to support the interests of the rich? (Seriously, do you listen to yourself)
4) If I'm so broke I'm being evicted from my house; you bet your ass I'm going to be pissed that I was taxed, because I could have probably used that money to HAVE A HOUSE, don't ya think?

Finally, why is this video given any credit? He starts by talking about the Casey Anthony trial, where the jury did it's job as defined in the US constitution. Our founding fathers wanted things like that to happen to protect the innocent. Then, he leads into how the only solution to the deficit is the rich paying taxes:

These numbers can be examined in even more depth. The 1,410,710 people who comprise the top 1% of income earners, for instance, earned $2,008,259 trillion – of which $450,926 billion went to federal income taxes. Overall, the Tax Foundation shows in this graph, the top 1% now pays more total income tax than the bottom 95%. The top 10% as a whole earned $4,227,839 trillion – of which $794,432 billion went to taxes. Of the $1,115,504 trillion of total income taxes collected, the top 10% paid nearly half. This data, updated in 2009, was calculated using income tax returns from 2007 and is the newest data available at time of writing.

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If you don't realize that spending causes the deficit, your a fucking moron. Bottom line.

I love these threads, Im a "moderate".

The way I see it is that BOTH sides are to blame. Nodrama put it right when he stated that it took alot more than 3 years to get us into this mess, it will take a long time to get out of it.
The problem is not only spending it is also revenue. When Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate than his secretary there is a problem, a problem he himself admits exists and needs to be fixed.

On the spending side there could definitely be cuts made to defense, and social programs could be streamlines to save $.

Buffet or Obama for that matter can pay in additional money to the federal government if they really wanted. Obama did say he didn't need the money and wanted to pay more. Why didn't he write a check, let him put his money where his mouth is but he won't.

https://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/notes/tom-voss-jr/open-letter-to-the-us-government-fresno-county-and-mark-bagdasarian/10150240215646244

Addy's and number to follow.